Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[shmenguin]

You can only use that gif if you're not in the extreme minority

[relantel]

And yet nothing changes the factual accuracy that paterno and co. enabled child rape.

So I see Louis Freeh has joined LGP.

(Sandusky was acquitted of that charge in the McQueary incident -- so even if in your opinion Paterno could have done more (which by law he could not), it still makes your statement false on its face)

[shmenguin]

this thread occasionally needs brought back down to earth. i'm happy to do that.

[shmenguin]

so even if in your opinion Paterno could have done more (which by law he could not)

also, this is a funny statement.

[count2infinity]

I don't really see how either side can stake full claim of being right in this situation... Joe Paterno knew something. The extent of which he knew is unclear. He had to have at least known that Spanier, Schultz and Curley were doing something strange. On the other hand there are the people that have totally bought into Paterno knowing every detail of the cover-up or even actively participating in it. They've eaten up the Freeh report like it was The Gospel according to Louis. As with most things, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle, but carry on...

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

You can only use that gif if you're not in the extreme minority

[DudeMan2766]

I don't really see how either side can stake full claim of being right in this situation... Joe Paterno knew something. The extent of which he knew is unclear. He had to have at least known that Spanier, Schultz and Curley were doing something strange. On the other hand there are the people that have totally bought into Paterno knowing every detail of the cover-up or even actively participating in it. They've eaten up the Freeh report like it was The Gospel according to Louis. As with most things, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle, but carry on...

That's the thing tho. I don't think many people believe Joe was holding these secret meetings like a super villain scheming how to destroy evidence, etc. I even cringe a bit when I hear some people (Madden) say, "Joe enabled child rape." No one believes he was handing Sandusky keys to the facility on the down low, but he knew something was going on, they all did, and did turned a blind eye. The backlash was and is occurring when people like SDD have been going out the way to discredit anything that paints Joe in a bad light, but its strange how no one cares about Spanier, Shultz, or Curley's reputations. No one cares. Joe was the only person on that entire campus that didn't know anything.

[Crankshaft]

so even if in your opinion Paterno could have done more (which by law he could not)

also, this is a funny statement.

Exactly. There are some times when you have to go above the law if something that heinous is happening. A man of JoePa's former stature would have been heralded as a hero - even more so than he already was if that's even possible - if he was the one who spearheaded the campaign to take down a child rapist.

[shmenguin]

he didn't need to go above the law to do more.

[Crankshaft]

Valid point.

[relantel]

so even if in your opinion Paterno could have done more (which by law he could not)

also, this is a funny statement.

Exactly. There are some times when you have to go above the law if something that heinous is happening. A man of JoePa's former stature would have been heralded as a hero - even more so than he already was if that's even possible - if he was the one who spearheaded the campaign to take down a child rapist.

So you would advocate breaking the law? That would have jeopardized the entire prosecution.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

I have defended Spanier, Curley, and Schultz as well. There is less evidence that Paterno did anything wrong then they did, but Paterno gets the most focus because he was the biggest name of the four.

When the majority, if not all, of the evidence against Spanier, Curley, and Schultz, is from the Freeh report, and Freeh has a history of questionable investigations, not only with the FBI but also now as his own entity, you should then question the whole narrative that these guys knew and/or conspired to cover up Sandusky's actions.

[Troy Loney]

So is the idea that the ginger didn't see anything or wasn't specific enough about what was going for Paterno to be responsible?

[Troy Loney]

I have defended Spanier, Curley, and Schultz as well. There is less evidence that Paterno did anything wrong then they did, but Paterno gets the most focus because he was the biggest name of the four.

When the majority, if not all, of the evidence against Spanier, Curley, and Schultz, is from the Freeh report, and Freeh has a history of questionable investigations, not only with the FBI but also now as his own entity, you should then question the whole narrative that these guys knew and/or conspired to cover up Sandusky's actions.

The grand jury investigation was before the Freeh Report..no?

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

I have defended Spanier, Curley, and Schultz as well. There is less evidence that Paterno did anything wrong then they did, but Paterno gets the most focus because he was the biggest name of the four.

When the majority, if not all, of the evidence against Spanier, Curley, and Schultz, is from the Freeh report, and Freeh has a history of questionable investigations, not only with the FBI but also now as his own entity, you should then question the whole narrative that these guys knew and/or conspired to cover up Sandusky's actions.

The grand jury investigation was before the Freeh Report..no?

The grand jury investigation focused on Sandusky and didn't include the emails that were used in the Freeh report. Also the language regarding what McQuery saw was greatly exaggerated in the Grand Jury report compared to what McQuery stated he actually saw in subsequent testimony (pretrial hearing for Schultz, Spanier, and Curley).

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

So is the idea that the ginger didn't see anything or wasn't specific enough about what was going for Paterno to be responsible?

If McQuery wasn't specific about what he saw, it should make a difference between following the law and university policy or going above and beyond that.

Don't you think it is odd for Paterno to have testified that it was something sexual and for Schultz, Curley, and Spanier to not testify in that way? If it truly was a conspiracy wouldn't they all be on the same page?

[shmenguin]

and remember folks, when people at PSU simply use the moniker "Coach" in an e-mail, they aren't referring to Paterno. and when Paterno admitted to hearing about funny business with sandusky and some little kid, he actually didn't admit that because things and stuff.

[relantel]

and remember folks, when people at PSU simply use the moniker "Coach" in an e-mail, they aren't referring to Paterno. and when Paterno admitted to hearing about funny business with sandusky and some little kid, he actually didn't admit that because things and stuff.

Paterno was always "Joe".

[Crankshaft]

SDD - what is your goal with continuing this conversation?

Are you trying to convince people that JoePa and the administration acted appropriately? Even if the Freeh report had flaws, does that take away from what actually happened? Most of the football sanctions were raised.

What do you want to see happen with this situation?

[columbia]

[shmenguin]

and remember folks, when people at PSU simply use the moniker "Coach" in an e-mail, they aren't referring to Paterno. and when Paterno admitted to hearing about funny business with sandusky and some little kid, he actually didn't admit that because things and stuff.

Paterno was always "Joe".

correct. there's no reason i can think of why someone would refer to him as coach.

[count2infinity]

does that take away from what actually happened?

I think this is what he's trying to do... he wants to know and for everyone else to know what actually happened. He feels the story laid out by the media is not what actually happened. That's all well and good, but we're never going to know. Ever. Paterno is dead, Sandusky... well who's going to believe a word out of his mouth, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier aren't going to say a word. Paterno never used e-mail or any sort of traceable communication. The 100% true story is never going to come out.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

SDD - what is your goal with continuing this conversation?

Are you trying to convince people that JoePa and the administration acted appropriately? Even if the Freeh report had flaws, does that take away from what actually happened? Most of the football sanctions were raised.

What do you want to see happen with this situation?

I'd like for people to at least question what they have heard in the media, and dig into the details, and hopefully see that there wasn't a culture at PSU that would put football above the well-being of children.

I agree we don't need to debate this again. I realize I'm not going to change a lot of your minds, but if I find an article that is relevant to the thread, I'm to continue to post it here.

[count2infinity]

It was a handful of people responsible... I don't necessarily think anyone (save for Mark Madden) actually thinks the PSU as a whole condones the raping or molestation of children, and if they truly do feel that way, I think it says more about how absurd they may be than anything else. This relentless crusade; however, to try to convince people Joe didn't do anything wrong, I mean, come on, it's over. Joe could have and likely should have done more.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Why 'Happy Valley' May Change Your Mind About the Penn State Scandal

At a New York screening last night, NBC sportscaster Bob Costas introduced Amir Bar-Lev's latest documentary on the Penn State scandal and challenged us all to open our minds to all perspectives of the events that occurred.

Bar-Lev's film aims to expose the deep complexities and moral ambiguity of a narrative that the public didn't seem to fully understand at the time.

Costas prefaced the film by explaining, "What much of America and what much of the media decided was the truth a couple of years ago is largely in doubt right now. There are so many areas of gray. There are so many areas of nuance that were passed over. There are so many questions as yet unanswered."

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