LGP Political Discussion Thread

[doublem]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/16/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ohhhhhhh

[Guinness]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/16/ ... index.html
Ohhhhhhh

"Dunn, taped in a speech in what appears to be a church, said the leader's philosophies were a guidepost for her own strategy on politics."

Yeah that's really not making it any better, at least not in my book.

"Media Matters for America, a liberal media watchdog group, points out that former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, also a Fox News contributor, quoted Mao in a 1995 Roll Call profile.

"War is politics with blood; politics is war without blood," Gingrich said, citing Mao.

Karl Rove, another Fox News contributor, wrote in a December 2008 Wall Street Journal op-ed that President Bush "encouraged me to read a Mao biography.""

Yikes! First she aligns herself with Mao, now Bush, Rove and Gingrich? All that does is confirm that her political philosophy is evil and corrupt, and that there's really no difference between the D's and the R's.

[tjand72]

I truly wish that we could overcome the binary state of mind of politics and be more open to other ways of thinking. I'm not a floater or flip-flopper, but there is a better way to govern the country rather than choose one side and stick with it through thick and thin. If there were a better choice, I would select it in a heartbeat, but, as of now, it is a wasted vote to choose someone outside of the two accepted parties.

I don't know what it will take, but this country will not survive without at least a third party.

[Guinness]

I truly wish that we could overcome the binary state of mind of politics and be more open to other ways of thinking. I'm not a floater or flip-flopper, but there is a better way to govern the country rather than choose one side and stick with it through thick and thin. If there were a better choice, I would select it in a heartbeat, but, as of now, it is a wasted vote to choose someone outside of the two accepted parties.

I don't know what it will take, but this country will not survive without at least a third party.

I've vowed never to vote for a D or an R again, unless the inconceivable were to happen and Ron Paul were to win the Republican nomination in '12. But that won't happen - the Republicans would never nominate him, so I'm safe.

I know what you mean about the wasted vote. I'm a registered independent so I can't vote in the primaries, and in the general election, I look at my vote like this - I don't make a choice between "the lesser of two evils" - that's still voting for evil. I look at my vote for anybody-but-a-D-or-an-R as a tally in the column against the two-headed monster. The more people begin to vote for the non-viable third parties, the more viable they become.

[MWB]

I've vowed never to vote for a D or an R again

Isn't that just as bad as someone who says they vote straight D or straight R in every election? It's deciding just on generalizations rather on individual merit.

[Guinness]

I've vowed never to vote for a D or an R again

Isn't that just as bad as someone who says they vote straight D or straight R in every election? It's deciding just on generalizations rather on individual merit.

Perhaps "vow" is too strong a word. Luckily, I haven't found any D's or R's (again, save Ron Paul, for whom I cannot vote) that would break that "guideline". It's really more about protesting the fact that the two-headed, one-party monster has taken our political system hostage.

[bh]

I've vowed never to vote for a D or an R again

Isn't that just as bad as someone who says they vote straight D or straight R in every election? It's deciding just on generalizations rather on individual merit.

Perhaps "vow" is too strong a word. Luckily, I haven't found any D's or R's (again, save Ron Paul, for whom I cannot vote) that would break that "guideline". It's really more about protesting the fact that the two-headed, one-party monster has taken our political system hostage.

I've posted it before (in this thread I believe) but I'll say it again. The voting system we have greatly contributes to creating this two headed monster. As long as we have a plurality voting system, 3rd parties really have zero chance. Plurality voting tends polarize on every issue and in every election. Unfortunately congress is elected by this system and without a HUGE outcry from the populace, will not change a system that entrenches their two parties. There is also nothing in the Constitution that states how we are to vote, just that we are to. Plurality voting is one of the worst systems out there. The two party system in the USA started from day 1 with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalists.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/better-voting2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://rangevoting.org/ConstVt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[doublem]

And if we somehow get a third party in this country( which will never happen), but what is stopping them from being owned by the same influences that most are in the current system?

[Guinness]

And if we somehow get a third party in this country( which will never happen), but what is stopping them from being owned by the same influences that most are in the current system?

You know, you're right. Ultimately, the answer is the vigilance of the people... but what bh is suggesting would lend aid to that effort; and I'm all for it.

I know Glenn Beck is a polarizing figure. I don't particularly care for him myself. That being said, I just finished watching his "Obama Care: A Second Opinion" special and I have to give him 1 point over the president: at least he had a dissenting opinion in the backdrop for his position statement.

[HomerPenguin]

I've posted it before (in this thread I believe) but I'll say it again. The voting system we have greatly contributes to creating this two headed monster. As long as we have a plurality voting system, 3rd parties really have zero chance. Plurality voting tends polarize on every issue and in every election. Unfortunately congress is elected by this system and without a HUGE outcry from the populace, will not change a system that entrenches their two parties. There is also nothing in the Constitution that states how we are to vote, just that we are to. Plurality voting is one of the worst systems out there. The two party system in the USA started from day 1 with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalists.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/better-voting2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://rangevoting.org/ConstVt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes yes yes. Reforming the way we vote is absolutely vital, which is why it will never happen. Something also has to be done to keep corporations from buying congressional representatives too, but that's never going to happen either.

[bh]

I've posted it before (in this thread I believe) but I'll say it again. The voting system we have greatly contributes to creating this two headed monster. As long as we have a plurality voting system, 3rd parties really have zero chance. Plurality voting tends polarize on every issue and in every election. Unfortunately congress is elected by this system and without a HUGE outcry from the populace, will not change a system that entrenches their two parties. There is also nothing in the Constitution that states how we are to vote, just that we are to. Plurality voting is one of the worst systems out there. The two party system in the USA started from day 1 with the Democratic-Republican Party and the Federalists.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/better-voting2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://rangevoting.org/ConstVt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes yes yes. Reforming the way we vote is absolutely vital, which is why it will never happen. Something also has to be done to keep corporations from buying congressional representatives too, but that's never going to happen either.

Yeah, these are probably my top two things I'd like changed immediately. I can see the voting reform happening sometime, and once changed it should be easy to keep it changed. But how do you stop corporations from buying whatever they want? My mind has very few ideas for that problem.

[doublem]

And if we somehow get a third party in this country( which will never happen), but what is stopping them from being owned by the same influences that most are in the current system?

You know, you're right. Ultimately, the answer is the vigilance of the people... but what bh is suggesting would lend aid to that effort; and I'm all for it.

I know Glenn Beck is a polarizing figure. I don't particularly care for him myself. That being said, I just finished watching his "Obama Care: A Second Opinion" special and I have to give him 1 point over the president: at least he had a dissenting opinion in the backdrop for his position statement.

I'm for two new parties. The progressives on the left and the Libertarians on the right. I think that is the direction the country is heading, but we will never get it.

[Guinness]

I'm for two new parties. The progressives on the left and the Libertarians on the right. I think that is the direction the country is heading, but we will never get it.

Do you really think? I hope... there isn't a single libertarian voice in the "mainstream" media, and the only true libertarian politician is Ron Paul.

The R's talk about fiscal responsibility now that they're out, but even now they beat the war drums. Unfortunately, the D's are similar in that they talk about peace and non-intervention, but as we see, talk is about all it is.

[doublem]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/19/pf/coll ... 2009102013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Colleges and universities are capitalizing on that more than any other institution in the economy. If you walk around a shopping mall, nobody else is raising prices at the same rate.

[pittsoccer33]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/19/pf/coll ... 2009102013

Colleges and universities are capitalizing on that more than any other institution in the economy. If you walk around a shopping mall, nobody else is raising prices at the same rate.

college should be expensive. its extremely valuable. what you pay only covers a fraction of what it costs to educate you. i could never have been hired for the position i have without both a bachelors degree in finance and wall street internships. all that debt was well worth it.

[doublem]

college should be expensive. its extremely valuable.

So, doesn't that mean it should be cheaper if its that valuable? Shouldn't we want as many people as possible going to college if its that important? Which I don't think it even is true. Companies just want to see that you have a degree, but I'm sure there are a ton of qualified people for jobs that could get them if it wasn't for having a degree.

[pittsoccer33]

college should be expensive. its extremely valuable.

So, doesn't that mean it should be cheaper if its that valuable? Shouldn't we want as many people as possible going to college if its that important? Which I don't think it even is true. Companies just want to see that you have a degree, but I'm sure there are a ton of qualified people for jobs that could get them if it wasn't for having a degree.

a ferrari 250 gto is valuable and those arent getting any cheaper. going to college isnt important in and of itself. if your parents are loaded and you want to go get a philosophy degree then god bless you, that doenst teach any quantifiable skill other than maybe abstract analysis. that won't help sway a hiring manager in a credit policy department when he has a choice with jefferies or deuschte bank interns.

if you want to support yourself and a family after school then obtaining a degree in engineering/physical sciences or business would be much more beneficial. if that isnt an interest, then become a plumber or electrician or contractor, all of those will provide $100K+ jobs if you apply yourself.

as much as id rather not have a "real" job for the rest of my life I know that I'll never get anywhere in life that way.

[doublem]

a ferrari 250 gto is valuable and those arent getting any cheaper.

Is buying a car and the increases cost of a college education really on the same level here? If you don't buy a ferrari you can still get another car, if you don't have a degree in today's world, it makes it very difficult to get a decent paying job. I doubt the price of a ferrari has gone up like the price of a college education. The increases cost of a college education increase the borrowing level of the nation. I thought we were trying to stop that? The higher the cost go the harder it is for people to support themselves and a family.

[Sarcastic]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/19/pf/coll ... 2009102013

Colleges and universities are capitalizing on that more than any other institution in the economy. If you walk around a shopping mall, nobody else is raising prices at the same rate.

college should be expensive. its extremely valuable. what you pay only covers a fraction of what it costs to educate you. i could never have been hired for the position i have without both a bachelors degree in finance and wall street internships. all that debt was well worth it.

WTF are you talking about? Look around how much they pay for schooling in Europe. It's a benefit to have an intelligent, productive, society. The Europeans understand that. We produce retards here and give them a nice start in life, 100K in debt in some cases. This is the same BS as with the insurance companies. The rich rip people off, get richer, while stupid Americans go for the ride without a complaint because they're busy watching Simpsons.

Sorry. My European background kicked in.

[DelPen]

I just love how some organizations like the Washington Post and ABC are skewing their samples to show a strong Democrat majority in their polls to show some glimpse of support for Obamacare. But then Rassmusen, Gallop, Harris and even CNN show that the people don't like Obama's policies. Their response? Attack Fox News and claim it's not a real news organization and turn around the next day has an off the record meeting with Rachel Maddow and Keith olberman, not exactly the poster cildren of hard news.

It's amazing how inept this administration is. Not saying McCain would have been any better, in fact that pandering clown may have been worse, but if Obama wasn't trying to ram through extremely destructive bills like the stimulus, has already been a total failure, and Obamacare and Cap-n-trade are going to raise taxes and saddle us with debt, I'd be laughing at them.

[Gaucho]

Education should be free, period.

[shafnutz05]

Education should be free, period.

A high school education? Absolutely. But free college? Come on man. It's the same thing with the health insurance debate...everyone thinks the humanitarian argument that everyone should be entitled free health insurance courtesy of their government is completely unattackable. Everyone should get free college as well? Who is going to pay for that? Are we going to build hundreds (if not several thousand) additional universities to accomodate the increasing demand?

My brother-in-law did the Vo-Tech program at our high school....he is now making upwards of $150,000 a year as a construction foreman 10 years out of high school. Healthcare is not a constitutional right...and neither is a college education. How many things are we going to make rights? Central air for people living in the south? A car? A backyard with a white picket fence?

There is a reason why so many European countries are swinging back to the right at the present time. The citizens are realizing that you cannot simply make everything free without consequence, and the European Left is experienced the backlash. This is what scares me about so-called "progressive" liberal thought. It is centered around the notion that government has a responsibility not just to ensure the security of her citizens, but to provide for every single need (and often desire) that the individual requires. This is simply not a sustainable system.

Does anyone actually believe the Liar of the House Pelosi when she says this bill is going to be "budget-neutral"? Look at the cost projections for Medicare, Social Security, and countless other bills from when they first came out. The estimates were a fraction of what the cost turned out to be...if that trend holds true with Obamacare (and I am sure it will), this country will be completely bankrupt. And by the time we, our children, and our grandchildren suffer the horrible consequences, the people that orchestrated this mess will be long dead.

Please think with your brain, as well as your heart. While it might seem logical that every single American (legal or not) should have the "right" to free healthcare, education, and God knows what else, it is NOT SUSTAINABLE. Even the Europeans are finding that out right now.

[Geezer]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568743,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More wisdom from the most influential American Muslim.

[shafnutz05]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568743,00.html
More wisdom from the most influential American Muslim.

Farrakhan should have been euthanized a while ago. He is one of the biggest igniters of racism in America today.

[HomerPenguin]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568743,00.html
More wisdom from the most influential American Muslim.

The Nation of Islam is to Islam what Mormonism is to Christianity; it strays so far from the core doctrines that it becomes a separate thing entirely. Malcolm X's conversion from NOI to Sunni Islam was a major part of his break with the Nation.