A Reality Check for Penguins Fans

[Puck-Lurker]

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.


But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

Never said he was amazing or great goalie, in fact I hate that I have to even defend the guy because I don’t even like him. But the outrageous comments from you and other Jarry haters that continue to ignore the facts force me to.

7-3-3 in his last 13 games. How does that translate into Jarry gives this team zero chance to win or the floor has fallen out?? It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why he was signed to a 5 year deal and why he is still getting starts over the other options right now. Just look at his stats.

Okay, dude, stopping the hockey puck is clearly not a thing that interests you in a goalie and that's okay. Clearly that's outrageous, insane and hateful of me to think that matters.

I looked at his stats. I ignored goalies with less than 10 games.

.887 SV% -- #50 in the league
3.43 GAA -- #53 in the league

But you don't seem to want to engage with what I wrote, so I'll stop taking the bait from your rather persistent straw manning.

So you would be happier with his performance if he was 3-7-3 right now with a .925 SV% and 2.55 GAA? Right?

Crazy.

Okay, you're either wildly incompetent at replying to posts, or malicious. I had assumed the former for a while, I'm seeing the latter confirmed. No engagement with my posts other than "you're crazy, insane, hater, whatever". Cherry picked *team* stats on a nice little repetition. And of course replacing whatever I posted, with some ridiculous exaggeration distortion you then pontificate against (and do so extremely poorly). You're nuts and I've nothing to say to you ever again.

[Cow_Master66]

That win against the Oilers is just the kind of thing to trick everyone into thinking they can make the playoffs.

Now they'll blow more 2+ goal leads in the 3rd against Seattle and Buffalo.

Sad but true.

I want to believe.. but I just can't. They have, by and large, played pretty well of late. Results or no, they've been improved and improving. It's just those results keep us around .500

Most of us thought we would lose 8-4 when Edmonton scored their 2nd goal.

[penscup]

Okay, you're either wildly incompetent at replying to posts, or malicious. I had assumed the former for a while, I'm seeing the latter confirmed. No engagement with my posts other than "you're crazy, insane, hater, whatever". Cherry picked *team* stats on a nice little repetition. And of course replacing whatever I posted, with some ridiculous exaggeration distortion you then pontificate against (and do so extremely poorly). You're nuts and I've nothing to say to you ever again.

I think you are overreacting a bit just like you overreact every time Jarry is net. I don’t truly think you are truly insane, just your opinion about Jarry. You are the one who refuses to admit that he has played decently over the past month. Just decent, not great, not amazing, just decent. Instead you throw outlandish statements like “he should never get another start for the Pens again.” Now, you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to point out how very wrong I think your opinion is in fact. I actually enjoy much of your other comments on other areas of the team and appreciate your insight most of the time. I don’t quite understand why you refuse to give Jarry any credit for the strong play he shows at times, but so be it.

Yes he is inconsistent we can all agree on that. But why not wait to see how the next month goes? Is it so bad that he is 7-3-3 in his last 13 starts? Don’t you want to see him play well so maybe the Pens can unload his contract on a team willing to give him another shot? I would think you would love that scenario to actually become a reality someday.

[Stillerz Bar]

Saw an interesting stat recently....

Toews, Kane, Kopitar and Crosby won a combined 11 Stanley Cups. However, they have won a combined one playoff series after the age of 30.

[Pens4Life]

Just bring Larsson and Murashov to NHL next season

[pronovost19]

This is what happens when you hold assets too long. 2020 bubble was when the writing was on the wall.

Historically, there are many examples of the same phenomenon. Tampa won a cup and held on to Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards too long.

Colorado held onto Sakic, Tanguay and Forsberg too long.

A lot of bad years follow when you let emotions run your organization.

I said in 2020 welcome to post cup Tampa. Everyone laughed at me. Parting with greats is hard but part of the business. Knowing when to cut your losses is vital.

Now it has trickled down even further. Ned would gave gotten a good return last year. Now. Nope. So the trickle down effect makes it worse. The Penguins won cups with young hungry guys on the third and fourth lines. Kuhnhackels, Loneys, Wilsons. Now, we get old washed up dudes instead of building through the organization.

[Puck-Lurker]

This is what happens when you hold assets too long. 2020 bubble was when the writing was on the wall.

Historically, there are many examples of the same phenomenon. Tampa won a cup and held on to Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards too long.

Colorado held onto Sakic, Tanguay and Forsberg too long.

A lot of bad years follow when you let emotions run your organization.

I said in 2020 welcome to post cup Tampa. Everyone laughed at me. Parting with greats is hard but part of the business. Knowing when to cut your losses is vital.

Now it has trickled down even further. Ned would gave gotten a good return last year. Now. Nope. So the trickle down effect makes it worse. The Penguins won cups with young hungry guys on the third and fourth lines. Kuhnhackels, Loneys, Wilsons. Now, we get old washed up dudes instead of building through the organization.

I will defend Dubas for not trading Ned at the previous deadline. Pens were 3 points out of WC2, with a game in hand on one of the teams in their waty. This was the year Dubas picked up veterans to stack the bottom and picked up Karlsson to make a swing for the fences.

He did trade away Guentzel as a rental, as he should have. Ned he had every chance to bring back, his value went up at the end of the season, and back down during this one.

Keeping Ned and bringing him back made sense. Because a certain other goaltender wasn't really trusted to get it done. I don't think there was much of a window to trade him, or any likely takers. As I said he only became more valuable after the deadline.

[brwi]

Just bring Larsson and Murashov to NHL next season

No love for Blomqvist? My concern first and foremost on Pens' goaltending is Musharov playing in the ECHL because no room in AHL as Blom/Larsson are there. Blom probably needs to be in the NHL now as at least the backup so Musharov can move up to better competition in the A. Now as far as who goes off the Pens' roster, just dump whichever you can. Jarry's long history of decent numbers until after the All Star break and coming up small in big situations along with his bad contract will make that tough. Ned's backup quality but affordable so he probably goes. The key is opening up space now for the future goaltenders as Jarry/Ned sure aren't.

[pronovost19]

This is what happens when you hold assets too long. 2020 bubble was when the writing was on the wall.

Historically, there are many examples of the same phenomenon. Tampa won a cup and held on to Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards too long.

Colorado held onto Sakic, Tanguay and Forsberg too long.

A lot of bad years follow when you let emotions run your organization.

I said in 2020 welcome to post cup Tampa. Everyone laughed at me. Parting with greats is hard but part of the business. Knowing when to cut your losses is vital.

Now it has trickled down even further. Ned would gave gotten a good return last year. Now. Nope. So the trickle down effect makes it worse. The Penguins won cups with young hungry guys on the third and fourth lines. Kuhnhackels, Loneys, Wilsons. Now, we get old washed up dudes instead of building through the organization.

I will defend Dubas for not trading Ned at the previous deadline. Pens were 3 points out of WC2, with a game in hand on one of the teams in their waty. This was the year Dubas picked up veterans to stack the bottom and picked up Karlsson to make a swing for the fences.

He did trade away Guentzel as a rental, as he should have. Ned he had every chance to bring back, his value went up at the end of the season, and back down during this one.

Keeping Ned and bringing him back made sense. Because a certain other goaltender wasn't really trusted to get it done. I don't think there was much of a window to trade him, or any likely takers. As I said he only became more valuable after the deadline.

Fair enough on Ned. Not like his return was that much better last year anyways.

[FLPensFan]

Just bring Larsson and Murashov to NHL next season

No love for Blomqvist? My concern first and foremost on Pens' goaltending is Musharov playing in the ECHL because no room in AHL as Blom/Larsson are there. Blom probably needs to be in the NHL now as at least the backup so Musharov can move up to better competition in the A. Now as far as who goes off the Pens' roster, just dump whichever you can. Jarry's long history of decent numbers until after the All Star break and coming up small in big situations along with his bad contract will make that tough. Ned's backup quality but affordable so he probably goes. The key is opening up space now for the future goaltenders as Jarry/Ned sure aren't.

In terms of Jarry, I really think the best hope is having someone like Vancouver, Calgary, or Edmonton have interest in him, so he can play close to home. But, I know nothing. Maybe that doesn't even interest him. I'd also say that I have zero faith that a 29 year old goalie is going to magically break his habits of folding in the 2nd half, constantly failing to come up with big, timely saves, or any other bad habits he has.

On Ned, maybe some will say it is nitpicking or hindsight, but it seems like a bad decision by Dubas to sign Ned for 2 years. We had Blomqvist pushing for NHL work, Dubas signed Larsson in April, and Gauthier was ECHL goalie of the year. Murashov status came in after Ned was signed, but with Larsson a bit older and Blomqvist's play last year, seems like all Dubas did was make things more complicated for himself.

I'm hoping someone has interest in some goalie depth that we can move on from Ned at the deadline, and at worst over the summer. Larsson has played well enough to get a backup role, and it's not out of the question to let Blomqvist take the backup role either. Murashov needs to get AHL minutes next season. I was worried about him in the ECHL, but he seems to have a very good attitude about it...but he can't be there next year. Penguins will also need to decide how Gauthier fits in those plans, because he's playing well again in the ECHL. He really gains nothing by playing there for a 3rd season in a row.

From what I have heard, the team still considers Murashov at the top of the food chain in the long-term mix.

[Puck-Lurker]

Just bring Larsson and Murashov to NHL next season

No love for Blomqvist? My concern first and foremost on Pens' goaltending is Musharov playing in the ECHL because no room in AHL as Blom/Larsson are there. Blom probably needs to be in the NHL now as at least the backup so Musharov can move up to better competition in the A. Now as far as who goes off the Pens' roster, just dump whichever you can. Jarry's long history of decent numbers until after the All Star break and coming up small in big situations along with his bad contract will make that tough. Ned's backup quality but affordable so he probably goes. The key is opening up space now for the future goaltenders as Jarry/Ned sure aren't.

In terms of Jarry, I really think the best hope is having someone like Vancouver, Calgary, or Edmonton have interest in him, so he can play close to home. But, I know nothing. Maybe that doesn't even interest him. I'd also say that I have zero faith that a 29 year old goalie is going to magically break his habits of folding in the 2nd half, constantly failing to come up with big, timely saves, or any other bad habits he has.

On Ned, maybe some will say it is nitpicking or hindsight, but it seems like a bad decision by Dubas to sign Ned for 2 years. We had Blomqvist pushing for NHL work, Dubas signed Larsson in April, and Gauthier was ECHL goalie of the year. Murashov status came in after Ned was signed, but with Larsson a bit older and Blomqvist's play last year, seems like all Dubas did was make things more complicated for himself.

I'm hoping someone has interest in some goalie depth that we can move on from Ned at the deadline, and at worst over the summer. Larsson has played well enough to get a backup role, and it's not out of the question to let Blomqvist take the backup role either. Murashov needs to get AHL minutes next season. I was worried about him in the ECHL, but he seems to have a very good attitude about it...but he can't be there next year. Penguins will also need to decide how Gauthier fits in those plans, because he's playing well again in the ECHL. He really gains nothing by playing there for a 3rd season in a row.

From what I have heard, the team still considers Murashov at the top of the food chain in the long-term mix.

I think Dubas had a bit of a panic when Ned (had to) take over at the bottom of last season. I figure he planned that he couldn't rely on Jarry as a pure #1, so he brought back Ned so that he could 1A 1B. Blomqvist was in the radar, but he didn't want to roll the dice that he could take duties in Pittsburgh. So he acquired Larsson to get a bit of competition and security in net depth. I imagine that's because he was available and he moved on it, despite having Gauthier.

I figure he thought he'd play musical chairs with those 5 for four positions. Whoever gets to the ECHL would be an injury away from the AHL.

Then Murashov showed up for camp with intent to stay. That must have shaken things up. Rather than juggling 5 goalies for 4 spots, Pens have 6. Really sucks for Gauthier who has played very well in the ECHL but by all reports I'm aware if, he's the least of the six. Murashov has only just arrived and the difference between MHL or ECHL.. I don't imagine he's disappointed just yet. His time will come.

Blomqvist has had time up in the NHL and looked fine mostly, though he had some rough games too. Can't imagine he's too disappointed, yet. He's been number 3 in the org and might move up the moment any trade happens. Probably Ned.

Larsson I think could do with time in the NHL. He moved from being one of the best in the SHL and I don't think he came over for 3 years nonstop in the AHL. If anyone gets injured call him up, or if they're healthy. Neither Ned nor Jarry has been convincing recently.

[Antonio]

Seriously if you jettisoned both and went with something like blom and mura and saved like 7 million a year, how much worse could it really be?

[Pens4Life]

Just bring Larsson and Murashov to NHL next season

No love for Blomqvist? My concern first and foremost on Pens' goaltending is Musharov playing in the ECHL because no room in AHL as Blom/Larsson are there. Blom probably needs to be in the NHL now as at least the backup so Musharov can move up to better competition in the A. Now as far as who goes off the Pens' roster, just dump whichever you can. Jarry's long history of decent numbers until after the All Star break and coming up small in big situations along with his bad contract will make that tough. Ned's backup quality but affordable so he probably goes. The key is opening up space now for the future goaltenders as Jarry/Ned sure aren't.

Yeah, Blomquist is good.. but I think Larsson is currently more NHL ready,also more experianced, Murashov is just outstanding, extra talent.. already better in my eyes than Blom.

[FLPensFan]

Taylor Haase wrote a piece yesterday, talking about how neither goalie on the NHL roster is the answer:

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -jarry-tlh

[thehockeyguru]

Taylor Haase wrote a piece yesterday, talking about how neither goalie on the NHL roster is the answer:

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -jarry-tlh

She's right

[Skatingpen]

A boatload of goalies and none of them are good enough????

[FLPensFan]

Taylor Haase wrote a piece yesterday, talking about how neither goalie on the NHL roster is the answer:

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -jarry-tlh

She's right

Yep, and DK has had several articles over the past few months with the same theme:

DK: Stop trying to make Jarry happen ... because he sure isn't.

DK: What's more important, Jarry or making the playoffs?

(no links in their feeds to those articles, but those are the titles)

[FLPensFan]

A boatload of goalies and none of them are good enough????

Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone said that. I think the issue is we'd be better off going with any of the goalies we have in the minors. Larsson and Blomqvist as a duo would cost less than Ned. Even if we got similar performance from Larsson/Blomqvist, we'd be doing so for 5.5M cheaper. But I think Larsson and Blomqvist would likely be better at this point.

[Skatingpen]

A boatload of goalies and none of them are good enough????

Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone said that. I think the issue is we'd be better off going with any of the goalies we have in the minors. Larsson and Blomqvist as a duo would cost less than Ned. Even if we got similar performance from Larsson/Blomqvist, we'd be doing so for 5.5M cheaper. But I think Larsson and Blomqvist would likely be better at this point.

Makes sense! Thanks

[penscup]

Taylor Haase wrote a piece yesterday, talking about how neither goalie on the NHL roster is the answer:

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -jarry-tlh

She's right

Yep, and DK has had several articles over the past few months with the same theme:

DK: Stop trying to make Jarry happen ... because he sure isn't.

DK: What's more important, Jarry or making the playoffs?

(no links in their feeds to those articles, but those are the titles)

Typcial yinzer POV. The unproven rookie in the minors is the answer to all our problems. How many years did we hear this concerning Jarry coming up through the minors? The truth is we will only know if Bloomqvist is a true NHL caliber goaltender until he plays in at least 50+ games in the league and performs solidly. Until then he's just another prospect.

Right now I would ride Nedeljkovic the rest of this season to see how he handles a full load. Yes he had a bad game yesterday but he he was left out to dry by the team. Any other goalie would have lost 0-3 instead of 0-5 last night, so what. His strong play down the stretch in critical games last year and solid play so far this season has been enough to prove he deserves the chance. Have Jarry start 1 out 3/4 games to see if he continues his comeback bid.

If Ned & Jarry fail to impress this year then give Bloomqvist the chance to start next season and see how he performs.

[FLPensFan]

Taylor Haase wrote a piece yesterday, talking about how neither goalie on the NHL roster is the answer:

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -jarry-tlh

She's right

Yep, and DK has had several articles over the past few months with the same theme:

DK: Stop trying to make Jarry happen ... because he sure isn't.

DK: What's more important, Jarry or making the playoffs?

(no links in their feeds to those articles, but those are the titles)

Typcial yinzer POV. The unproven rookie in the minors is the answer to all our problems. How many years did we hear this concerning Jarry coming up through the minors? The truth is we will only know if Bloomqvist is a true NHL caliber goaltender until he plays in at least 50+ games in the league and performs solidly. Until then he's just another prospect.

Right now I would ride Nedeljkovic the rest of this season to see how he handles a full load. Yes he had a bad game yesterday but he he was left out to dry by the team. Any other goalie would have lost 0-3 instead of 0-5 last night, so what. His strong play down the stretch in critical games last year and solid play so far this season has been enough to prove he deserves the chance. Have Jarry start 1 out 3/4 games to see if he continues his comeback bid.

If Ned & Jarry fail to impress this year then give Bloomqvist the chance to start next season and see how he performs.

Ned is no better than Jarry. He maybe was down the stretch last year, but his numbers are almost identical to Tristan Jarry's:
--In 19 games, Ned has a 3.4 GAA, .886 SV%, and .772 HDSV%.
--In 20 games, Jarry has a 3.33 GAA, .888 SV%, and a .769 HDSV%

League average GAA this year is 2.8; league average Save percentage is .901. Both goalies are below that mark.

Blomqvist meanwhile, while he has the highest GAA at 3.6, he still has a .905 SV% and a .875 HDSV%. This is in 8 games.

You aren't going to make any solid decision on a goalie in a single 8-15 game stretch. So, I'm not saying Blomqvist is the answer because of 8 whole games. But, I'm also not going to say Jarry is playing well because he played well over a 10-15 game stretch this year, when he's been very up and down over the course of his career, and especially down in the 2nd half of seasons.

Jarry is historically bad in the high danger areas (in close to the goal). His highest High Danger SV% on a season is .817 in 21-22. Out of goalies that played 600 minutes (10 games) that season, Jarry's .817 HDSV% ranked 36 out of 69. And that's his BEST HDSV% ever. He's had 2 other seasons at .805, and the rest are all sub-.800 HDSV%. Your top goalies in the league traditionally have a good HDSV%. If we look at this year, Hellebuyck has an .860 HDSV% and is #1, Vasilevskiy has a .837 HDSV%, which is 12th.

There are 37 goalies that have played 20 games this year. Jarry's HDSV% is 36th; Ned is 32nd.

Blomqvist is 3 times cheaper than Ned, and 6 times cheaper than Jarry. His SV% are much better than Ned or Jarry in his 8 games, during a period of the season (early) where the Penguins were pretty bad. He gave up a lot of goals, but he was also getting peppered with shots. The team would be better off rolling the dice that Blomqvist could provide that same level or better play for 3-6 times less cost.