Rocco wrote:I don't know if I'd go that far. I guess I'd say that people are using "culture change" because they can but they don't really know what it means or if it means anything. I'll quote Spencer Hall again:
They will use the word "culture" to defend what they do, mostly because using that word allows you to make up whatever you like without evidence, justification, or data.
IKTKHO, Hall is just playing the fool and is acting no differently than the Joe Paterno fans who argue that the email in the free report arent valid because they don't specifically spell out JOE PATERNO in big bold letters.
This isn't a court case where you have to show a bunch of jurors a bunch of evidence to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt.
From an accountants standpoint, what you and hall are saying reminds me a lot of what the accountants at Enron were saying about a lot of their financial shenanigans.
AlexPKeaton wrote:I just read that the free transfers are only allowed within the conference? Can anyone else confirm or deny this? That sounds SUPER shady if true.
I thought free transfers were allowed within the conference, in addition to all other conferences. "In addition" being the operative word.
Sarcastic wrote:
Are there other people who were rumored to be involved and did not face charges as of yet? Curious about that, since I didn't follow the case too closely.
Not sure all those details. Like you, I've been kind of following from a distance.
Curley, Schultz, Spanier, Paterno. That's who we know is involved. Oh and maybe a few janitors, but because they blamed their inaction on being scared of a dead football coach, and being janitors, they are obviously not held to the same ethical standards as a college football coach and won't be prosecuted.
Who are these Curley, Schultz, Spanier guys and were they arrested?
Who knows if he will live up to his words, but I respect the hell out of BOB.
Rebuilding things starts with people like him, so let's hope he is sincere about this.
(I don't know anything about the guy, but I assume he's not like "high octane".)
I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Rocco wrote:I don't know if I'd go that far. I guess I'd say that people are using "culture change" because they can but they don't really know what it means or if it means anything. I'll quote Spencer Hall again:
They will use the word "culture" to defend what they do, mostly because using that word allows you to make up whatever you like without evidence, justification, or data.
IKTKHO, Hall is just playing the fool and is acting no differently than the Joe Paterno fans who argue that the email in the free report arent valid because they don't specifically spell out JOE PATERNO in big bold letters.
This isn't a court case where you have to show a bunch of jurors a bunch of evidence to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt.
From an accountants standpoint, what you and hall are saying reminds me a lot of what the accountants at Enron were saying about a lot of their financial shenanigans.
Hall has no obedience to Paterno or PSU. Hall's point from the beginning has been that this matter is way bigger than anything the NCAA was ever meant to deal with. (His analogy from the beginning was it was akin to having a HOA investigate a triple murder.) And while it's not a standard court case, there are rules that generally need followed that weren't followed here.
The difference between Enron and PSU is that Enron was punished by organizations that clearly had the grounds to punish Enron, namely the Department of Justice and the bankruptcy courts. The fact that the only way the NCAA could do what it did today was because PSU agreed not to fight it pretty much says they didn't have the authority to do what they did.
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Is "changing the culture" going to involve telling people to take down statues of coaches?
Rocco wrote:I don't know if I'd go that far. I guess I'd say that people are using "culture change" because they can but they don't really know what it means or if it means anything. I'll quote Spencer Hall again:
They will use the word "culture" to defend what they do, mostly because using that word allows you to make up whatever you like without evidence, justification, or data.
IKTKHO, Hall is just playing the fool and is acting no differently than the Joe Paterno fans who argue that the email in the free report arent valid because they don't specifically spell out JOE PATERNO in big bold letters.
This isn't a court case where you have to show a bunch of jurors a bunch of evidence to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt.
From an accountants standpoint, what you and hall are saying reminds me a lot of what the accountants at Enron were saying about a lot of their financial shenanigans.
Hall has no obedience to Paterno or PSU. Hall's point from the beginning has been that this matter is way bigger than anything the NCAA was ever meant to deal with. (His analogy from the beginning was it was akin to having a HOA investigate a triple murder.) And while it's not a standard court case, there are rules that generally need followed that weren't followed here.
The difference between Enron and PSU is that Enron was punished by organizations that clearly had the grounds to punish Enron, namely the Department of Justice and the bankruptcy courts. The fact that the only way the NCAA could do what it did today was because PSU agreed not to fight it pretty much says they didn't have the authority to do what they did.
It's a private organization and can do anything they damn well please, in regard to dictating the terms of a member's standing within said organization; whether you like it or not.
If Penn State hadn't signed and decided to sue, they could have said, "Fine, you're out of the NCAA."
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
I don't necessarily agree, but the culture to change is the culture in which a football coach's power exceeds that of the President and the Board of Trustees. I don't think anyone is out to get those tailgaters and people who paint their faces white and blue.
To be fair to PSU, they're certainly not the only school beholden to an athletics coach.
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Is "changing the culture" going to involve telling people to take down statues of coaches?
Not 100% sure I get where you're going with that. I think it's known in this thread that I am PSU alum. My point is, the attitude of the fans isn't going to be changed by these sanctions, and if anything the fanbase as a whole will be more 'obnoxious/loud/overbearing' or whatever people want to call it once the program essentially starts back up again.
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Is "changing the culture" going to involve telling people to take down statues of coaches?
Not 100% sure I get where you're going with that. I think it's known in this thread that I am PSU alum. My point is, the attitude of the fans isn't going to be changed by these sanctions, and if anything the fanbase as a whole will be more 'obnoxious/loud/overbearing' or whatever people want to call it once the program essentially starts back up again.
I'm just trying to figure out what people mean by changing the culture.
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Is "changing the culture" going to involve telling people to take down statues of coaches?
Not 100% sure I get where you're going with that. I think it's known in this thread that I am PSU alum. My point is, the attitude of the fans isn't going to be changed by these sanctions, and if anything the fanbase as a whole will be more 'obnoxious/loud/overbearing' or whatever people want to call it once the program essentially starts back up again.
I'm just trying to figure out what people mean by changing the culture.
steve784 wrote:I really don't understand the 'culture change' aspect. Honestly, knowing PSU the way I do, all I see this doing is giving the base a bigger chip on the shoulder, and coming back even more obnoxious and loud once the program is back on track.
Is "changing the culture" going to involve telling people to take down statues of coaches?
Not 100% sure I get where you're going with that. I think it's known in this thread that I am PSU alum. My point is, the attitude of the fans isn't going to be changed by these sanctions, and if anything the fanbase as a whole will be more 'obnoxious/loud/overbearing' or whatever people want to call it once the program essentially starts back up again.
I don't think changing fan opinion is really the goal.
columbia wrote:It's a private organization and can do anything they damn well please, in regard to dictating the terms of a member's standing within said organization; whether you like it or not.
If Penn State hadn't signed and decided to sue, they could have said, "Fine, you're out of the NCAA."
Which of course would have wrecked everything about PSU and given the NCAA zero cover for their actions. I doubt the NCAA had any interest in pulling the pin on that grenade.
