Random Penguins Fodder

[dark_forces]

I've always liked Torts. He's a big supporter of the military and of animal causes, both of which engender significant affection from me. Plus, history shows he knows what he's doing behind the bench, with success in multiple places and teams unlike a certain guy who has ridden a couple of years of a stacked team with prime age superstars to an undeserved reputation. Lastly, Mike Keenan was rough but still was a good coach and got results. Maybe, just maybe, a guy being a super gruff and rough personality doesn't mean he isn't a good coach.

The NHL needs more coaches like him. He's sort of a throwback to the 80's/early 90's. What you see is what you get. And, he does what he says he's going to do.
That said, I don't see him as a coach that lasts more than 4 years with any club, but is great at reinvigorating a meandering team with a heavy dose of discipline and accountability. Certainly, a departure from the opposite end of the spectrum—the much dreaded and talked about country club atmosphere.

[Guinness]

I've always liked Torts. He's a big supporter of the military and of animal causes, both of which engender significant affection from me. Plus, history shows he knows what he's doing behind the bench, with success in multiple places and teams unlike a certain guy who has ridden a couple of years of a stacked team with prime age superstars to an undeserved reputation. Lastly, Mike Keenan was rough but still was a good coach and got results. Maybe, just maybe, a guy being a super gruff and rough personality doesn't mean he isn't a good coach.

Scotty Bowman was one of the best ever. Also, Herb Brooks.

But the team loved Badger Bob, and he was the most affable coaches I've ever seen.

[Antonio]

It's a great day for hockey indeed.

[pens_CT]

I've always liked Torts. He's a big supporter of the military and of animal causes, both of which engender significant affection from me. Plus, history shows he knows what he's doing behind the bench, with success in multiple places and teams unlike a certain guy who has ridden a couple of years of a stacked team with prime age superstars to an undeserved reputation. Lastly, Mike Keenan was rough but still was a good coach and got results. Maybe, just maybe, a guy being a super gruff and rough personality doesn't mean he isn't a good coach.

Scotty Bowman was one of the best ever. Also, Herb Brooks.

But the team loved Badger Bob, and he was the most affable coaches I've ever seen.

Mario and company tuned out Bowman in 92-93, and if I remember correctly the assistant coaches ran practice, and Scotty showed up only for the games. This team's superstars have typically revolted with strong willed coaches have taken over the team (see Michael Therrien as another example).

[Antonio]

Funny that 92 93 was one of the greatest most epic failures to meet expectations with regards to performance and capability.

[Sigwolf]

Not necessarily but I look at coaches like him as short term solutions to long term issues. Sustainability is his biggest downfall.

Funny, the same could be said of Sullivan, yet no on in the Pens organization, and much of the fanbase, has been able to recognize it. He came in, brought some needed changes, and has since completely lost the room and worn out his welcome. He hasn't adjusted himself to the changes, and aging, in the team. Sullivan has provided "zero" sustainability to his "system". This team needs a new voice.

[Maestro]

Sully has developed nobody. DOC maybe finally. Looks like he's gonna kill Puustinen. Not POJ. Not Smith.... won't call up Poulin. He is Killing this organization. But hey.

[Wyopen]

Mike Matheson has more points than EK65. Just saying.

[dark_forces]

I wonder whether, in the event the team falls short of the postseason, Dubas might consider trading Smith or Rakell (as opposed to Jake) to contenders for packages built around future assets or younger, lower-paid NHL players. Making such moves, coupled with Carter's deal expiring, could provide the Penguins the financial flexibility to retain Jake easily and pursue another top-6 winger in free agency. And, you've already added either younger players/prospects, or future assets to help replenish the system.

[FLPensFan]

I wonder whether, in the event the team falls short of the postseason, Dubas might consider trading Smith or Rakell (as opposed to Jake) to contenders for packages built around future assets or younger, lower-paid NHL players. Making such moves, coupled with Carter's deal expiring, could provide the Penguins the financial flexibility to retain Jake easily and pursue another top-6 winger in free agency. And, you've already added either younger players/prospects, or future assets to help replenish the system.

Guentzel can get a top quality young player, whether NHL ready or top prospect. Smith or Rakell, cannot.

The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could see, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.

This team is currently behind last year's pace in points and goals for, and ahead of the pace in goals against. Guentzel would certainly help them down the stretch and IF they make the playoffs...but he's not the piece that makes them a playoff contender, and locking in another 30 year old to an expensive long-term deal isn't the right move for this club with where it is as an organization.

Ask yourself what happens if Guentzel signs an 8year, 10M AAV deal tomorrow, and Crosby or Malkin suffer a season ending injury the next day? It's just another hypothetical, but there are so many hypotheticals and things based on reality that point to re-upping Guentzel and keeping him for another magic playoff first round exit isn't the right call.

I'd rather move Guentzel, get some young guys, move Smith and maybe one of Rakell/Rust at the draft, and maybe finally look at adding some skilled youth around our core. THAT would give them much better odds at being a playoff contender....IMO.

[Ericf]

I wonder whether, in the event the team falls short of the postseason, Dubas might consider trading Smith or Rakell (as opposed to Jake) to contenders for packages built around future assets or younger, lower-paid NHL players. Making such moves, coupled with Carter's deal expiring, could provide the Penguins the financial flexibility to retain Jake easily and pursue another top-6 winger in free agency. And, you've already added either younger players/prospects, or future assets to help replenish the system.

Guentzel can get a top quality young player, whether NHL ready or top prospect. Smith or Rakell, cannot.

The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could see, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.

This team is currently behind last year's pace in points and goals for, and ahead of the pace in goals against. Guentzel would certainly help them down the stretch and IF they make the playoffs...but he's not the piece that makes them a playoff contender, and locking in another 30 year old to an expensive long-term deal isn't the right move for this club with where it is as an organization.

Ask yourself what happens if Guentzel signs an 8year, 10M AAV deal tomorrow, and Crosby or Malkin suffer a season ending injury the next day? It's just another hypothetical, but there are so many hypotheticals and things based on reality that point to re-upping Guentzel and keeping him for another magic playoff first round exit isn't the right call.

I'd rather move Guentzel, get some young guys, move Smith and maybe one of Rakell/Rust at the draft, and maybe finally look at adding some skilled youth around our core. THAT would give them much better odds at being a playoff contender....IMO.

Ryan Wilson cited some JFresh charts in his blog today and what they basically show is that we’re actually NOT good defensively 5on5. It’s that the goaltending (third in the league) has been propping up our defensive numbers. Either way, your point about Jake still stands: it’s not looking good for us and we should trade him. People keep going back to December’s numbers to prop up the Pens. But if you just look at January at this point, we’re back to being .500 or worse. Just like last season, we’re very streaky and trading good periods with bad periods. We aren’t a playoff team

[dark_forces]

I wonder whether, in the event the team falls short of the postseason, Dubas might consider trading Smith or Rakell (as opposed to Jake) to contenders for packages built around future assets or younger, lower-paid NHL players. Making such moves, coupled with Carter's deal expiring, could provide the Penguins the financial flexibility to retain Jake easily and pursue another top-6 winger in free agency. And, you've already added either younger players/prospects, or future assets to help replenish the system.

Guentzel can get a top quality young player, whether NHL ready or top prospect. Smith or Rakell, cannot.

The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could see, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.

This team is currently behind last year's pace in points and goals for, and ahead of the pace in goals against. Guentzel would certainly help them down the stretch and IF they make the playoffs...but he's not the piece that makes them a playoff contender, and locking in another 30 year old to an expensive long-term deal isn't the right move for this club with where it is as an organization.

Ask yourself what happens if Guentzel signs an 8year, 10M AAV deal tomorrow, and Crosby or Malkin suffer a season ending injury the next day? It's just another hypothetical, but there are so many hypotheticals and things based on reality that point to re-upping Guentzel and keeping him for another magic playoff first round exit isn't the right call.

I'd rather move Guentzel, get some young guys, move Smith and maybe one of Rakell/Rust at the draft, and maybe finally look at adding some skilled youth around our core. THAT would give them much better odds at being a playoff contender....IMO.

Terrific points. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. I see your perspective and am now convinced—even though it probably won't happen—that dealing Guentzel for the best haul is the way to go. Somehow, I just don't see it happening. That said, if there's an offer that blows them away, you'd have to do it. Raising the ire of Crosby, Letang, Malkin be damned.

[thehockeyguru]

Trading Guentzel is a no brainier. I wouldn't mind moving him to Vancouver for Kuzmenko a prospect and a 1st.

Kuzmenko is a UFA after next season. Try to elevate his trade value for next deadline and move him for additional picks

[KG]

Trading Guentzel is a no brainier. I wouldn't mind moving him to Vancouver for Kuzmenko a prospect and a 1st.

Kuzmenko is a UFA after next season. Try to elevate his trade value for next deadline and move him for additional picks

If we're getting Kuzmenko then Sully can't be the coach. Oil and water. I would think Hoglander would be of real interest for the Pens. Cheap cap hit $1.1mill.

Something like Jake at 50% and Chad (JR loves his Chad) for Hoglander, Raty, Podzolkin, 1st round pick. Minimal cap coming back but getting a top 6 in a young Hoglander and a potential long term 3C in Raty. I would think Vancouver would do it. Hoglander is really the only value they are giving up. Raty is a solid prospect, but their 3rd prospect.

[FLPensFan]

I wonder whether, in the event the team falls short of the postseason, Dubas might consider trading Smith or Rakell (as opposed to Jake) to contenders for packages built around future assets or younger, lower-paid NHL players. Making such moves, coupled with Carter's deal expiring, could provide the Penguins the financial flexibility to retain Jake easily and pursue another top-6 winger in free agency. And, you've already added either younger players/prospects, or future assets to help replenish the system.

Guentzel can get a top quality young player, whether NHL ready or top prospect. Smith or Rakell, cannot.

The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could see, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.

This team is currently behind last year's pace in points and goals for, and ahead of the pace in goals against. Guentzel would certainly help them down the stretch and IF they make the playoffs...but he's not the piece that makes them a playoff contender, and locking in another 30 year old to an expensive long-term deal isn't the right move for this club with where it is as an organization.

Ask yourself what happens if Guentzel signs an 8year, 10M AAV deal tomorrow, and Crosby or Malkin suffer a season ending injury the next day? It's just another hypothetical, but there are so many hypotheticals and things based on reality that point to re-upping Guentzel and keeping him for another magic playoff first round exit isn't the right call.

I'd rather move Guentzel, get some young guys, move Smith and maybe one of Rakell/Rust at the draft, and maybe finally look at adding some skilled youth around our core. THAT would give them much better odds at being a playoff contender....IMO.

Terrific points. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. I see your perspective and am now convinced—even though it probably won't happen—that dealing Guentzel for the best haul is the way to go. Somehow, I just don't see it happening. That said, if there's an offer that blows them away, you'd have to do it. Raising the ire of Crosby, Letang, Malkin be damned.

The thing is, trading Guentzel doesn't have to signal throwing in the towel. What it does signal is a an attempt at doing what should have been done 2-3 years ago...surrounding Crosby and Malkin with younger players up front to support them.

There's nothing that says they cannot trade Guentzel for a pick, prospect, and NHL player, and use the even more cap space to build a better team around the core. A younger team. A team with some bigger bodies that can withstand playoff hockey. Some contingencies in case one of Crosby or Malkin get injured.

Some trades and signings that could have had a major impact on this team the past few years:

--Imagine if in 20-21 instead of getting 35 year old Jeff Carter, the Penguins traded Poulin and a 2nd to Calgary for Sam Bennett and a 6th rounder. The Penguins would have had a more physical player as their 3C, who had the ability to move up into the top 6 when needed...presuming he flourished here like he did in Florida.

--Imagine if in the summer of 22-23, the Penguins didn't re-sign Kapanen, and instead spent the money to sign Dylan Strome to a 1 year, 3.5M deal. Another bigger bodied player that was coming off a great season with 22 goals and 48 points, who jumped to 23 goals and 65 points the next year with Washington...earning him a 5M 5 year deal

--Imagine if in 22-23, Sullivan didn't get a stick up his @$$ about a post-season penalty, and the team actually re-signed Evan Rodrigues.

Can you imagine how much different our bottom 6 would have been, and likely more successful, with the likes of Bennett, Strome, and Rodrigues over Carter, Kapanen, and a slew of spare parts over ERod. (I lobbied for Bennett for 2 years, and for Strome that summer. I would have taken ERod back at the right price)

[thehockeyguru]

Trading Guentzel is a no brainier. I wouldn't mind moving him to Vancouver for Kuzmenko a prospect and a 1st.

Kuzmenko is a UFA after next season. Try to elevate his trade value for next deadline and move him for additional picks

If we're getting Kuzmenko then Sully can't be the coach. Oil and water. I would think Hoglander would be of real interest for the Pens. Cheap cap hit $1.1mill.

Something like Jake at 50% and Chad (JR loves his Chad) for Hoglander, Raty, Podzolkin, 1st round pick. Minimal cap coming back but getting a top 6 in a young Hoglander and a potential long term 3C in Raty. I would think Vancouver would do it. Hoglander is really the only value they are giving up. Raty is a solid prospect, but their 3rd prospect.

That seems like a lot, id be very surprised if Vancouver did that

[Wyopen]

With the talent this team has they should not be fighting for WC berth, but for second in the Metro. This is embarrassing and a waste of money. All these “analytics” point to a great team. But analytics alone don’t guarantee a playoff position. Can we stop it with analytics, it makes us look like cry-babies.

[lemieuxReturns]

"The thing is, trading Guentzel doesn't have to signal throwing in the towel. What it does signal is a an attempt at doing what should have been done 2-3 years ago...surrounding Crosby and Malkin with younger players up front to support them."


100%

[lemieuxReturns]

Trading Guentzel is a no brainier. I wouldn't mind moving him to Vancouver for Kuzmenko a prospect and a 1st.

Kuzmenko is a UFA after next season. Try to elevate his trade value for next deadline and move him for additional picks

If we're getting Kuzmenko then Sully can't be the coach. Oil and water. I would think Hoglander would be of real interest for the Pens. Cheap cap hit $1.1mill.

Something like Jake at 50% and Chad (JR loves his Chad) for Hoglander, Raty, Podzolkin, 1st round pick. Minimal cap coming back but getting a top 6 in a young Hoglander and a potential long term 3C in Raty. I would think Vancouver would do it. Hoglander is really the only value they are giving up. Raty is a solid prospect, but their 3rd prospect.

That seems like a lot, id be very surprised if Vancouver did that

Make no mistake about it, if Jake is available there are going to be loads of teams lined up to make a deal like this. If the Penguins retain 50% for the remainder of the season, a team would be bringing in the best available player in the league at the wing position for a 3M a year pro-rated cap hit.

[KG]

30th ranked power play almost into February. Crosby, Jake, Geno, Karlsson on it. Reirden, we thank you for your efforts, but we are going to move the power play to someone else. Because if the power play doesn't turn around, we will not make the playoffs again.

Why this hasn't happened yet, is beyond me.

[dark_forces]

30th ranked power play almost into February. Crosby, Jake, Geno, Karlsson on it. Reirden, we thank you for your efforts, but we are going to move the power play to someone else. Because if the power play doesn't turn around, we will not make the playoffs again.

Why this hasn't happened yet, is beyond me.

This very much reminds me of pre-salary cap era NY Ranger teams. They go out and sign the stars, the name players, and their teams were largely average with little chemistry and didn't score anywhere near what they were projected to. Sound familiar?
Although I liked the brass to go out and acquire Karlsson, my initial personal reaction was—we don't really need him. We need playoff style players to round out the lineup, not more stars who score a lot in the regular season, but when they don't score, they don't really bring much else.

[FLPensFan]

30th ranked power play almost into February. Crosby, Jake, Geno, Karlsson on it. Reirden, we thank you for your efforts, but we are going to move the power play to someone else. Because if the power play doesn't turn around, we will not make the playoffs again.

Why this hasn't happened yet, is beyond me.

This very much reminds me of pre-salary cap era NY Ranger teams. They go out and sign the stars, the name players, and their teams were largely average with little chemistry and didn't score anywhere near what they were projected to. Sound familiar?
Although I liked the brass to go out and acquire Karlsson, my initial personal reaction was—we don't really need him. We need playoff style players to round out the lineup, not more stars who score a lot in the regular season, but when they don't score, they don't really bring much else.

I think Karlsson was the fallback to Chychrun. Better offensively but worse defensively, Sullivan would have rather had Chychrun...who, consequently is rumored to already being shopped by Ottawa. Chychrun has the same number of goals, and 5 less assists than Karlsson. He also costs half as much as Karlsson and is 8 years younger.

[FLPensFan]

With the talent this team has they should not be fighting for WC berth, but for second in the Metro. This is embarrassing and a waste of money. All these “analytics” point to a great team. But analytics alone don’t guarantee a playoff position. Can we stop it with analytics, it makes us look like cry-babies.

[Puck-Lurker]

With the talent this team has they should not be fighting for WC berth, but for second in the Metro. This is embarrassing and a waste of money. All these “analytics” point to a great team. But analytics alone don’t guarantee a playoff position. Can we stop it with analytics, it makes us look like cry-babies.

Well, that checks with the eye test results.

[thehockeyguru]

Is our 1st rounder this season that was traded to SJ top 10 protected?