Jake to Carolina

[KG]

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/pengu ... m_medium=x

Figured it deserves its own thread. It's hard to win a trade when you're trading the best player. Hopefully these prospects turn into something. Bunting I actually like as he has some snarl and skill. But not a thrilling return all in all.

How hard Dubas worked on this, you have to believe that this was the best out there. And oh yeah, forget about these "insiders"!

[dark_forces]

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/pengu ... m_medium=x

Figured it deserves its own thread. It's hard to win a trade when you're trading the best player. Hopefully these prospects turn into something. Bunting I actually like as he has some snarl and skill. But not a thrilling return all in all.

How hard Dubas worked on this, you have to believe that this was the best out there. And oh yeah, forget about these "insiders"!

At least, with these prospects, they're further along in their developmental curves, so it's less of a crap shoot than getting a bunch of picks and hoping some pan out. You have to figure at least one works out and becomes a legit contributing NHLer.

[FLPensFan]

Really trying to hold back on how awful this deal is. I can keep going in circles on this all night, but I'll leave with these brief thoughts:

1) Nobody acquired is better than Yager, Pickering, or Blomqvist.

2) Bad market, UFA or not. Dubas just took our best trade chip to the 12th-15th ranked system and didn't walk away with anything in their top 5.

3) This is Beech, Sivek, Lupashuk level of return

4) I give this trade a D- for the simple fact that Dubas didn't let him walk for nothing.

I'll leave with the kicker, courtesy of CapFriendly (you can expect Smith or Eller to be moved in the next 17 hours)

[KBone]

Hard to believe they didn't get a hard 1st rounder.

[Puck-Lurker]

Hard to believe they didn't get a hard 1st rounder.

That condition will never be met. I figure there's about 10% chance they win the east? We got.. something... I'm betting we won't see Jake again in a Pens jersey

[Pens4Life]

Really trying to hold back on how awful this deal is. I can keep going in circles on this all night, but I'll leave with these brief thoughts:

1) Nobody acquired is better than Yager, Pickering, or Blomqvist.

2) Bad market, UFA or not. Dubas just took our best trade chip to the 12th-15th ranked system and didn't walk away with anything in their top 5.

3) This is Beech, Sivek, Lupashuk level of return

4) I give this trade a D- for the simple fact that Dubas didn't let him walk for nothing.

I'll leave with the kicker, courtesy of CapFriendly (you can expect Smith or Eller to be moved in the next 17 hours)

I agree with you, dissapointing return.. I would prefer Bunting, one top 3 prospects and pick! Quality over quantity..

We shall see how those young guys develop.. Koivunen actually has good numbers in Finnish elite league for a young guy. He need to bulk up a bit,skinny dude, not small tho..

Ponomarev maybe develops into cheap 4th line C, energetic all over the place guy..

Lucius similar potential, energetic bottom 6 player, forchecking guy

[Antonio]

Frankly that's embarrassing. I find it hard to believe they couldn't have done better than that honestly. So, you got 4 nobodies and a 2nd round pick for a genuine elite 1st line winger with a proven playoff record plus retaining 25%? Wow.

[Guinness]

Let's just keep dropping in the standings, get to the best possible draft pick we can, fire the entire coaching staff in the off-season, trade anyone else who'll net us pics/prospects, and fire up the bus again next year.

[DelPen]

This does feel like quantity over quality. The hope was always current young roster player, a top prospect and a 1st and we got none of that. We are also pushing the contract limit again and needed to deal Ty Smith to help make that work.

[DelPen]

Really trying to hold back on how awful this deal is. I can keep going in circles on this all night, but I'll leave with these brief thoughts:

1) Nobody acquired is better than Yager, Pickering, or Blomqvist.

2) Bad market, UFA or not. Dubas just took our best trade chip to the 12th-15th ranked system and didn't walk away with anything in their top 5.

3) This is Beech, Sivek, Lupashuk level of return

4) I give this trade a D- for the simple fact that Dubas didn't let him walk for nothing.

I'll leave with the kicker, courtesy of CapFriendly (you can expect Smith or Eller to be moved in the next 17 hours)

AHL roster freeze is today, Gruden, Koppanen and Puustinen were going to be sent down regardless but they make a combined $2.325 million. So if DOC and Rust are both still out this weekend we might need to play 10 F and 7 D before we can call someone up. Bizarre we had to retain in addition to not getting guaranteed 1st or one of the Canes top 3 prospects when the math said we couldn’t do that.

[Toke]

I thought Hextall was fired?

[DelPen]

The comparisons to the Jagr trade are semi-accurate if we would have also got Glen Metropolit back in the trade too.

[KG]

Pens were never going to win a Jake trade, especially since he was a rental. DK on his pod said you should have just signed Jake. DK, you can't coerce the player to sign here! He wanted to go to free agency, or go to a contender. Not sure why that's hard to understand.

The return on the trade is underwhelming. If we were taking Bunting back we should have gotten a 1st round pick and top 3 prospect. Always prefer quality over quantity in a trade.

Just hope we didn't trade Jake for Bunting and 3 Bemstroms...

That said, the team needs to sack up. Last nights performance during the game and in the locker room post game was embarrassing. This team needs a culture change and wakeup call.

Hopefully KD moves out a few more today.

[DelPen]

Since the Canes don’t have an AHL affiliate Ty Smith is being loaned back to WBS for the rest of the season.

[largegarlic]

I've never seen any of the 3 prospects from Carolina play, but just looking at their stats and trying to be optimistic, I am a bit intrigued by Koivunen and Lucius. Koivunen seems to have made a big jump this year in terms of production in the Finnish league. He went from 28 points in 52 games last year to 55 points in 57 games this year and is 6th in the league in scoring. That seems pretty good for a 20-year-old and is the sort of late-teen/early-20s jump you'd like to see if a guy is going to have NHL potential.

Lucius had 34 points in 34 games last year as a freshman for a very good college team at Wisconsin and has 31 points in 32 games this year as a sophomore. He's only 19 too (though he turns 20 in a few weeks). That also seems pretty good to me. I feel like quite a few guys enter college a year or two later and are 19-20 as freshmen. But he was a point-per-game guy as a "true" 18-year-old freshman.

Also, I saw in the official Pens' statement in the original post that the Pens have other prospects on each guy's teams--Laatsch at Wisconsin and Pieniemi at Karpat. So, I wonder if the Pens felt like they had a bit of an inside scoop on these guys, since they were presumably checking in these teams to watch the guys they already had on them.

I'm a little less enthused about Ponomarev. He's about to turn 22, only has gotten into 2 NHL games, and has good, not great, stats in the AHL. I know Carolina has been a good team the past few years, but you'd think if he did have a higher upside, he would have gotten a bit more of a run with the big club, even if just filling in for injured guys. Again, just speculating based on very little info, but my gut feeling is that his upside is more bottom-6 or even just NHL/AHL tweener.

[Badger Bob]

So, for the playoffs, I guess we're cheering for the Canes?

GO CANES!!!

[Ohio_Pens_fan]

“…one with the universe…nothing matters…”

[Badger Bob]

Since the Canes don’t have an AHL affiliate Ty Smith is being loaned back to WBS for the rest of the season.

That's really weird that the Canes don't have an AHL affiliate.

[KG]

Says the 3 prospects are top 10 for Carolina but would be our 4, 5, 6 top prospects.

[thehockeyguru]

Not sure if this was mentioned but the Pens get the Canes 1st IF the Canes make it to the SCF. If not the Pens get the Flyers 2024 2nd rounder

[Three Stars]

I feel that some context is needed. Here's The Athletic's list of the best pure rental trades of the salary cap era.

12. Cristobal Huet

February 26, 2008 — Washington trades a 2009 second-round pick (Jeremy Morin) to Montreal for Huet

11. Jaromir Jagr

April 2, 2013 — Boston trades Lane MacDermid, Cody Payne and a 2013 conditional first-round pick (Jason Dickinson) to Dallas for Jagr

10. Thomas Vanek

March 5, 2014 — Montreal trades Sebastian Collberg and a conditional 2014 second-round pick (Jonathan MacLeod) to the N.Y. Islanders for Vanek

9. Antoine Vermette

February 28, 2015 — Chicago trades Klas Dahlbeck and a 2015 first-round pick (Nick Merkley) to Arizona for Vermette

8. Andrew Copp

March 21, 2022 — N.Y. Rangers trade Morgan Barron, a 2022 first-round pick (Brad Lambert), a 2022 second (Elias Salomonsson) and a 2023 fifth to Winnipeg for Copp and a 2023 sixth

7. Jarome Iginla

March 27, 2013 — Pittsburgh trades Kenny Agostino, Ben Hanowski and a 2013 first-round pick (Morgan Klimchuk) to Calgary for Iginla

6. Sergei Samsonov

March 9, 2006 — Edmonton trades Marty Reasoner, Yan Stastny and a 2006 second-round pick to Boston for Samsonov

5. Ron Hainsey

February 23, 2017 — Pittsburgh trades Danny Kristo and a 2017 second-round pick (Jake Leschyshyn) to Carolina for Hainsey

4. Paul Stastny

February 26, 2018 — Winnipeg trades Erik Foley, a conditional 2018 first-round pick (Rasmus Sandin) and a conditional 2020 fourth (not conveyed) to St. Louis for Stastny

2. (and 3.) Doug Weight and Mark Recchi

Jan. 30, 2006 — Carolina trades a 2006 first-round pick (Matthew Corrente), a 2006 fourth (Reto Berra), 2007 fourth (Cade Fairchild), Jesse Boulerice and Mike Zigomanis to St. Louis for Weight

March 9, 2006 — Carolina trades Niklas Nordgren, Krys Kolanos and a 2007 second (Kevin Marshall) for Recchi

1. Marian Hossa

February 26, 2008 — Pittsburgh trades Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a 2008 first-round pick (Daultan Leveille) to Atlanta for Hossa and Pascal Dupuis

Here's what to glean from this list: The returns are mid at best for pure rentals. While we know who the draft picks turned into in each of these cases, at the time they were anonymous lottery tickets. You don't see a lot of best prospects going out, or at least guys who turned into something of value.

None of these involve 3 known prospects and a draft pick which is actually a fairly big outlay for a guy who likely will be gone in 2-3 months. I'm thinking that the equivalent trade in draft picks was the Doug Weight trade above, but I don't think a first, two fourths, Boulerice and Zigomanis (The Mantis!) would make me feel better.

Dubas obviously wanted seedlings (prospects) rather than seeds (draft picks).

Carolina was/is notorious for not being willing to shell out assets at the deadline for a splash pickup.

There's also a non-zero chance that the Penguins sign Guentzel in the offseason. I wouldn't say it's a great chance but evidently they wanted to leave that option open, given that they wouldn't give permission for contract negotiations.

The Pens were actually on the good side of 3 of these, which is extraordinary.

[thehockeyguru]

Claude Giroux isn't on that list which is surprising

[KG]

[Three Stars]

Bunting is going to get trashed by Penguins Fandom because he's not Guentzel.

That said, if the Pens can get the same production from him by playing him with talented players that Toronto did, that can only be a good thing.

Bunting can play net front on the power play.

[lemieuxReturns]

Since the Canes don’t have an AHL affiliate Ty Smith is being loaned back to WBS for the rest of the season.

That's really weird that the Canes don't have an AHL affiliate.

It sucks. They did have the Checkers here in Charlotte.