Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

I wonder how many people here have actually read the Freeh report in full. If you haven't I suggest you do.

[shafnutz05]

In some ways, I'm most shocked that a university president could have been involved in a cover up like this.
It makes me really question the value of athletics at institutions, that play a major role in creation and fostering of leaders and innovators in our society.

Where the hell were their priorities?

I went to a Division III school, so maybe I just don't "get it" when it comes to the role of college athletics.

I went to a DIII school too, but I certainly understand the role of college athletics. A LOT of the money raised by the football program contributes to the fact that PSU is such a great research university. Graham Spanier's actions are especially sickening though.

[count2infinity]

In some ways, I'm most shocked that a university president could have been involved in a cover up like this.
It makes me really question the value of athletics at institutions, that play a major role in creation and fostering of leaders and innovators in our society.

Where the hell were their priorities?

I went to a Division III school, so maybe I just don't "get it" when it comes to the role of college athletics.

I agree here. The buck needed to stop somewhere. McQueary didn't know what to do, so he sought advice from his father, his father said go to Joe. Joe said to McQueary that he did the right thing and he would handle it from there. Then Joe said himself to a reporter that he didn't know what to do as to not violate university policies so he handed the situation over to those HE THOUGHT did know what to do, but he was wrong.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

In some ways, I'm most shocked that a university president could have been involved in a cover up like this.
It makes me really question the value of athletics at institutions, that play a major role in creation and fostering of leaders and innovators in our society.

Where the hell were their priorities?

I went to a Division III school, so maybe I just don't "get it" when it comes to the role of college athletics.

When the football or any other sports program drives a majority of a school's image, contributions, and applications, it definitely makes the management of that program's reputation an important aspect. How many people would have ever heard of Duke if not for their basketball program? How about Boise St, Notre Dame, etc. The importance that college athletics plays for major colleges is unfortunate, but I don't see that importance changing due to the amount of money involved and the number of people that rely on that money to make a living.

[columbia]

In some ways, I'm most shocked that a university president could have been involved in a cover up like this.
It makes me really question the value of athletics at institutions, that play a major role in creation and fostering of leaders and innovators in our society.

Where the hell were their priorities?

I went to a Division III school, so maybe I just don't "get it" when it comes to the role of college athletics.

I went to a DIII school too, but I certainly understand the role of college athletics. A LOT of the money raised by the football program contributes to the fact that PSU is such a great research university. Graham Spanier's actions are especially sickening though.

I certainly understand the economics of it....but from an institutional culture standpoint? No, I honestly don't and I'm definitely not just talking about PSU. Then again, I never bothered to go to any football games as an undergrad.
In fact, I haven't been to a CFB game, since I was about 12. (Pitt vs Syracuse, I think.)

[MWB]

I certainly understand the economics of it....but from an institutional culture standpoint? No, I honestly don't and I'm definitely not just talking about PSU. Then again, I never bothered to go to any football games as an undergrad.
In fact, I haven't been to a CFB game, since I was about 12. (Pitt vs Syracuse, I think.)

I feel the same way. Doesn't make sense to me. However, I've never been to a college football game and went to a school with no football team.

[count2infinity]

I have yet to go to a PSU football game while I've been here. In fact, I've only been to one my entire life.

[thehockeyguru]

Would banning PSU football from TV and or bowl games for a year or two be part of a fair punishment?

Absolutely. Shutting down the program for a year would be disastrous not just to the football program, but to the educational mission of the school. There are a lot of people that just want the program shut down to kick Penn State in the teeth. Well, that's fine, but I need a better reason than that.

If I'm the NCAA, I reduce scholarships, and give some kind of TV and bowl ban. I guarantee that if the NCAA tries to venture into uncharted territory and shuts down the football program for this, the university will file a lawsuit almost immediately. And I think the university would win easily.

I have a hard time seeing how the football team should be punished for this. The failure was at the highest levels of the University. Had Sandusky been an engineering professor, and this happened in an engineering building would you cease to offer the major?

I don't think the NCAA should get involved, but I do think the Big 10 should. If this wasn't all about money the Big 10 would put it to a vote to have Penn State removed from the conference. As a conference I wouldn't want to be associated with a school whose leadership had such misguided priorities.

[King Sid the Great 87]

Would banning PSU football from TV and or bowl games for a year or two be part of a fair punishment?

Absolutely. Shutting down the program for a year would be disastrous not just to the football program, but to the educational mission of the school. There are a lot of people that just want the program shut down to kick Penn State in the teeth. Well, that's fine, but I need a better reason than that.

If I'm the NCAA, I reduce scholarships, and give some kind of TV and bowl ban. I guarantee that if the NCAA tries to venture into uncharted territory and shuts down the football program for this, the university will file a lawsuit almost immediately. And I think the university would win easily.

Much less disastrous than what Penn State University allowed to happen to all those kids, eh?

The school benefitted for the last 14 years from covering up what is by far the biggest scandal in the history of an American institution. The football program enabled it, over, and over, and over.

If Penn State is bigger than football, the educational mission will survive just fine if the football program is shut down for a year.

[shafnutz05]

Much less disastrous than what Penn State University allowed to happen to all those kids, eh?

Why do people feel the need to constantly remind everyone else that children getting molested is worse than a, b, c, d, e, and f? Thanks, I'm aware of the horrors of molestation.

The only reason you want to shut down the football program is to smack Penn State in the mouth and make them pay dearly for their sins. Not just the five people that were involved in the coverup, but a couple hundred thousand other people. Sadly, in the real world, that usually isn't a good enough reason for such a drastic action. And it won't happen.

[Factorial]

Is King Sid the Great 87 a PSU hater?

[shafnutz05]

It just grows tiresome. Having a discussion about what merits a suitable punishment for the university, and always coming back to "You DO know kids were molested....right? What's worse, the other parts of the university losing those millions of dollars for the year, or....well, you know....kids getting molested?

[count2infinity]

wonder what the victims would want done. obviously nothing can fix the wrongs that occurred, but it'd be interesting to get the perspective from one of them. if they had the option to do whatever they wanted as a form of punishment, what would they want.

[King Sid the Great 87]

Much less disastrous than what Penn State University allowed to happen to all those kids, eh?

Why do people feel the need to constantly remind everyone else that children getting molested is worse than a, b, c, d, e, and f? Thanks, I'm aware of the horrors of molestation.

The only reason you want to shut down the football program is to smack Penn State in the mouth and make them pay dearly for their sins. Not just the five people that were involved in the coverup, but a couple hundred thousand other people. Sadly, in the real world, that usually isn't a good enough reason for such a drastic action. And it won't happen.

That's the way the world works. How many innocent people at Enron were punished? Was that not real world?

How much did Penn State University benefit in funding over the last 14 years by covering this up? Too outright say there is 0 reason for the school to be punished to the fullest extent possible is nothing but homerism. I don't know if it will or won't happen but to pretend that it could never happen and Penn State would sue and win easily if it did is a joke.

[bhaw]

The biggest shame is that, regardless of whether the team should suffer consequences, some people feel the conversation has to center around football. It's funny that people who use this type of argument:

Much less disastrous than what Penn State University allowed to happen to all those kids, eh?

are the first ones to turn it into a football thing. The discussion should be more around how the people actually involved should be punished, how to make sure it NEVER happens again, and maybe 10th in line should be how you punish the football team. I don't like PSU (rather ambivalent as I wasn't at a school anywhere near it), but to see a report that shows these people were all involved then turning it to "how do we punish the football team?" 2.6 seconds later is sickening. Yeah, that's the most important thing here... football...

That's exactly how this got to where it is now.

[shafnutz05]

I don't know if it will or won't happen but to pretend that it could never happen and Penn State would sue and win easily if it did is a joke.

Seriously? You're right, the multiple NCAA-related legal experts that know the ins and outs of this and have agreed with my position must be wrong too. I haven't checked their diplomas to see if they all attended Joe Paterno University, but I'm pretty sure most of them are not from State College.

Let's assume that 14 years ago, Sandusky was arrested for sex abuse and went to prison. I'm having a hard time understanding just how badly that would have "hurt" the university? Joe Paterno would still be there. It would have been a really unfortunate and ugly incident, but thankfully Sandusky went to jail. The last 14 years wouldn't have been any different. Who knows, maybe Paterno would have retired younger (with his legacy intact), they would have gotten a new coach, and won a BCS championship.

I understand that the parties involved covered this up to try and cover their own asses and protect the program. But I'm having a difficult time seeing just how much they benefited from doing so, versus if Sandusky had been arrested at the time. Do you have any idea how much money the school is about to lose in civil suits, government sanctions, etc?

[shafnutz05]

People are having a hard time grasping that this is a criminal case. The NCAA has zero precedent for stepping into this territory, as their jurisdiction has mostly been related to cheating the system itself. As much as people would love to see the football program go down in flames forever, sorry, it's just not going to happen. The loss of scholarships/bowl games/TV coverage will set the program back some years (which is perfectly fine), but the death penalty dreamers are going to be sorely disappointed.

[pittsoccer33]

People are having a hard time grasping that this is a criminal case. The NCAA has zero precedent for stepping into this territory

is that true? im not saying it isnt, im just curious. have they ever got involved in a case where there was a murder, assault, or robbery?

[shafnutz05]

The University of Florida had something like 30 players arrested in a span of five years under Coach Urban Meyer. Not once did the NCAA even consider punishment there.

[shafnutz05]

Or Baylor in 2003, when a player was convicted of MURDERING another teammate.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

If the NCAA does get involved under the context of a criminal matter it definitely could create a precedent that they would need to get involved in every crimal matter by those involved with an athletic program in the future.

[columbia]

Or Baylor in 2003, when a player was convicted of MURDERING another teammate.

I frankly don't care about the NCAA angle, but it seems like there would difference in dealing the actions of a student vs that of administrators.
My gut tells me that the NCAA would be more interested in the latter....but I don't really follow these things, so that might be even remotely true.

[shafnutz05]

This is why I am saying (contrary to what King Sid is stating) that PSU would have major grounds for a lawsuit if the NCAA went full bore and tried to institute the death penalty. The NCAA has set a very clear precedent that they do not have the jurisdiction to assert major punishments in these situations.

Now, that being said, if the NCAA did institute relatively severe punishments like bowl bans and reducing scholarships, I believe that Penn State would gladly take that and disappear for a couple of years (for obvious PR reasons, just take your medicine). But there is no way the university is just going to roll over and accept a death penalty.

[King Sid the Great 87]

I don't know if it will or won't happen but to pretend that it could never happen and Penn State would sue and win easily if it did is a joke.

Seriously? You're right, the multiple NCAA-related legal experts that know the ins and outs of this and have agreed with my position must be wrong too. I haven't checked their diplomas to see if they all attended Joe Paterno University, but I'm pretty sure most of them are not from State College.

Let's assume that 14 years ago, Sandusky was arrested for sex abuse and went to prison. I'm having a hard time understanding just how badly that would have "hurt" the university? Joe Paterno would still be there. It would have been a really unfortunate and ugly incident, but thankfully Sandusky went to jail. The last 14 years wouldn't have been any different. Who knows, maybe Paterno would have retired younger (with his legacy intact), they would have gotten a new coach, and won a BCS championship.

I understand that the parties involved covered this up to try and cover their own asses and protect the program. But I'm having a difficult time seeing just how much they benefited from doing so, versus if Sandusky had been arrested at the time. Do you have any idea how much money the school is about to lose in civil suits, government sanctions, etc?

So the multiple legal experts who say death penalty has 0 chance carry more weight than those who says there could be a death penalty? Because you say so?

Bringing it to light in '98 would have had some immediate short-term impact. Knee jerk reactions would have occurred. Paterno very well could have been gone if the actions of 2001 came out after '98 was swept away. Penn State was bad at the turn of the century if I remember and calls were starting to be heard for Paterno to walk away. Pile child rape at football facilities on top of it, and who knows if Paterno remains coach. He had plenty to gain from keeping this quiet. Penn State's squeaky clean image, Paterno's legacy, the wins record, etc.

Penn State stand to lose a lot more than if they had done it the right way over a decade ago. Had they done it right from the outset, I would agree there would be 0 discussion of death penalty.

[pittsoccer33]

Or Baylor in 2003, when a player was convicted of MURDERING another teammate.

i think this is what i was trying to remember. no involvement there?