"It's one of the most arrogant organizations in the league."

[Realist]

""It's one of the most arrogant organizations in the league." - John Tortorella - 2012 - refering to Pittsburgh Penguins.

As much as we hate to admit it gang - Torts was right about this.

As a lifelong Pens fan, I was soo happy we won the cup in 2009 reminding me of my childhood with the 91 and 92 cups.

The Pens reloaded with youth and speed (and added in Crosby/Malkin in top shape) and a prime Phil Kessel and went back to back in 16 and 17 for championships.

But -- the arrogance -- is apparerent and started to bleed in.

Lets look at the Pens history since that 17 cup in coaching and management:

17-18 - lost in 2nd round to Caps (eventual SC Champs) - no beef.
18-19 - lost in 1st rd (0-4 sweep by Isles) - the dominos start to fall
19-20 - lost 1-3 to Canadians - very bad loss to a team that shouldn't have been there aside from Covid Season Antics. Any other team would take major steps. The Pens? They fired Sergei Gonchar, Jacques Martin and Mark Recchi to show the "fans" they did something. Laughable. Also they took Covid PPE loans as Ron Burkle bought Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch for 22 million dollars.
20-21 - lost 2- 4 to Isles (This is were the arrogance becomes overly apparent by making hardly any changes
21-22 - lost to Rangers in playoffs after having a 3-1 series lead.
22-23 - didn't make playoffs. Aside from karlson aquisition, no major infusion of youth/speed.
23-24 - wheels fall off completly.

Looking back the arrogance made them:

1) Refusal to trade and keep an element of youth/speed and kept non-key players around too long.
2) With slowing of team above: Keeping the same aggresive forecheck/D man pinch system season after season
3) Not replacing Hornquist for net front presence on the power play.

Yes - age catches up to champions. I'm not stating that the Pens would be champs or won another cup since 17. But, I can argue that they would have been in a mucn better position and their current situation didn't have to be this way.

You can't live off past success forever. Teams need to adapt. The Pens never did. Most likely due to "arrogance" that Torts referenced way back when.

[KG]

Speaking of Torts. He got suspended 2 games and fined $50K for his show he did on the bench yesterday. Flyers ownership said they will pay the fine.

[pens_CT]

Arrogant is Torts getting paid to coach when his teams have done little over the past 20 years. Not bad, act like an ahole behind the bench and people keep hiring you.

[penny lane]

After the sweep by the isles, Murray and Sullivan should have been gone.

I never took their success for granted.

[Realist]

I love how the replies to this are about Torts. Torts might be a POS, but the evidence behind his statement from 2012 rings true.

Lets focus on that. LOL

[Durbano]

So Torts made the comment, the Pens subsequently (eventually) won two more Cups, and then a few years later the alleged arrogance surfaces. Around a decade after the original comment. Got it.

[DelPen]

Torts gave a **** take that was **** at the time and is still ****. This isn’t arrogance, it’s incompetence.

[Three Stars]

I love how the replies to this are about Torts. Torts might be a POS, but the evidence behind his statement from 2012 rings true.

Lets focus on that. LOL

That should tell you something about your statement. You do tend to only show up to drop these manifestos and vanish, so I think people are used to that.

[Realist]

So Torts made the comment, the Pens subsequently (eventually) won two more Cups, and then a few years later the alleged arrogance surfaces. Around a decade after the original comment. Got it.

I'm confused as to were the 2 cups abstain the Pens from organizational arrogance? You can be a Stanley Cup winner and be arrogant.

I agree it took several years of incidence (PPE loan, only firing asst coaches, kept playing the same style that wasn't working, etc) before it came clear to damn near everyone.

[Daniel]

So Torts made the comment, the Pens subsequently (eventually) won two more Cups, and then a few years later the alleged arrogance surfaces. Around a decade after the original comment. Got it.

Which part is arrogant, the GM, ownership, players, coach? Does the arrogance get passed down to how many GMs, owners, and coaches? Is Sid Crosby arrogant?

I understand the comment, and even the discussion if it's warranted. However, with the coaching changes, ownership changes, GM changes, it's hard to agree with the premise. Maybe each leadership has an arrogance clause to their contract (ie we like the money behind the sale but you just aren't arrogant enough)? Maybe it's the jersey? Oh wait, Penguins themselves are arrogant (I once got bit by one of those arrogant things). Nevermind, Torts is right, it's the penguin logo.

I will agree this franchise had/had swagger, but what winning franchises don't?

[Realist]

So Torts made the comment, the Pens subsequently (eventually) won two more Cups, and then a few years later the alleged arrogance surfaces. Around a decade after the original comment. Got it.

Which part is arrogant, the GM, ownership, players, coach? Does the arrogance get passed down to how many GMs, owners, and coaches? Is Sid Crosby arrogant?

I understand the comment, and even the discussion if it's warranted. However, with the coaching changes, ownership changes, GM changes, it's hard to agree with the premise. Maybe each leadership has an arrogance clause to their contract (ie we like the money behind the sale but you just aren't arrogant enough)? Maybe it's the jersey? Oh wait, Penguins themselves are arrogant (I once got bit by one of those arrogant things). Nevermind, Torts is right, it's the penguin logo.

I will agree this franchise had/had swagger, but what winning franchises don't?

I kind of laid out which parts via the incidents above there buddy. Does everyone in the organization have to be arrogant? No. Does evidence suggest that the Pens, as an organization, are arrogant? Why yes!! Yes it does!!

[Three Stars]

Cameron “Arrow” Gaunce won the Stanley Cup with the Penguins in 2017.

[Daniel]

So Torts made the comment, the Pens subsequently (eventually) won two more Cups, and then a few years later the alleged arrogance surfaces. Around a decade after the original comment. Got it.

Which part is arrogant, the GM, ownership, players, coach? Does the arrogance get passed down to how many GMs, owners, and coaches? Is Sid Crosby arrogant?

I understand the comment, and even the discussion if it's warranted. However, with the coaching changes, ownership changes, GM changes, it's hard to agree with the premise. Maybe each leadership has an arrogance clause to their contract (ie we like the money behind the sale but you just aren't arrogant enough)? Maybe it's the jersey? Oh wait, Penguins themselves are arrogant (I once got bit by one of those arrogant things). Nevermind, Torts is right, it's the penguin logo.

I will agree this franchise had/had swagger, but what winning franchises don't?

I kind of laid out which parts via the incidents above there buddy. Does everyone in the organization have to be arrogant? No. Does evidence suggest that the Pens, as an organization, are arrogant? Why yes!! Yes it does!!

I read your incidents above, which started 5 years after the Torts comment (maybe he can tell the future?). What you failed to mention is the commonality that creates said arrogance, other than the team name which is an inanimate object and can't be arrogant. Since the 2012 comment we've seen 2 ownership groups, what 3 coaches and GMs (really don't feel like looking it up) and a lot of player turnover? If you want to make the argument that Sid, Kris, Geno are arrogant and influence the rest of the organization, I'd respectfully disagree.

Your examples are more about a bad coach and stagnation than an arrogant organization. For that I will agree since those years pretty much had the same leadership, up until last year.

[Pens4Life]

This doesnt make sense.. 2012 statement to what happened in between then and now!? Major changes and also SC won..

[Puck-Lurker]

What he said is relevant how?

As pointed out, after the statement, Pens won back to back cups and then got old, decayed and eventually it all broke into what we have now. Hate to break it, but that's fairly normal for sports teams everywhere. Get a success team, keep running the old horse until it can't go anymore and realise you've tried to keep on going for too long. It's a tale as old as time.

I'll not attribute to malice, what can as easily be attributed to stupidity. There has been quite some incompetence going on for a while now.

And even if we granted the premise, which I don't, that the Pens are the most arrogant organisation, so what? I bet they wish in Toronto they'd been arrogant since 2012 and won a few cups? I dunno man. Don't see why this is relevant today.

[Realist]

5th graders on LGP.com:

1) "They can't be arrogant!! They won 2 Stanley Cups after Torts statement in 2012!!!"

2) The organization as a whole isn't arrogant, you are only talking the coaches, players, and former ownership group.

I ummm. Give up.

[Three Stars]