LGP Political Discussion Thread

[shafnutz05]

I believe that pittsoccer may have been thinking of Diane Watson....

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/28/ra ... e-wealthy/

I know it's a conservative columnist, but do you think I will find these comments on any mainstream sites?

[pittsoccer33]

You have his Minority Radio Station Ownership Equality Czar talking about how great a job Hugo Chavez did with the media down there (he appointed himself El Presidente for life and now runs the media) and then last week Congresswoman Maxine Waters gave this diatribe on how great it was that Fidel Castro and Che Guavara killed and exiled the Cuban property owners and then stole from them.

I will need some proof or a link about this before I form an opinion

Che Guevara and Fidel Castro murdered thousands of political opponents who disagreed with Communist rule.

http://www.kabc.com/Article.asp?id=1475675&spid=31959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, “Did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system?”

And lemme tell ya, before you say “Oh, it’s a commu–”, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know, now, you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met.

And you know, the Cuban revolution that kicked out the wealthy, Che Guevara did that, and then, after they took over, they went out among the population to find someone who could lead this new nation, and they found…well, just leave it there (laughs), an attorney by the name of Fidel Castro.

[pittsoccer33]

I believe that pittsoccer may have been thinking of Diane Watson....

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/28/ra ... e-wealthy/

I know it's a conservative columnist, but do you think I will find these comments on any mainstream sites?

Ah you're right, Maxine Waters was the one who called health care opponents neanderthals.

Heres another article about the CBC (which they are both part of) praising Castro, one the worlds worst human rights offenders.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21008.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the nonsense you get from these people on a daily basis. They think the only way to "equality" is to make everybody is as miserable as they are. Thats why the play group identity politics. Then they say some civil right has been denied, and that group demands justice, be it social, environmental, economic etc.

[shafnutz05]

EXTREMELY chilling article out of the Telegraph...the NHS is deliberately giving life-ending drugs to patients that doctors say are concealing signs of recovery. In any system that demand is far higher than supply, rationing will be necessary. And rationing inevitably leads to cost control measures...scary stuff.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... e-NHS.html

[PensFanInDC]

http://www.kabc.com/Article.asp?id=1475675&spid=31959

It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, “Did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system?”

And lemme tell ya, before you say “Oh, it’s a commu–”, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know, now, you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met.

And you know, the Cuban revolution that kicked out the wealthy, Che Guevara did that, and then, after they took over, they went out among the population to find someone who could lead this new nation, and they found…well, just leave it there (laughs), an attorney by the name of Fidel Castro.

Well, that is indeed rather interesting.

[Geezer]

You have his Minority Radio Station Ownership Equality Czar talking about how great a job Hugo Chavez did with the media down there (he appointed himself El Presidente for life and now runs the media) and then last week Congresswoman Maxine Waters gave this diatribe on how great it was that Fidel Castro and Che Guavara killed and exiled the Cuban property owners and then stole from them.

I will need some proof or a link about this before I form an opinion

Che Guevara and Fidel Castro murdered thousands of political opponents who disagreed with Communist rule.

http://www.kabc.com/Article.asp?id=1475675&spid=31959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, “Did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system?”

And lemme tell ya, before you say “Oh, it’s a commu–”, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know, now, you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met.

And you know, the Cuban revolution that kicked out the wealthy, Che Guevara did that, and then, after they took over, they went out among the population to find someone who could lead this new nation, and they found…well, just leave it there (laughs), an attorney by the name of Fidel Castro.

Stalin killed over 10 million by most estimates and imprisoned millions more. Much of the Russian infrastructure was built by prison slave labor. For the greater good of course.

[Guinness]

Stalin killed over 10 million by most estimates and imprisoned millions more. Much of the Russian infrastructure was built by prison slave labor. For the greater good of course.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I believe that Stalin murdered many more millions than that.

[Fast B]

He's got his pal, the terrorist, Bill Ayers

You betcha.

[PensFanInDC]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ical-time/

About Obama's Green Czar

He also has consistently leaned on racially charged language, pointing the finger at "white polluters and the white environmentalists" for "steering poison" to minority communities, as he makes the case for lifting up low-income and minority communities with better environmental policy

Nothing wrong with the last part of that sentence.

A declared "communist" during the 1990s, Jones once associated with a group that looked to Mao Zedong as an inspiration.

Originally from Tennessee, Jones graduated from Yale Law School in 1993. But his life took a turn after he was swept up in arrests during a rally following the Rodney King verdict.

Jones has claimed he was monitoring police activity at the time, but that he met people in jail who changed his thinking.

"I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was like, 'This is what I need to be a part of,'" he said in a 2005 interview with the East Bay Express. Jones told the newspaper he stayed in San Francisco, and for the next 10 years worked with a lot of the people he met in jail. Months after the King verdict came down, Jones said, "I was a communist."

I have no problem with him doing "police monitoring" during the King riots at all. I just wanted the last quote to be in context.

[PensFanInDC]

oops...

[pittsoccer33]

Yep and thats exactly the kind of people Obama wants in his administration. That kind of language sounds like it's out of either a Black Panther Rally or Reverend Wright's racist church.

[Ron`]

Quit worrying about political parties or images... stick to the facts. Here's one that they haven't been able to brown number yet....

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic ... 22&sp=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Food stamps, it may be the last true image of the situation....

[DelPen]

So I goto the medical clinic that is in CVS today to get me and my family flu shots. While we are waiting I check out the prices for other services. $62 for any type of check up. $30 for a physical. Between $30 and $120 for different vaccines. The flu vaccine was $30. All of these prices were if you didn't have insurance. Now if everyone had to pay these costs in lieu of co-pays this would stop people from abusing the system and should also bring insurance costs down.

[Ron`]

Delpen, I think what you are saying is that those that have insurance already fund those that don't price wise. Correct me if I am wrong.

[DelPen]

Delpen, I think what you are saying is that those that have insurance already fund those that don't price wise. Correct me if I am wrong.

That and a doctor charges a lot more than $62 to your insurance company for a wellnes visit and then they negotiate the price down but you never know because all you have is a $20 copay.

I am still in the camp that thinks insurance is for emergencies and things that are out of the norm. If the consumer actually had to pay the true costs they would shop around and there would be competition.

[pittsoccer33]

Delpen, I think what you are saying is that those that have insurance already fund those that don't price wise. Correct me if I am wrong.

That and a doctor charges a lot more than $62 to your insurance company for a wellnes visit and then they negotiate the price down but you never know because all you have is a $20 copay.

I am still in the camp that thinks insurance is for emergencies and things that are out of the norm. If the consumer actually had to pay the true costs they would shop around and there would be competition.

But there again, you have the government, be it federal or state, mandating the things that must be covered.

[dagny]

Delpen, I think what you are saying is that those that have insurance already fund those that don't price wise. Correct me if I am wrong.

That and a doctor charges a lot more than $62 to your insurance company for a wellnes visit and then they negotiate the price down but you never know because all you have is a $20 copay.

I am still in the camp that thinks insurance is for emergencies and things that are out of the norm. If the consumer actually had to pay the true costs they would shop around and there would be competition.

[Shyster]

So I goto the medical clinic that is in CVS today to get me and my family flu shots. While we are waiting I check out the prices for other services. $62 for any type of check up...

Pretty cheap if you think about it. An oil change down at Jiffy Lube costs $20. A medical checkup from a NP or PA is only three times that?

(Note: not referring to you DelPen from this point out)
I don't understand the public perception that health care should be cheap. People need surgery or emergency care and take a fit when the bill comes out to thousands of dollars. Why shouldn't it? Doctors are some of the most heavily educated and trained workers on earth (yes, much more than lawyers, I'll admit).

Say we have someone who wants to be a physician. Well, she needs to go to college for 4 years, take the MCAT with a high score, go to med school for 4 years, then internship, then residency for 2-7 years (maybe a fellowship too), then study for, take, and pass her boards (and renew them every few years). Don't forget continuing education requirements. A top med school can easily run $200,000 for 4 years in terms of tuition alone, and when you factor in all the time and effort that other people spend on training a new doctor (doctors train doctors), she probably represents an investment well in excess of $1 million. Somebody really advanced like a neurosurgeon, vascular surgeon, invasive oncologist, transplant surgeon, etc. probably blows way past $1 million in terms of total investment. Plus, we're talking about some of the most rigorous, intellectually demanding training and schooling out there. The group of people who are smart and motivated enough successfully complete all of the foregoing probably comprises less than 1% of the total population, maybe way less. Why shouldn't it cost big bucks to utilize their services?

[pittsoccer33]

Its just such a scary road. We have people without health coverage? No problem, we'll nationalize it and let the government handle it. People going hungry? We'll nationalize the farms, turn them into collectives. People without homes? We'll nationalize property too, just like the Soviets did. This is why people are scared. The New Deal started to take responsibility away from people for the outcomes of their lives and put it on the federal government. The Great Society incresed that. Now we have all of this progressive lunacy.

Obama wants to run it all just like Chavez does. He says he doesnt. He says "I don't want to run a car company" and then fires GM's CEO and lays out his plans for running the company. If these marxists get the chance they'll nationalize all banks, the electric industry, the oil industry, the pharmeceutical industry, all the hospitals, and anything else they want to in the name of social and economic justice, as if equal outcomes and equal misery are somehow promised in the Constitution.

[profpolisci]

Pretty cheap if you think about it. An oil change down at Jiffy Lube costs $20. A medical checkup from a NP or PA is only three times that?

(Note: not referring to you DelPen from this point out)
I don't understand the public perception that health care should be cheap. People need surgery or emergency care and take a fit when the bill comes out to thousands of dollars. Why shouldn't it? Doctors are some of the most heavily educated and trained workers on earth (yes, much more than lawyers, I'll admit).

Say we have someone who wants to be a physician. Well, she needs to go to college for 4 years, take the MCAT with a high score, go to med school for 4 years, then internship, then residency for 2-7 years (maybe a fellowship too), then study for, take, and pass her boards (and renew them every few years). Don't forget continuing education requirements. A top med school can easily run $200,000 for 4 years in terms of tuition alone, and when you factor in all the time and effort that other people spend on training a new doctor (doctors train doctors), she probably represents an investment well in excess of $1 million. Somebody really advanced like a neurosurgeon, vascular surgeon, invasive oncologist, transplant surgeon, etc. probably blows way past $1 million in terms of total investment. Plus, we're talking about some of the most rigorous, intellectually demanding training and schooling out there. The group of people who are smart and motivated enough successfully complete all of the foregoing probably comprises less than 1% of the total population, maybe way less. Why shouldn't it cost big bucks to utilize their services?

I've long thought that you'd have to pay me a large sum of money to stick a catheter or a colonoscope up anyone's you knows.
You left out litigious insurance. Drives the cost right over the moon.

[DelPen]

I am getting extremely fed up with Biden going out and trying to say the stimulus is working beyond expectations. Unemployment went up to 9.7% and again, that number does not include people who's benefits ran out and those who quit the work force. How can this guy go out and say they are saving jobs when in reality what the administration said would happen and what did happen is a difference of 4.2 million jobs that have been lost, not created or not saved since the bill was passed in February. If you want to believe that this crap bill actually did save or create jobs, and if they did they were all government jobs, then the economy is in far worse shape because the private sector is bleeding worse than the numbers show.

How anyone can say with a straight face that this has not been a complete failure and then goes further to say it's been succesful beyond expectations amazes me.

[pittsoccer33]

How anyone can say with a straight face that this has not been a complete failure and then goes further to say it's been succesful beyond expectations amazes me.

Its not a failure, it's doing exactly what it was designed to do ie waste taxpayer dollars on political pet projects. If they wanted to stimulate the economy they would have A) eliminated all payroll taxes for 2 or 3 months, and/or B) cut capital gains taxes, lowered the corporate rate and eliminate the double taxation of dividends.

[pittsoccer33]

Thankfully this morning Van Jones is no longer working as an employee paid by the American tax payer, unelected by voters and unaccountable to them as well. NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NYTimes, Wash Post etc were all absent in covering this story as it unfolded this week. A blogger from the middle of nowhere is the one who got to the bottom of all this.

When people ask me why I think Obama supports racists, radicals, and Marxists, I point to how Valerie Jarrett and Obama glowingly bragged about hiring this guy all while hoping nobody would bother looking into his background.

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[Tico Rick]

Dang. How are we ever going to achieve socialism without Van Jones.

[DelPen]

Dang. How are we ever going to achieve socialism without Van Jones.

Oh don't you worry, there's still Adolfo Carrion, Carol Browner, Vivek Kundra, Nancy DeParle, John Holdren, Cass Sunstein and Mark Lloyd to expose and have them resign.

The funny thing is all the green jobs Van Jones created have now been terminated, a total of one. You would have figured that after 7 months and $30 billion at his disposal he would have done something useful.