Jake to Carolina

[Maestro]

See, now we know the trade wasn’t so bad.

The Penguins have been terrible at finishing the last few seasons. So what do they do? Get some more Finnish in the organization.

Next up: better forecheck.

We've got Zohorna and Svejkovsky... so two more to get to our four Czechs.


(I'll see myself out)

[Guinness]

Yeah, as I said earlier today Koivunen gives me some optimism about our new young guys ..

I don't get why no love for Cruz Lucius - not only an awesome name, the kid is straight cash for Wisconsin. All the knocks against him (skating) and his 3rd line projection is the same as it was with Jake.

I can't remember which article I read it in now, but it said he was injured during his draft, which is probably why he slipped to the 4th round. But as I posted earlier in the thread, he's been a point-per-game guy as a freshman and sophomore for a Wisconsin team that's currently ranked #5 in the country. It's hard for young guys to come in and really light it up right from the get-go at those big hockey schools.

Yes and Wisconsin coaching is pretty highly regarded with ties to Pens organization. I'm bullish. I think KD put in place step 1 of "getting younger".

Well they gave us Badger Bob, so I trust Wisconsin.

For hockey that is... otherwise I do NOT trust Wisconsin.

[KG]

Totally forgot that Jake is on IR. I was like why isn’t Jake playing today? He’s at the arena with his Pens gear bag.

[KG]

Did anyone see PK Subban between periods of the Devils/Canes game? Really a joke. He put on a pair of glasses and mocked Dubas. Saying if I put glasses on can I be a GM etc.

Basically bashing him for "doing this" to Sid.

[Badger Bob]

[BigMcK]

Having watched that, he is saying everything that a good majority of posters here have said, with the difference being that it wasn't a poster here saying it.

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

[Three Stars]

I’ve said this before, but this fan base has never really experienced the organic decline and fall of a competitive roster before. 2001 was a financial collapse because they couldn’t afford any of the good players that didn’t simultaneously own the team, so we never actually saw the good players turn to dust.

It doesn’t explain all of the histrionics, but it’s a significant part of it.

[Three Stars]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

[BigMcK]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Understand all of that. The core remains intact, and that comes at a cost, probably best saved for another discussion.

My comments come from watching the clip and how he summarized the situation from being a fan of Sid, not a fan of Dubas. Dubas should take away from the trade that Penguins fans (add Steelers fans into the mix) are a passionate lot, and listen to the fans regarding the head coach.

I agree to your comment about blowing it up when it needed to be. It needed to be.

[Three Stars]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Understand all of that. The core remains intact, and that comes at a cost, probably best saved for another discussion.

My comments come from watching the clip and how he summarized the situation from being a fan of Sid, not a fan of Dubas. Dubas should take away from the trade that Penguins fans (add Steelers fans into the mix) are a passionate lot, and listen to the fans regarding the head coach.

I agree to your comment about blowing it up when it needed to be. It needed to be.

No competent organization listens to its fans for organizational decisions. Fans have the benefit of being emotional over every damn thing, and the flaw of thinking they know what’s actually going on.

You know, if various reports are correct and Hextall was indeed ordered by the Lemieux regime to disassemble the team, and he was actually allowed to do so by FSG, we would have been having very different conversations about the last few seasons.

[Southern Fan]

Vancouver were sellers last year and they fired their coach. They went on a nice run after the trade deadline and have been one of the best teams this year. I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

[KG]

Vancouver were sellers last year and they fired their coach. They went on a nice run after the trade deadline and have been one of the best teams this year. I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

Agreed. I think first a new coach needs to be brought in and Dubas needs to bring some legit offensive depth to this team, preferably younger. They can certainly be a playoff contender next year. The East is far from a juggernaut after a few teams.

[Three Stars]

There’s an article on the Athletic talking about deadline winners. It summarizes the process of Guentzel going to the Canes.

The Canes didn’t “meaningfully engage” with Pittsburgh until Wednesday morning. There had been conversations prior to that of an informal nature, but KD made it clear that he was waiting to see how things played out before deciding to move Jake.

The Wednesday morning conversation was Don Waddell calling KD. KD then asked DW to put a list of prospects together, making it clear that he wasn’t all that interested in picks, and that Dubas was aware of Carolina’s surplus of prospects. DW had reached out because of the reports of the possible 3 way deal involving the Canucks and the Bruins, so apparently that was really a thing for at least a little while.

Waddell had to add to his offer to close the deal, but after communicating his hypothetically final offer he had to wait several hours into Thursday night before hearing back from KD that it was time to “proceed”. Thus, they had a deal.

[KG]

[Tico Rick]

I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

I wonder who like that might be available?

[Pitts]

I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

I wonder who like that might be available?

I think I sorted this right: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free ... alie-stats

Anyhoo - give me one of (maybe two):
Sam Reinhart
Jake DeBrusk
Max Domi
Sean Monahan
Anthony Mantha
Teuvo Teräväinen
Jack Roslovic
Warren Foegele
Anthony Duclair
Jonathan Drouin

There's a few more on that list I'd consider.

[lemieuxReturns]

I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

I wonder who like that might be available?

I think I sorted this right: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free ... alie-stats

Anyhoo - give me one of (maybe two):
Sam Reinhart
Jake DeBrusk
Max Domi
Sean Monahan
Anthony Mantha
Teuvo Teräväinen
Jack Roslovic
Warren Foegele
Anthony Duclair
Jonathan Drouin

There's a few more on that list I'd consider.

None of these guys. All of these guys are day 1 UFA signings. You need a list of players that will be available in late September.

[Pitts]

The Pens can't sign anyone on Day 1?

[Three Stars]

The Pens can't sign anyone on Day 1?

Correct, out of spite.

[Guinness]

I guess a retool can work if Dubas is spending May searching for a new coach and he can find a 29 year old UFA winger for Sid.

I wonder who like that might be available?

I think I sorted this right: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free ... alie-stats

Anyhoo - give me one of (maybe two):
Sam Reinhart
Jake DeBrusk
Max Domi
Sean Monahan
Anthony Mantha
Teuvo Teräväinen
Jack Roslovic
Warren Foegele
Anthony Duclair
Jonathan Drouin

There's a few more on that list I'd consider.

From that list, I'd take DeBrusk, please and thank you.

That said, I'd probably prefer something a little more creative that ends up moving more cap out. Who that would be, I don't really know,

[Guinness]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

YES. It can be done, but it's a sticky wicket, that.

[quote}Understand all of that. The core remains intact, and that comes at a cost, probably best saved for another discussion.

My comments come from watching the clip and how he summarized the situation from being a fan of Sid, not a fan of Dubas. Dubas should take away from the trade that Penguins fans (add Steelers fans into the mix) are a passionate lot, and listen to the fans regarding the head coach.

I agree to your comment about blowing it up when it needed to be. It needed to be.

No competent organization listens to its fans for organizational decisions. Fans have the benefit of being emotional over every damn thing, and the flaw of thinking they know what’s actually going on.

You know, if various reports are correct and Hextall was indeed ordered by the Lemieux regime to disassemble the team, and he was actually allowed to do so by FSG, we would have been having very different conversations about the last few seasons.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised that Subban is a fan of Sid after Sid bashed his head into the ice for a little while in the '17 Cup final. There's competitiveness, and then there's just being a dick (and I have NO problem with Sid doing that, quite frankly. Just glad he didn't get a whistle

[Maestro]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Absolutely. Change is hard. It does happen to every team. But they have "retooled" 6 straight years. No change to the downward spiral. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again expecting different results may not be insanity, but at this point it sure isn't prudent.

[Three Stars]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Absolutely. Change is hard. It does happen to every team. But they have "retooled" 6 straight years. No change to the downward spiral. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again expecting different results may not be insanity, but at this point it sure isn't prudent.

That’s a very spoiled view of what happened. “They didn’t win so they mustn’t have done anything!” The problem with that view is that it ignores the management changes, the roster turnover as well as the line and tactics changes that have continued even through this season. If you don’t see them because you don’t want to see them then I have no real answer for you.

There’s a dirty little secret when you’re trying to be a competitive team. Only one team wins, and there’s no guarantee that it happens to your team. All they can do is give themselves a chance to win. Doesn’t mean it’s a good chance or that it’ll definitely work, but that’s all you can ever expect. Sometimes good teams lose in the first round. Sometimes wild cards go to the Cup final. There’s a version of the Penguins’ history in which they win no Cups. Sometimes teams that win back to back Cups fail to sustain their momentum.

This fanbase needs to suck it up. This whole “poor us, we haven’t won since 2017, what a terrible team” nonsense is just pathetic.

[pekkasteele]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Absolutely. Change is hard. It does happen to every team. But they have "retooled" 6 straight years. No change to the downward spiral. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again expecting different results may not be insanity, but at this point it sure isn't prudent.

That’s a very spoiled view of what happened. “They didn’t win so they mustn’t have done anything!” The problem with that view is that it ignores the management changes, the roster turnover as well as the line and tactics changes that have continued even through this season. If you don’t see them because you don’t want to see them then I have no real answer for you.

There’s a dirty little secret when you’re trying to be a competitive team. Only one team wins, and there’s no guarantee that it happens to your team. All they can do is give themselves a chance to win. Doesn’t mean it’s a good chance or that it’ll definitely work, but that’s all you can ever expect. Sometimes good teams lose in the first round. Sometimes wild cards go to the Cup final. There’s a version of the Penguins’ history in which they win no Cups. Sometimes teams that win back to back Cups fail to sustain their momentum.

This fanbase needs to suck it up. This whole “poor us, we haven’t won since 2017, what a terrible team” nonsense is just pathetic.

Yes, sure, a good team can lose in the first round, but a good team don't lose in the 1st round or miss the playoffs for 6 straight years. Participation medals is not counted as success.

[Guinness]

GMKD is the devil who took away the heart of the great Sidney Crosby, and will be remembered as such.

You realize that not ripping the heart out of the great Sidney Crosby was the primary reason why Letang and Malkin were kept around, right? They gave it a go, and it didn’t go. So now here we are.

I think that “extending the competitive window” and “retooling on the fly” are two of the biggest lies in sports. If it’s time to blow it up, blow it up.

Absolutely. Change is hard. It does happen to every team. But they have "retooled" 6 straight years. No change to the downward spiral. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again expecting different results may not be insanity, but at this point it sure isn't prudent.

That’s a very spoiled view of what happened. “They didn’t win so they mustn’t have done anything!” The problem with that view is that it ignores the management changes, the roster turnover as well as the line and tactics changes that have continued even through this season. If you don’t see them because you don’t want to see them then I have no real answer for you.

There’s a dirty little secret when you’re trying to be a competitive team. Only one team wins, and there’s no guarantee that it happens to your team. All they can do is give themselves a chance to win. Doesn’t mean it’s a good chance or that it’ll definitely work, but that’s all you can ever expect. Sometimes good teams lose in the first round. Sometimes wild cards go to the Cup final. There’s a version of the Penguins’ history in which they win no Cups. Sometimes teams that win back to back Cups fail to sustain their momentum.

This fanbase needs to suck it up. This whole “poor us, we haven’t won since 2017, what a terrible team” nonsense is just pathetic.

Yeah, I don't agree with the idea that trading Jake was the wrong move. I think it was definitely the tough choice that a GM has to have the stones to make. I could have liked the return a little more, but the market is the market.

That said, I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a fan base that roots for a team that has had at least 2 generational talent on the roster to expect to have won more than one playoff round since 2017. That's a lot of time for this roster, and more importantly a lot of squandered years for Sid and Geno, etc.

Sullivan should have been sent packing at least 3 years ago. When you're running a business, those who hesitate lose. It's well past time and if he starts the season next year as head coach, I'll be out on KD. And I don't hate Sully. He's just passed his expiration date. That's all.