doublem wrote:a fundamentally flawed and decaying system.
the inflated costs of medical and health insurance are a direct result of the very things YOU advocate. And yet here you are demanding that the rest of us pay the bills that you are both directly and indirectly responsible for.
So we're all clear, here, what doublem considers to be "ridiculous" is the paying of one's own bills.doublem wrote: No. I would if I had to and have had "bad" jobs but the thinking of Shyster and that mentality is ridiculous.
Working to pay your debts? Sounds quite reasonable, actually.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
Private tyranny.doublem wrote:Whether you want to admit it or not. If we let the market decide everything you would be worshiping at someones feet that would have a lot more power. For someone that is always on the look out for government abuses you sure seem to ignore private tyranny.Guess I'd rather "worship at the foot of the all-knowing market" than worship at your feet.
slappybrown wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Yes, that's clearly what I mean like these people are paying for a new boat or something. Clearly, buying a house and getting medical treatment are basically on the same level here. My argument has nothing to do with why those bills are so high and why people can get tossed around like cattle but yea let's keep making the same point over and over again.Guinness wrote:So we're all clear, here, what doublem considers to be "ridiculous" is the paying of one's own bills.doublem wrote: No. I would if I had to and have had "bad" jobs but the thinking of Shyster and that mentality is ridiculous.
So, Guinness what do you tell those 1 million or so Americans that had to go into bankruptcy to do? Oh, I know WORK HARDER.Guinness wrote:Working to pay your debts? Sounds quite reasonable, actually.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
Tell me, when did you become entitled to my labor?
Guinness wrote:Working to pay your debts? Sounds quite reasonable, actually.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
Tell me, when did you become entitled to my labor?
Hey, sorry, silly me. I haven't figured out the wonders of laissez faire capitalism to solve all of the worlds problems.Guinness wrote:Private tyranny.doublem wrote:Whether you want to admit it or not. If we let the market decide everything you would be worshiping at someones feet that would have a lot more power. For someone that is always on the look out for government abuses you sure seem to ignore private tyranny.Guess I'd rather "worship at the foot of the all-knowing market" than worship at your feet.
Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha!
You really don't understand this, do you?
That was never my point. Never did I preach giving money to charity made you a good person or not a good person. The point by the right is that taxes are too much or immoral, and that lower taxes will solve the problem and they people will give more and more to charity. My point was how do you pay for things that we all use(education, roads, health care) without tax dollars and where has all this charity been coming from to pay for the increasing health care costs or the decaying infrastructure when the income % has been dropping for decades. Oh, and Reagan had no problem with spending money just so it went to bombs and missiles. And what about all those tax cuts for the 1% where is all that trickle down? Why haven't wages improved for the middle class?ExPatriatePen wrote:Guinness wrote:Working to pay your debts? Sounds quite reasonable, actually.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
Tell me, when did you become entitled to my labor?
I'm doing some year end tax planning. So far, my rough numbers show 15% of my income for 2009 was given to charitable organizations or directly to families in need. (I've got some amazing Christmas cards from some wonderful children that are worth every single dime). - Now I admit, my 15% is from income and not capital gains - my excuse is that my estate will give the donations from capital gains.
None the less, EVERY PENNY of my contributions went straight to those in need - NOT BUREAUCRATS !!
19% of that income will go to FEDERAL TAXES. 7% to STATE TAXES. That doesn't even count the Social Security or Medicare or Sales Taxes or Property Taxes etc...
I wish I could do more for charities, but, well, TAXES are killing me.
I guess the 290 plus hours I donated to Habitat for Humanity will have to suffice. (not counting the hundreds of PAID hours my staff has donated to local charities and charitable events such as Susan B. Koman).
Please, DoubleM. Don't preach to me about social responsibility - save that for the Washington DC bureaucrats who think they know better than I do how my money should be spent.
My point is that government needs to get out of the way.
"Government isn't the solution to the problem... Government *IS* the problem!!!!" - Ronald Reagan
I paid for my education by serving my country (GI bill). When I drive to Pittsburgh from NY I use the PA Turnpike and pay a TOLL! As far as health care, don't get me started. I have paid thousands more in insurance premiums over the last 30 plus years than I care to count, and much of those premiums went to pay the health care costs of those who DIDN'T pay for their own health insurance through higher medical costs.doublem wrote:My point was how do you pay for things that we all use(education, roads, health care)
I meant public education not college and the infrastructure that's falling apart but whatever, I'm sure you are opposed to all the spending that the military does?ExPatriatePen wrote:I paid for my education by serving my country (GI bill). When I drive to Pittsburgh from NY I use the PA Turnpike and pay a TOLL! As far as health care, don't get me started. I have paid thousands more in insurance premiums over the last 30 plus years than I care to count, and much of those premiums went to pay the health care costs of those who DIDN'T pay for their own health insurance through higher medical costs.doublem wrote:My point was how do you pay for things that we all use(education, roads, health care)
Noam Chomsky?doublem wrote:...
I'm sorry, am I somehow misrepresenting your response to Shyster?doublem wrote:Yes, that's clearly what I mean like these people are paying for a new boat or something. Clearly, buying a house and getting medical treatment are basically on the same level here. My argument has nothing to do with why those bills are so high and why people can get tossed around like cattle but yea let's keep making the same point over and over again.Guinness wrote:So we're all clear, here, what doublem considers to be "ridiculous" is the paying of one's own bills.doublem wrote: No. I would if I had to and have had "bad" jobs but the thinking of Shyster and that mentality is ridiculous.
Again, when did you (or anyone else) become ENTITLED to my labor?doublem wrote: So, Guinness what do you tell those 1 million or so Americans that had to go into bankruptcy to do? Oh, I know WORK HARDER.
I wasn't talking about a theoretical “someone.” I was talking about you. To be clear, “you” means “doublem.” Nice attempt to deflect into the abstract, though.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
This is the tactic of someone who's getting their rhetorical *** handed to them. Suddenly, "you" becomes "this ambiguous group" that you may or may not belong to...Shyster wrote:I wasn't talking about a theoretical “someone.” I was talking about you. To be clear, “you” means “doublem.” Nice attempt to deflect into the abstract, though.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
Since I said I already paid for myself, let's talk about the rest of population.Shyster wrote:I wasn't talking about a theoretical “someone.” I was talking about you. To be clear, “you” means “doublem.” Nice attempt to deflect into the abstract, though.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
So how did you pay for that ER visit?doublem wrote:Since I said I already paid for myself, let's talk about the rest of population.Shyster wrote:I wasn't talking about a theoretical “someone.” I was talking about you. To be clear, “you” means “doublem.” Nice attempt to deflect into the abstract, though.doublem wrote:Well gee Shyster thanks for the advice. All very helpful and informed thoughts. Next time someone gets sick and can't get insurance becasue they have a pre existing condition I will tell them they aren't being adult enough and maybe the cancer will stop spreading and after they get out of the hospital we can ship them off to work the night shift at Taco Bell to start paying back that debt. How does that sound to you? And all this time I thought we could find another way to pay for all this maybe that model that the rest of the world as been following for some time? Maybe something that didn't turn the sick into indentured servants. Nah, working at Taco Bell and shoveling sidewalks seems more reasonable.
So, really you don't care? I mean that is what you are saying right, becasue if you don't have insurance, can't get insurance, can't pay for it, can't pay off the debt you occur, you die or go into bankruptcy? Once again taking that moral high ground.Guinness wrote:Again, when did you (or anyone else) become ENTITLED to my labor?doublem wrote: So, Guinness what do you tell those 1 million or so Americans that had to go into bankruptcy to do? Oh, I know WORK HARDER.
This is fantastically remarkable. Do you have some kind of mental block? Is your concept of "giving" tied as a matter of doctrine to the State? Those who object to theft "don't care"? Really? It's astounding how idiotic that sounds, and yet that is exactly what you're saying.doublem wrote:So, really you don't care? I mean that is what you are saying right, becasue if you don't have insurance, can't get insurance, can't pay for it, can't pay off the debt you occur, you die or go into bankruptcy? Once again taking that moral high ground.Guinness wrote:Again, when did you (or anyone else) become ENTITLED to my labor?doublem wrote: So, Guinness what do you tell those 1 million or so Americans that had to go into bankruptcy to do? Oh, I know WORK HARDER.
The word incorrigible comes to mind.doublem wrote:So, really you don't care? I mean that is what you are saying right, becasue if you don't have insurance, can't get insurance, can't pay for it, can't pay off the debt you occur, you die or go into bankruptcy? Once again taking that moral high ground.Guinness wrote:Again, when did you (or anyone else) become ENTITLED to my labor?doublem wrote: So, Guinness what do you tell those 1 million or so Americans that had to go into bankruptcy to do? Oh, I know WORK HARDER.
