Random Penguins Fodder

[Maestro]

Bottom line - everyone moans and groans about secondary scoring but Harkins gets a free pass and a acrub like White will play before Puusty or Poulin. It's inane.

Puusty was doing well but what he didn't backcheck enough or whatever the genius thinks he sees. Then after games he talks about what a great shot Harkins has - so great it has amounted to 0 goals in 34 games.
We ain't that dumb.

[Pitts]

Had 7 points in his first 10 games, averaging about 13:20 TOI per game. His next 11 games, he has 1 assist in his final game as his ice time plummeted to roughly 8:35 TOI. So, a guy is playing well over a half a point per game pace, and you reward him by drastically reducing his ice time, and scratching your head why he's fallen off

This exactly

How many points does Harkins have in how much extra ice time?
Seriously, how much better does DOC look than Puustinen even with much better lineup spots?

Constant accountability for some, free ride for others. SullyBall!

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

[Pitts]

Spoiler:

Had 7 points in his first 10 games, averaging about 13:20 TOI per game. His next 11 games, he has 1 assist in his final game as his ice time plummeted to roughly 8:35 TOI. So, a guy is playing well over a half a point per game pace, and you reward him by drastically reducing his ice time, and scratching your head why he's fallen off

This exactly

How many points does Harkins have in how much extra ice time?
Seriously, how much better does DOC look than Puustinen even with much better lineup spots?

Constant accountability for some, free ride for others. SullyBall!

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

I think you have a point, but for my discussion, I used points as a measuring stick because A) it's the easiest stat to find B) for Puustinen's game to translate here, he needs to put up points. It's a lot harder to find meaningful stats to measure how someone is doing defensively or on the forecheck.

If Puustinen is going to make in the NHL, while he'll need a well rounded game, point production is going to be his game. He did it well over those first 10 games, not going more than 2 games without a point. He's not going to fit well as a 4th liner, especially in Sullivan's system and what he expects from his 4th liner. Puustinen should be able to carve out a 3rd line role, with occasional stints in the top 6.

Puustinen actually fit better on the 3rd line than he did with Geno. 70 minutes with Geno, 3 GF, 2 GA as a line. 112 minutes away from Geno, 7 GF, 4 GA as a line.

Puustinen also never got used correctly on the PP. Any fan that has seen Puustinen play a meaningful # of games in WBS knows that on the PP, he feasts in the "OVI" spot. Sullivan used him for like 2 PP attempts there, and then either moved him elsewhere or removed him altogether.

Puustinen isn't my favorite player. I'm not making these statements because he's my bestie and it's not fair that I like him and he's not playing. He's shown good promise in the AHL the last 2 years. I don't recall any glaring mistakes that Puustinen made to deserve seeing his ice time evaporate.

I'd be more upset about Puustinen if Puljujarvi weren't getting a chance, because I think from what I have seen from him at WBS, plus seeing some of his games with Edmonton, I know what he can bring and he earned the right to play here. I also would really like to see Poulin get in 5-10 games before the trade deadline to see how his game translate to the NHL level.

In one way, it's a good problem to have, but on the other hand, some of this is just having a bunch of average guys fighting over spots, versus us overflowing with capable bodies playing exceptional.

I'd like to get to a point where DOC-Eller-Acciari was our 4th line, and Poulin-X-Puljujarvi/Puustinen was our 3rd line, but Eller is playing too well for Sully to bump him down. The other alternative would be put Eller between Poulin/Puljujarvi, and pickup a solid 4th line center, because I don't think Acciari, Carter, Johnstone, White, or Gruden is the answer there. Acciari needs to get some games on RW, where he tends to be much more effective.

Very much so. As it stands right now, Pustinen has no spot to play in the Top 9. I mentioned moving Smith for picks - that would allow Pustinen to fit. If you move Smith for another player, Pusty has no where to play again. Pusty isn't fighting Harkins, Nieto, Accari and club for playing time. He's fighting Smith, O'Connor, Rakell, Puljujarvi, etc. With that said, I think DOC needs to move down the lineup. He can't score to save his life, but I love his game everywhere else.

[Daniel]

Had 7 points in his first 10 games, averaging about 13:20 TOI per game. His next 11 games, he has 1 assist in his final game as his ice time plummeted to roughly 8:35 TOI. So, a guy is playing well over a half a point per game pace, and you reward him by drastically reducing his ice time, and scratching your head why he's fallen off

This exactly

How many points does Harkins have in how much extra ice time?
Seriously, how much better does DOC look than Puustinen even with much better lineup spots?

Constant accountability for some, free ride for others. SullyBall!

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

I forgot about DOC and Puljujarvi but I suspect Puljujarvi will end up as a 4th liner when it's all said and done. Puustinen with Malkin, DOC with Eller and Rakell.

[FLPensFan]

This exactly

How many points does Harkins have in how much extra ice time?
Seriously, how much better does DOC look than Puustinen even with much better lineup spots?

Constant accountability for some, free ride for others. SullyBall!

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

I forgot about DOC and Puljujarvi but I suspect Puljujarvi will end up as a 4th liner when it's all said and done. Puustinen with Malkin, DOC with Eller and Rakell.

If healthy, Puljujarvi>>>DOC. JP has the nice combination of some offensive skills relatable to 3rd line production, plus solid defensive and forechecking skills. DOC needs to be able to double his output the 2nd half of this season to potentially impress me this.

[KG]

No Poulin in the lineup tonight for WBS. Wonder if he’s hurt or could be a potential recall?

[Daniel]

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

I forgot about DOC and Puljujarvi but I suspect Puljujarvi will end up as a 4th liner when it's all said and done. Puustinen with Malkin, DOC with Eller and Rakell.

If healthy, Puljujarvi>>>DOC. JP has the nice combination of some offensive skills relatable to 3rd line production, plus solid defensive and forechecking skills. DOC needs to be able to double his output the 2nd half of this season to potentially impress me this.

Puljujarvi might end up being better, I just see him as a big bodied 4th liner. His stop scoring 36 points and with his injury might not even get that (about .5 ppg I mean). DOC might have more upside but either way, DOC/Eller/Rakell or Puljujarvi/Eller/Rakell are two pretty good options and either option puts a little more scoring to the 4th line. Acciari at one wing and DOC/Puljujarvi at the other makes for 2/3 of a nice 4th line that might almost be like a 3rd line if they put the right person with them (ie, not Carter).

If the goal is more depth, Jake/Sid/Rust: Smith/Malkin/Puustinen: Puljujarvi/DOC/Eller/Rakell: Puljujarvi/DOC/4th line center/Acciari is a nice lineup. Do you see a weakness?

[FLPensFan]

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

I forgot about DOC and Puljujarvi but I suspect Puljujarvi will end up as a 4th liner when it's all said and done. Puustinen with Malkin, DOC with Eller and Rakell.

If healthy, Puljujarvi>>>DOC. JP has the nice combination of some offensive skills relatable to 3rd line production, plus solid defensive and forechecking skills. DOC needs to be able to double his output the 2nd half of this season to potentially impress me this.

Puljujarvi might end up being better, I just see him as a big bodied 4th liner. His stop scoring 36 points and with his injury might not even get that (about .5 ppg I mean). DOC might have more upside but either way, DOC/Eller/Rakell or Puljujarvi/Eller/Rakell are two pretty good options and either option puts a little more scoring to the 4th line. Acciari at one wing and DOC/Puljujarvi at the other makes for 2/3 of a nice 4th line that might almost be like a 3rd line if they put the right person with them (ie, not Carter).

If the goal is more depth, Jake/Sid/Rust: Smith/Malkin/Puustinen: Puljujarvi/DOC/Eller/Rakell: Puljujarvi/DOC/4th line center/Acciari is a nice lineup. Do you see a weakness?

Nope. Breaking up the stacked top 6 would probably be beneficial. Puljujarvi doesn't play an overly physical game, but I almost wonder if putting him with Sid and Jake wouldn't be extremely helpful. Tell him to hunt pucks, win board battles, get pucks to Sid and Jake. This team still desperately misses that Kunitz/Hornqvist element in the top 6.

[FLPensFan]

Poulin not recalled because Poulin is hurt and day to day with a lower body injury. No word if it is the same injury, a high ankle sprain, that kept him out for a month earlier in the season.

[Maestro]

Over/under for 4th line 5 on 5 time = 6nin 10 sec.

[Maestro]

This exactly

How many points does Harkins have in how much extra ice time?
Seriously, how much better does DOC look than Puustinen even with much better lineup spots?

Constant accountability for some, free ride for others. SullyBall!

So my beef with us fans constantly crying about a player's usage and/or ice time is we are not the one working with these players every single day on the ice. We do not see what the coaches and GM see. The original comment here is only about points per ice time. What about his play away from the puck? His defensive zone coverage? Other aspects of his game? I just always find it hard to support fans claiming players should be granted ice time since we are not the ones working with them. IDK, maybe Puustinen should play over Harkins, but is he a 4th line player? I don't think so. In Puustinen's first 10 games wasn't he playing with Malkin and getting some PP time while Rakell and Rust were out? He's not gonna play over either of those 2.

Why wouldn’t he play over those 2? If they want a legit 3rd line for scoring, why not put Rakell or Rust on that line and move Puustinen up with Malkin? I think that would give them 3 good scoring lines. If Sullivan will put Kessel on the 3rd line he can certainly put Rust or Rakell there.

Rakell is currently on the 3rd line. With Puljujarvi. Puustinen is not a 4th line player. Where does he fit?

I forgot about DOC and Puljujarvi but I suspect Puljujarvi will end up as a 4th liner when it's all said and done. Puustinen with Malkin, DOC with Eller and Rakell.

4th line player? What exactly does that mean? Forwards are out there to score.
And please don't say he can't do PK. How would anyone know that?

[KG]

Josh Yohe
@JoshYohe_PGH
The Penguins haven’t scored more than three goals in a game since Jan. 8.

With a healthy Sid/Geno/Jake/Karlsson/Letang. Team has gone close to a month without scoring more than 3 goals in a game? Sullivan's response would be something like, this is a competitive league and it's hard to score in this league. Blah blah...

[Coffey Break]

Rickard Rakell quickly becoming a problem. He cannot do anything on the bottom 6 - he looks miserable out there and a complete non-factor for what he's being paid.

Rust also I feel gets a free pass from fans for whatever reason. He has been completely below average since coming back from his injury. I am begging Coach Stubborn to put 67 back with 87 - it's okay to demote your "favorites" sometimes.

59-87-67
19-71-17
10-20-18
Who cares-Who cares-Who cares

[KG]

Rickard Rakell quickly becoming a problem. He cannot do anything on the bottom 6 - he looks miserable out there and a complete non-factor for what he's being paid.

Rust also I feel gets a free pass from fans for whatever reason. He has been completely below average since coming back from his injury. I am begging Coach Stubborn to put 67 back with 87 - it's okay to demote your "favorites" sometimes.

59-87-67
19-71-17
10-20-18
Who cares-Who cares-Who cares

I agree. Rakell needs to play in the top 6. Put OC in the bottom 6. I understand what Sullivan was trying to do to spread the offense around over 3 lines, but Rakell needs to play with a playmaker.

Or make some hockey trades, swap out Rakell and Smith for different forwards. Or you know, maybe bring in a new voice after 9 years...

[Mad City Mike]

Rozsíval

Yep, and who was his frequently paired defense partner... wore number 2... can't think of his name...?

Joe Melichar

[largegarlic]

I said before for the scenario of the Pens getting 3rd in the division, 3 things needed to happen: the Flyers needed to continue to be bad, the Pens needed to be good, and the Devils needed to not get hot.

As of now, only one of those is happening: the Devils not getting hot. The Flyers are 3-0 since the break; the Pens, obviously, are 1-2, and the Devils are 1-1-1.

[Pens4Life]

Rickard Rakell quickly becoming a problem. He cannot do anything on the bottom 6 - he looks miserable out there and a complete non-factor for what he's being paid.

Rust also I feel gets a free pass from fans for whatever reason. He has been completely below average since coming back from his injury. I am begging Coach Stubborn to put 67 back with 87 - it's okay to demote your "favorites" sometimes.

59-87-67
19-71-17
10-20-18
Who cares-Who cares-Who cares

I agree. Rakell needs to play in the top 6. Put OC in the bottom 6. I understand what Sullivan was trying to do to spread the offense around over 3 lines, but Rakell needs to play with a playmaker.

Or make some hockey trades, swap out Rakell and Smith for different forwards. Or you know, maybe bring in a new voice after 9 years...

yep, RR needs to be top 6 guy, DOC isnt top line winger and probably never will be.. BUT GOD DAMN, yeah new voice after 9 years, at this stage I think could turnaround season,but.. Sully will be probably even next GM after Dubas is gone

too bad Poulin is injured again, but... eh whatever, I wont even write what I would do with lines and that I would sent Harkins, White back to AHL etc
Sullivan will do his usual **** and even if we call up two younger energetic guys from WBS he wont play them for more than 6min?!
I would also sit Graves for next 3 games, let him watch few games,maybe he would comeback better.. put Ludvig with Karlsson, Joseph with Ruh!

[FLPensFan]

Rickard Rakell quickly becoming a problem. He cannot do anything on the bottom 6 - he looks miserable out there and a complete non-factor for what he's being paid.

Rust also I feel gets a free pass from fans for whatever reason. He has been completely below average since coming back from his injury. I am begging Coach Stubborn to put 67 back with 87 - it's okay to demote your "favorites" sometimes.

59-87-67
19-71-17
10-20-18
Who cares-Who cares-Who cares

I think Rust is going about his business quietly, and actually playing well. Would it shock you to learn that Rust has 3 goals and 6 assists, 9 points, in his 14 games since returning to injury.

Would it shock you even more to learn that Rakell has the exact same 3 goals, 6 assists, 9 points over that same set of games? The difference is Rakell had 3 goals in the first 4 games of that 14 game set, then hasn't done anything in 9 games, goal scoring wise.

Rakell was injured, too, and he's played 20 games since he came back. In those 20 games, (including 14 of the same set from Rust stats), he's got 5 goals and 17 assists.

[thehockeyguru]

Can we rename this thread to Wakeup Kyle Dubas?

[FLPensFan]

Can we rename this thread to Wakeup Kyle Dubas?

13 NTC/NMCs. Good luck!

[KG]

Can we rename this thread to Wakeup Kyle Dubas?

13 NTC/NMCs. Good luck!

A coaching change is the only thing that could have a positive effect. We are going to massively lose a Jake trade in the short term and what else can we trade? Smith or Rakell will get you a similar player that is struggling and is too expensive.

[thehockeyguru]

Can we rename this thread to Wakeup Kyle Dubas?

13 NTC/NMCs. Good luck!

Honestly who wants to be here? Sid, Letang, Pettersson, Jarry, Ned, and?

You want to move a player and they won't waive their no trade or no movement then take away their ice.

The status quo can't continue.

I don't know about anyone else but this is the first year in 30 that I haven't gone to a home game. I don't have any plans to either until this franchise gets its act together

[FLPensFan]

Can we rename this thread to Wakeup Kyle Dubas?

13 NTC/NMCs. Good luck!

A coaching change is the only thing that could have a positive effect. We are going to massively lose a Jake trade in the short term and what else can we trade? Smith or Rakell will get you a similar player that is struggling and is too expensive.

So, DK had a big article today, stating that pointing the finger at coaching right now won't fix things. With the title, I at first said "Great, another puff piece or redirect away from Sully." As I read it, it I started thinking maybe he has a point. His two main pieces of evidence:

Some season totals:

• Goals/game: 2.90, 24th in NHL
• Power-play %: 13.9, 30th in NHL
• Shooting %: 8.8, 28th in NHL
• High-danger shooting %: 15.1, 30th in NHL
• Shots/game: 33.3, fifth in NHL

And the following forwards are doing guano with those chances:

• Evgeni Malkin: Two goals in 15 games
• Reilly Smith: Three goals in 33 games
• Rickard Rakell: Zero goals in 10 games
• Drew O'Connor: One goal in 10 games
• Jeff Carter: One goal in 12 games
• Colin White: No goals in seven games
• Jansen Harkins: Zero goals in 34 games

Dejan is pointing the finger much more at Dubas than Sullivan. The team isn't scoring, the team isn't finishing, the team isn't shooting from the high-danger areas. The entire "2nd line" of Malkin, Smith, and Rakell aren't living up to potential, and 4 of the bottom 6 forwards aren't providing enough offense. Essentially, the 1st line and Eller are meeting expectations, and Puljujarvi is too new to really harp on at this point.

From my standpoint, they need to go out and get a better 4C. A problem they have is that while both Acciari and Carter are ok at center, other than faceoffs, they are both better slated at RW at this point. Rotate those 2 guys a bit at 4RW, and see who rises. If it's Carter, fine...there should be teams willing to take on Acciari at the trade deadline due to his status as a playoff warrior.

Waive Nieto as soon as he's healthy. He's done just as little as the other group of forwards. Bring up Poulin when he's healthy. Rakell was doing fine in the top 6, and, kind of like Puustinen, Sully cut his ice time and magically/puzzling, his production fell as well.

Trade Smith or Rakell if there is a taker to change up the top 6 group. But Dubas needs to do something soon. More than likely, it is already too late...and I haven't even touched on the abomination of Graves.

EDIT: Forgot to add from Sullivan's point of view...he needs to start adjusting ice time for players that won't stick to the plan. Players that aren't getting to the high danger areas for shots and playing the system, move em down the lineup and play those who will, even at the risk of tiring the effective players out.

[Pens4Life]

Team is sick and tired of Sully.. nobody will say it,nobody can show it,but I think they are!? 6 years of nothingburger... We changed the team drastically last years and still same result! What hasnt change,the freaking stubborn coach! At this stage I really just dont care anymore.. its like crashing the car into wall 10 times out of 10 times and still blaming the engine, not the driver...

[pekkasteele]

The only constant since the last cup is:

Sidney Crosby
Jake Guentzel
Evgeni Malkin
Bryan Rust
(Letang injured)


And
Sully.

I don't know, I think Sully is the bigger problem than those 4 players.