Random Penguins Fodder

[Daniel]

I’m going to try a be as rational as possible, I really like the trade FLPF proposed. But I don’t think Calgary would go for it. My ultimate fear is that the Pens will sign Jake to a 6-8yr NMC 8M/yr contract only because he’s Crosby’s buddy. If Jake was 25 instead of 30 at the start of next season I might be for signing him. This “good old boys club” mentality has to stop along with the NMC/NTC contracts.

I agree and why I'd rather see Jake traded for multiple assets. I think he's a great player, but in the end he's a complimentary player and won't have much value when the team decides it's time to rebuild.

[lemieuxReturns]

The trade is certainly a risk, but think of the payoff if it worked out. Huberdeau would be our best wing and locked in for only 5.5M for another 7.5 years and we would have a top 5ish pick in the upcoming draft that could potentially play next season. If Yager can also make a push, we could have some very talented youth in our lineup.

[Wyopen]

I’m going to try a be as rational as possible, I really like the trade FLPF proposed. But I don’t think Calgary would go for it. My ultimate fear is that the Pens will sign Jake to a 6-8yr NMC 8M/yr contract only because he’s Crosby’s buddy. If Jake was 25 instead of 30 at the start of next season I might be for signing him. This “good old boys club” mentality has to stop along with the NMC/NTC contracts.

I agree and why I'd rather see Jake traded for multiple assets. I think he's a great player, but in the end he's a complimentary player and won't have much value when the team decides it's time to rebuild.

[DelPen]

Jake is the kind of player a team who is on the edge of a legit cup run trades for. I would frankly trade him if we are even 1 point out of the playoffs for a ransom that he should bring and then see if he wants to come back in free agency.

[KG]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

[lemieuxReturns]

Jake is the kind of player a team who is on the edge of a legit cup run trades for. I would frankly trade him if we are even 1 point out of the playoffs for a ransom that he should bring and then see if he wants to come back in free agency.

Yea, I had the same thoughts but I don't think that happens very often. Has that ever happened before for the Pens? Recchi?

[lemieuxReturns]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

No one here undervalues Jake. The problem is that his value is most likely in the 10M range. I think they can still make it work, but do you want to sign a guy at age 30 to an 8 year deal? Huberdeau is a year older than Jake and is signed for another 7 after this year. But if the Flames eat half or close to half, that would give you a very good player at the 6M range. It is a gamble though. But if you look at his stats, he was a very very good player in Florida for a long time. He has been anything but that in Calgary.

The other point about Jake is, he is the only real asset the Penguins have that can return you something of real value. If KD has intentions of re-signing Jake I would be fine with it but I think at this point, considering what the potential haul would be, and considering that if they do re-sign him, it doesn't make us any closer to winning the cup, I would be more in favor of trading him.

[Wyopen]

Ok, it seems like everyone is in favor of or not averse to signing Jake. He’s going to want a NMC or NTC. Do u give him one? Don’t we have enough players on those types of contracts plus it binds future trades.

[KG]

Rust and Puljujarvi participating in practice today.

[Pitts]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

Does he score like that without Crosby? That is the question that needs to be answered. At any rate, I've made my opinion on trading Jake known. This is the year to do it.

[KG]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

Does he score like that without Crosby? That is the question that needs to be answered. At any rate, I've made my opinion on trading Jake known. This is the year to do it.

I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him, it really depends on several things. Where are we in the standings, what are his contract demands etc? I'm saying if we trade him it better be for more than the Rangers 30th overall pick and some prospect that will never succeed under Sully.

Can't swing and miss here.

[Daniel]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

If Jake were a star player, you could play him with Eller and another scorer and have 3 legit scoring lines and spread the scoring better. Hhow many people are advocating that? You can play Geno or Sid with 4th line players that that automatically becomes a number 1 line, Jake not so much.

Doesn't mean he's not a great player, he absolutely is. He is absolutely worth every penny of whatever contract he gets, which is why he shouldn't sign with the Penguins. 2-3 years, no NMC/NTC on the contract, and sure sign with the Penguins, but he deservices what 8/10M plus NMC? That contract gets the Devils 2-3 cups potentially but adds another 5-8 years to the Penguins rebuilding plan. Trade him to NJ for 2 under 23 year old assets and a 1st round pick and you double the quality prospects in the Penguins system.

[FLPensFan]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

If Jake were a star player, you could play him with Eller and another scorer and have 3 legit scoring lines and spread the scoring better. Hhow many people are advocating that? You can play Geno or Sid with 4th line players that that automatically becomes a number 1 line, Jake not so much.

Doesn't mean he's not a great player, he absolutely is. He is absolutely worth every penny of whatever contract he gets, which is why he shouldn't sign with the Penguins. 2-3 years, no NMC/NTC on the contract, and sure sign with the Penguins, but he deservices what 8/10M plus NMC? That contract gets the Devils 2-3 cups potentially but adds another 5-8 years to the Penguins rebuilding plan. Trade him to NJ for 2 under 23 year old assets and a 1st round pick and you double the quality prospects in the Penguins system.

Complimentary player probably isn't the right term. He's an elite level talent for sure. The problem is, I don't know how much he drives play on his own. I for one think Jake would be successful with Crosby or Malkin, because he had a lot of success with Geno when he first broke into the league.

But if Crosby and Malkin are both out of the lineup...Jake isn't going to take over a game on his own. I think that is what meant more by "complimentary player" by most people.

And I agree that if they do move him, Dubas has to get this right. He needs either a top 10 overall pick, or a very good 23 and under level prospect.

[Daniel]

Jake is on pace for 40 goals and over 90 points. That's star level, not complementary player. Reilly Smith is a complementary player. I get that some want to start the rebuild and move Jake but let's not undervalue what he is and what he has done here. He scores at an elite level at even strength and is a playoff performer. If we trade him, he will be sorely missed and extremely hard to replace.

That said, If we do trade him, I would hope Dubas brings as little money back as possible so he can have more money to spend and replace Jake in UFA with Nylander, Reinhart, Lindholm, Bertuzzi all being projected UFA's

If Jake were a star player, you could play him with Eller and another scorer and have 3 legit scoring lines and spread the scoring better. Hhow many people are advocating that? You can play Geno or Sid with 4th line players that that automatically becomes a number 1 line, Jake not so much.

Doesn't mean he's not a great player, he absolutely is. He is absolutely worth every penny of whatever contract he gets, which is why he shouldn't sign with the Penguins. 2-3 years, no NMC/NTC on the contract, and sure sign with the Penguins, but he deservices what 8/10M plus NMC? That contract gets the Devils 2-3 cups potentially but adds another 5-8 years to the Penguins rebuilding plan. Trade him to NJ for 2 under 23 year old assets and a 1st round pick and you double the quality prospects in the Penguins system.

Complimentary player probably isn't the right term. He's an elite level talent for sure. The problem is, I don't know how much he drives play on his own. I for one think Jake would be successful with Crosby or Malkin, because he had a lot of success with Geno when he first broke into the league.

But if Crosby and Malkin are both out of the lineup...Jake isn't going to take over a game on his own. I think that is what meant more by "complimentary player" by most people.

And I agree that if they do move him, Dubas has to get this right. He needs either a top 10 overall pick, or a very good 23 and under level prospect.

For the sake of this discussion, I’m thinking complementary vs elite as in player to build a team around and everyone else. Maybe a better way would be to put star in between the two and Jake is clearly a star. I just don’t think he’s the kind of player you build a team around.

Either way Jake isn’t someone to bridge the gap between Sid and the next generation nor will he be the difference in another cup win or not. I think with the season he’s having, Dubas can easily get 3 top assets at the deadline. Teams will have more cap space, more teams will bid because of Jake’s playoff history, and that competition will drive up the price. Team like the Devils can use him to get from contender to cup winner and teams like the Sabres and Red Wings can use him to go from almost contender to contender then anything can happen in the playoffs.

I just hope they don’t break the cap space and add another 30+ long term contract with a NMC. Jake is worth it, just not worth in for this version of the Penguins.

[IntangibleBeer]

Like others, I would to see them resign Nedeljkovic.

But let's go a bit further. Given that Jarry's play has leveled out to some extent this season and he has all those shut-outs, why not trade him at the deadline?

Even assuming we are not sellers at the deadline, i.e. we're making the playoffs, is Jarry our goaltender of choice for the post-season? I think not. He's proven that in the playoffs, he is definitely soff.

I think Ned is the future and the future has arrived. Jarry might be worth something useful at the deadline.

[Antonio]

I absolutely would move Jarry if I think they could get real assets back. I think the statistical difference most of the time between a 2m goalie and a 5/7m goalie is negligible and not going to be worth it overall. This team needs to start rebuilding...well they needed to start 3 years ago and if they had retooled then they might be more competitive now but oh well. If they could get value for Jarry, move him. Move Jake also, much as it pains me, because his value is sky high or should be right now. Not as useful as it would have been had we moved/moved on from Malkin and Letang and freed up that 12m for the next 4-6 years and invested in some youth but it is what it is now.

[BigMcK]

NHL Network is broadcasting the Pens Vs Sabres NHL Winter Classic. 2008. Star power players, oh so young. Watching this, it is tough to see the time of an era of amazing talent grow near the end, with little (limited) prospects to replace them.

Which is why the rebuild needs to start at the trade deadline. Guentzel is an asset that should be traded for future players. Outside of Crosby, all prize players should be up for trade. Did Malkin and Letang resign at respectable levels? No, they further hindered the team to advance because They Are The Core.

Fan cult of holding on to former glory I get. To wish for former greatness I don't.

[Wyopen]

NHL Network is broadcasting the Pens Vs Sabres NHL Winter Classic. 2008. Star power players, oh so young. Watching this, it is tough to see the time of an era of amazing talent grow near the end, with little (limited) prospects to replace them.

Which is why the rebuild needs to start at the trade deadline. Guentzel is an asset that should be traded for future players. Outside of Crosby, all prize players should be up for trade. Did Malkin and Letang resign at respectable levels? No, they further hindered the team to advance because They Are The Core.

Fan cult of holding on to former glory I get. To wish for former greatness I don't.

Too bad management doesn’t see the same thing. Sullivan and Crosby adore him, he’s staying no matter what the cost. Boo!

[brwi]

Like others, I would to see them resign Nedeljkovic.

But let's go a bit further. Given that Jarry's play has leveled out to some extent this season and he has all those shut-outs, why not trade him at the deadline?

Even assuming we are not sellers at the deadline, i.e. we're making the playoffs, is Jarry our goaltender of choice for the post-season? I think not. He's proven that in the playoffs, he is definitely soff.

I think Ned is the future and the future has arrived. Jarry might be worth something useful at the deadline.

The goalie market right now is very lopsided with major demand and extremely limited supply, even for a competent backup. Friedman touched on this recently and one GM told him it was like "extortion" with what teams wanted in return for a goaltender. Right now, the GMs aren't going to pay the price and watched league-worst but known quantity and small cap hit(1.5M) Raanta pass through waivers rather than jump.

Some teams seemingly have decided their poor goaltending will keep them out of the playoff picture this year(Ottawa, Buffalo) and deal with it in the off season, but then there are teams on the bubble that are getting crap goaltending that have to be interested like Wings and the Wild to go along with the teams that are supposed to be Cup contenders but their goaltending looks shaky(Carolina, EDM, Leafs, NJ).

If Dubas would consider moving on from Jarry, the time to do it is today. Based on his last 5 seasons, he's about to start being mediocre and mentally checking out. His peak trade value isn't going to rise from here, just go down. Call NJ as they still have a couple of really good prospects in their system and they really need a goaltender more than they do a Guentzel. Whether Jarry is that goaltender though is questionable. I still see Gibson ending up in NJ.

[Puck-Lurker]

Speaking of time to adjust, remember when everyone thought Pettersson was a bust and why did GMJR give him a lucrative extension. People were calling for him to be traded. He needed time to adjust, let’s give Graves the same courtesy.

Peterson wasn't the only guy to take time to settle in, Gonchar and Paul Martin took time too.

And I don’t think anyone was upset when Z. Michalek, Petry and Matheson were traded. And they did okay with other teams post Pens. The same with Gologoski.

I am eating crow for Pettersson. Didn't like the trade and hated the new deal he got. Wow overpaid defenseman number X....

Meanwhile I would rate him one of the 5 best defensive defensemen in the league right now. He is in his prime.

Is make that trade any day of the week and twice on a Tuesday, but i still wonder if a guy like Sprong wouldn't be something we could have brought back. Maybe it's because he's my countryman, I dunno. But Puustinen has some similarity and has created little sparks of added offense. 2M for a middle six, luxury bottom line player... I might have taken that action. He isn't prime Kessel, but he gets on 1st base, so to speak. Looking back, we could've bought some offense there.

Sullivan would of course bench him and out Carter or Harkins in his spot. But he needs to be fired anyway

[Antonio]

Agreed on Petterson. I hated the contract and was proven very wrong.

[FLPensFan]

Like others, I would to see them resign Nedeljkovic.

But let's go a bit further. Given that Jarry's play has leveled out to some extent this season and he has all those shut-outs, why not trade him at the deadline?

Even assuming we are not sellers at the deadline, i.e. we're making the playoffs, is Jarry our goaltender of choice for the post-season? I think not. He's proven that in the playoffs, he is definitely soff.

I think Ned is the future and the future has arrived. Jarry might be worth something useful at the deadline.

The goalie market right now is very lopsided with major demand and extremely limited supply, even for a competent backup. Friedman touched on this recently and one GM told him it was like "extortion" with what teams wanted in return for a goaltender. Right now, the GMs aren't going to pay the price and watched league-worst but known quantity and small cap hit(1.5M) Raanta pass through waivers rather than jump.

Some teams seemingly have decided their poor goaltending will keep them out of the playoff picture this year(Ottawa, Buffalo) and deal with it in the off season, but then there are teams on the bubble that are getting crap goaltending that have to be interested like Wings and the Wild to go along with the teams that are supposed to be Cup contenders but their goaltending looks shaky(Carolina, EDM, Leafs, NJ).

If Dubas would consider moving on from Jarry, the time to do it is today. Based on his last 5 seasons, he's about to start being mediocre and mentally checking out. His peak trade value isn't going to rise from here, just go down. Call NJ as they still have a couple of really good prospects in their system and they really need a goaltender more than they do a Guentzel. Whether Jarry is that goaltender though is questionable. I still see Gibson ending up in NJ.

I think we need to see which Jarry shows up in February and beyond before rushing to move him now. We've all seen the need for goaltending depth. Jarry, Nedeljkovic, Hellberg, then Blomqvist is much stronger depth than Jarry, DeSmith, Tokarski/Domingue was.

Last year, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 8-8-2, .890SV%, 3.26 GAA
The year before, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 11-10-1, .911SV%, 2.86 GAA
The year prior, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 20-6-2, .919SV%, 2.52 GAA

Last year was not good. The 2 year's prior weren't bad...however, while playing about 1/3 less of the games, DeSmith's SV% and GAA were better than Jarry all 3 years over that same stretch.

We need to see more 20-21 Jarry down the stretch, where he went 20-6-2, .919SV% and 2.52 GAA. If he falters again 3 out of the last 4 years, then I'd look to move him this summer or next season...assuming there is a risk taking team out there.

[Puck-Lurker]

Like others, I would to see them resign Nedeljkovic.

But let's go a bit further. Given that Jarry's play has leveled out to some extent this season and he has all those shut-outs, why not trade him at the deadline?

Even assuming we are not sellers at the deadline, i.e. we're making the playoffs, is Jarry our goaltender of choice for the post-season? I think not. He's proven that in the playoffs, he is definitely soff.

I think Ned is the future and the future has arrived. Jarry might be worth something useful at the deadline.

The goalie market right now is very lopsided with major demand and extremely limited supply, even for a competent backup. Friedman touched on this recently and one GM told him it was like "extortion" with what teams wanted in return for a goaltender. Right now, the GMs aren't going to pay the price and watched league-worst but known quantity and small cap hit(1.5M) Raanta pass through waivers rather than jump.

Some teams seemingly have decided their poor goaltending will keep them out of the playoff picture this year(Ottawa, Buffalo) and deal with it in the off season, but then there are teams on the bubble that are getting crap goaltending that have to be interested like Wings and the Wild to go along with the teams that are supposed to be Cup contenders but their goaltending looks shaky(Carolina, EDM, Leafs, NJ).

If Dubas would consider moving on from Jarry, the time to do it is today. Based on his last 5 seasons, he's about to start being mediocre and mentally checking out. His peak trade value isn't going to rise from here, just go down. Call NJ as they still have a couple of really good prospects in their system and they really need a goaltender more than they do a Guentzel. Whether Jarry is that goaltender though is questionable. I still see Gibson ending up in NJ.

I think we need to see which Jarry shows up in February and beyond before rushing to move him now. We've all seen the need for goaltending depth. Jarry, Nedeljkovic, Hellberg, then Blomqvist is much stronger depth than Jarry, DeSmith, Tokarski/Domingue was.

Last year, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 8-8-2, .890SV%, 3.26 GAA
The year before, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 11-10-1, .911SV%, 2.86 GAA
The year prior, February 1st to end of the season, Jarry was 20-6-2, .919SV%, 2.52 GAA

Last year was not good. The 2 year's prior weren't bad...however, while playing about 1/3 less of the games, DeSmith's SV% and GAA were better than Jarry all 3 years over that same stretch.

We need to see more 20-21 Jarry down the stretch, where he went 20-6-2, .919SV% and 2.52 GAA. If he falters again 3 out of the last 4 years, then I'd look to move him this summer or next season...assuming there is a risk taking team out there.

2017-18 - Murray-Jarry-DeSmith 49-26-14 split. Statistically better than Murray, but behind DeSmith.
2018-19 - Jarry did not feature in Pens plans, stats meaningless with 2 game samplesize.
2019-20 - Murray-Jarry 38-31 split. A solid year for Jarry, outplayed Murray, Pens moved on from MM after this season.
2020-21 - Jarry-DeSmith 38-17 split. DeSmith was a little better, but the two were close.
2021-22 - Jarry-DeSmith 58-26 split. Jarry was a bit better than DeSmith.
2022-23 - Jarry-DeSmith 47-38 split. See previous.
2023-24 - Jarry-Nedeljkovic 23-10 split so far. Jarry is a little better.

A goalie that's only a bit better than the backup is what I see. The eyetest is problematic, he can really fall apart in games and make this team uncomfortable. That might be acceptable for a 3.5M goalie that is coming into his own and plays a 35-40 games in a season as a 1B type goaltender. Worse, he's trending down.

But Jarry has 5.375M x 5 with an NTC attached, just unacceptable.

[KG]

Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
The Penguins have recalled defenseman Ryan Shea from the
@WBSPenguins


Wonder why?

[FLPensFan]

Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
The Penguins have recalled defenseman Ryan Shea from the
@WBSPenguins


Wonder why?

Taylor said POJ didn't take the optional skate today, and he almost always does. Apparently, a bug has been going around the locker room (Zohorna was ill the other day). Potentially just insurance in case someone else on defense comes down ill.