2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

[Antonio]

I think your glasses are so homer colored that they are completely opaque. And I think we all know what Sullivan will do to the lineup. Maybe you will be right though...but I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

[Dynasty1970]

I think your glasses are so homer colored that they are completely opaque. And I think we all know what Sullivan will do to the lineup. Maybe you will be right though...but I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

FIRE SULLIVAN !!!

[dark_forces]

I’d pass on Kadri too.

He has nmc this and next year
Then a NTC the last 3 years. According to cap wages, it is a 13 team ntc. Strange number. Wonder why 13.

Columbus should inquire to see if they can get him for a relatively low cost. No ill intent here, but with Gaudreau's death and his cap hit coming off the books, Columbus has fallen below the cap floor. It also brings up an interesting question in that, what if something like this happened in the middle of the season? If a team near the floor had a player pass away or a major violation that resulted in the team going under the cap floor, what would the NHL do?

CBJ is only 1-2M under the floor, but they could use an increase in offense as well, again after the death of Gaudreau. See if Calgary will essentially give him away maybe a 3rd and a prospect or something, if Calgary is just trying to clear cap. Although, looking at Calgary, they are the 3rd lowest roster $$$ spent, and sending Kadri out without bringing $$$ back in would put Calgary under the floor, too.

Or, oddly enough, do they deal for nicholas robertson? He’s a LW and top six capable. If they’re rebuilding, why not take a chance on a guy who should be playing more regularly.

[Daniel]

I think your glasses are so homer colored that they are completely opaque. And I think we all know what Sullivan will do to the lineup. Maybe you will be right though...but I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

FIRE SULLIVAN !!!

He is the albatross on this franchise. I agree he'd get a job pretty quickly elsewhere and I think he'd do fine. Both of those conclusions doesn't make him right for this franchise. He's stale and the team is stale.

[Puck-Lurker]

I think your glasses are so homer colored that they are completely opaque. And I think we all know what Sullivan will do to the lineup. Maybe you will be right though...but I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

FIRE SULLIVAN !!!

If that's the difference between Crosby being on the roster for 3 more years -- and Sid not signing here -- don't fire Sullivan.

I don't think Sid rolls that way though. I'd be happy to see Sullivan gone. Strap him and Jarry to a rocket and fire them towards the west coast.

[FLPensFan]

Could just be me looking through my homer-colored glasses but I'm slightly bullish on this team going into this season. I like that Dubas has brought in players who are more gritty and tougher to play against (McGroarty, Lizotte, Bunting). I also like the idea of buying low on players who have been good in the not so recent past and looking to bounce back (Beauvillier, Glass, Hayes, Gryz).

Can't deny there is much more depth on the bottom 6. No more anchors like Carter and Harkins. Getting rid of Smith is a plus too. The effort wasn't there. We should be a hungrier group this season.

Key to the season will be to get the PP righted. I would expect a bounce back year from Karlsson for sure.

I think Dubas had a strong off-season. He is balancing the tough act of trying to remain competitive while building for the future.

if McGroarty can get his way into the top 6, adding him and Bunting there will change the dynamic of the team. Adding DOC and Beauvillier will bring speed and tenacity with a skilled center like Hayes.

Real curious to see what Sullivan does to this lineup.

This team is actually better than last year IF:

1) The PP is at least middle of the pack
2) Karlsson and Graves have good rebound seasons
3) Sullivan can keep himself from forcing Eller, Hayes, Acciari and Nieto into the lineup every night.

That last one is a huge mystery. I'm of the opinion that Nieto should never wear the Penguins crest again. We have plenty of other cheap bottom 6 forwards that have more future upside than a soon to be 32 year old coming off both left and right knee surgery. Acciari, I think should be traded to make room for the other players we have. If that doesn't or can't happen, I am OK if he is on the roster ONLY IF Sullivan can give him the treatment Jeff Carter should have received...which is...he DOESN'T NEED to be in the lineup every night.

[lemieuxReturns]

Could just be me looking through my homer-colored glasses but I'm slightly bullish on this team going into this season. I like that Dubas has brought in players who are more gritty and tougher to play against (McGroarty, Lizotte, Bunting). I also like the idea of buying low on players who have been good in the not so recent past and looking to bounce back (Beauvillier, Glass, Hayes, Gryz).

Can't deny there is much more depth on the bottom 6. No more anchors like Carter and Harkins. Getting rid of Smith is a plus too. The effort wasn't there. We should be a hungrier group this season.

Key to the season will be to get the PP righted. I would expect a bounce back year from Karlsson for sure.

I think Dubas had a strong off-season. He is balancing the tough act of trying to remain competitive while building for the future.

if McGroarty can get his way into the top 6, adding him and Bunting there will change the dynamic of the team. Adding DOC and Beauvillier will bring speed and tenacity with a skilled center like Hayes.

Real curious to see what Sullivan does to this lineup.

This team is actually better than last year IF:

1) The PP is at least middle of the pack
2) Karlsson and Graves have good rebound seasons
3) Sullivan can keep himself from forcing Eller, Hayes, Acciari and Nieto into the lineup every night.

That last one is a huge mystery. I'm of the opinion that Nieto should never wear the Penguins crest again. We have plenty of other cheap bottom 6 forwards that have more future upside than a soon to be 32 year old coming off both left and right knee surgery. Acciari, I think should be traded to make room for the other players we have. If that doesn't or can't happen, I am OK if he is on the roster ONLY IF Sullivan can give him the treatment Jeff Carter should have received...which is...he DOESN'T NEED to be in the lineup every night.

I do not agree. We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close. And we have another season where Geno is saddled with two guys who are third liners on any other team at best. We have an overpaid EK who is another year older and the same goalies as last year but more expensive.

I think that you can consider Sid's reluctance to re-sign with the team so far as his agreement with me.... this team sucks and is definitely not better than last years team.

No Bueno

[BigMcK]

Could just be me looking through my homer-colored glasses but I'm slightly bullish on this team going into this season. I like that Dubas has brought in players who are more gritty and tougher to play against (McGroarty, Lizotte, Bunting). I also like the idea of buying low on players who have been good in the not so recent past and looking to bounce back (Beauvillier, Glass, Hayes, Gryz).

Can't deny there is much more depth on the bottom 6. No more anchors like Carter and Harkins. Getting rid of Smith is a plus too. The effort wasn't there. We should be a hungrier group this season.

Key to the season will be to get the PP righted. I would expect a bounce back year from Karlsson for sure.

I think Dubas had a strong off-season. He is balancing the tough act of trying to remain competitive while building for the future.

if McGroarty can get his way into the top 6, adding him and Bunting there will change the dynamic of the team. Adding DOC and Beauvillier will bring speed and tenacity with a skilled center like Hayes.

Real curious to see what Sullivan does to this lineup.

This team is actually better than last year IF:

1) The PP is at least middle of the pack
2) Karlsson and Graves have good rebound seasons
3) Sullivan can keep himself from forcing Eller, Hayes, Acciari and Nieto into the lineup every night.

That last one is a huge mystery. I'm of the opinion that Nieto should never wear the Penguins crest again. We have plenty of other cheap bottom 6 forwards that have more future upside than a soon to be 32 year old coming off both left and right knee surgery. Acciari, I think should be traded to make room for the other players we have. If that doesn't or can't happen, I am OK if he is on the roster ONLY IF Sullivan can give him the treatment Jeff Carter should have received...which is...he DOESN'T NEED to be in the lineup every night.

I do not agree. We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close. And we have another season where Geno is saddled with two guys who are third liners on any other team at best. We have an overpaid EK who is another year older and the same goalies as last year but more expensive.

I think that you can consider Sid's reluctance to re-sign with the team so far as his agreement with me.... this team sucks and is definitely not better than last years team.

No Bueno

On paper this team shed some old guys that the coach loved but didn't take into account younger players that the coach won't play. Restock the cast-off crew with cast-off crew from other teams. This team will never move forward until management forces the *coach* to either play the young talent, accept his resignation or just plain relive him of duty. A single assh ole should not have this power over a roster.

[FLPensFan]

Could just be me looking through my homer-colored glasses but I'm slightly bullish on this team going into this season. I like that Dubas has brought in players who are more gritty and tougher to play against (McGroarty, Lizotte, Bunting). I also like the idea of buying low on players who have been good in the not so recent past and looking to bounce back (Beauvillier, Glass, Hayes, Gryz).

Can't deny there is much more depth on the bottom 6. No more anchors like Carter and Harkins. Getting rid of Smith is a plus too. The effort wasn't there. We should be a hungrier group this season.

Key to the season will be to get the PP righted. I would expect a bounce back year from Karlsson for sure.

I think Dubas had a strong off-season. He is balancing the tough act of trying to remain competitive while building for the future.

if McGroarty can get his way into the top 6, adding him and Bunting there will change the dynamic of the team. Adding DOC and Beauvillier will bring speed and tenacity with a skilled center like Hayes.

Real curious to see what Sullivan does to this lineup.

This team is actually better than last year IF:

1) The PP is at least middle of the pack
2) Karlsson and Graves have good rebound seasons
3) Sullivan can keep himself from forcing Eller, Hayes, Acciari and Nieto into the lineup every night.

That last one is a huge mystery. I'm of the opinion that Nieto should never wear the Penguins crest again. We have plenty of other cheap bottom 6 forwards that have more future upside than a soon to be 32 year old coming off both left and right knee surgery. Acciari, I think should be traded to make room for the other players we have. If that doesn't or can't happen, I am OK if he is on the roster ONLY IF Sullivan can give him the treatment Jeff Carter should have received...which is...he DOESN'T NEED to be in the lineup every night.

I do not agree. We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close. And we have another season where Geno is saddled with two guys who are third liners on any other team at best. We have an overpaid EK who is another year older and the same goalies as last year but more expensive.

I think that you can consider Sid's reluctance to re-sign with the team so far as his agreement with me.... this team sucks and is definitely not better than last years team.

No Bueno

On paper this team shed some old guys that the coach loved but didn't take into account younger players that the coach won't play. Restock the cast-off crew with cast-off crew from other teams. This team will never move forward until management forces the *coach* to either play the young talent, accept his resignation or just plain relive him of duty. A single assh ole should not have this power over a roster.

Good callout on not truly replacing Jake, LR. I think it's kind of like Moneyball, though. They aren't going to replace Guentzel; they need to replace him in the aggregate. Bunting is a consistent 20 goal scorer. That gets you 2/3 of the way there. I think it's reasonable that, if DOC plays more top 6 minutes than bottom 6 minutes, he can hit 20 goals after getting 16 goals last year. I think its a fair bet to think Rakell gets back to the 20 goal mark this season (he was injured late November/early December and never healthy afterwards). You can likely bank on one of Glass, Beauvillier, Hayes, Puustinen, or Puljujarvi to exceed their goal output from last year.

Overall, I think if Bunting remains a 20 goal scorer, DOC hits that mark if he's on Sid's wing, and Rakell hits 20, the team is fine. I'd also like to see the bottom 6 not be an offensive black hole for the 3rd year in a row, and with so much competition in the bottom 6 that shouldn't be an issue....

....unless 4 of the bottom 6 every night are Hayes, Eller, Acciari and Nieto.

[Puck-Lurker]

Could just be me looking through my homer-colored glasses but I'm slightly bullish on this team going into this season. I like that Dubas has brought in players who are more gritty and tougher to play against (McGroarty, Lizotte, Bunting). I also like the idea of buying low on players who have been good in the not so recent past and looking to bounce back (Beauvillier, Glass, Hayes, Gryz).

Can't deny there is much more depth on the bottom 6. No more anchors like Carter and Harkins. Getting rid of Smith is a plus too. The effort wasn't there. We should be a hungrier group this season.

Key to the season will be to get the PP righted. I would expect a bounce back year from Karlsson for sure.

I think Dubas had a strong off-season. He is balancing the tough act of trying to remain competitive while building for the future.

if McGroarty can get his way into the top 6, adding him and Bunting there will change the dynamic of the team. Adding DOC and Beauvillier will bring speed and tenacity with a skilled center like Hayes.

Real curious to see what Sullivan does to this lineup.

This team is actually better than last year IF:

1) The PP is at least middle of the pack
2) Karlsson and Graves have good rebound seasons
3) Sullivan can keep himself from forcing Eller, Hayes, Acciari and Nieto into the lineup every night.

That last one is a huge mystery. I'm of the opinion that Nieto should never wear the Penguins crest again. We have plenty of other cheap bottom 6 forwards that have more future upside than a soon to be 32 year old coming off both left and right knee surgery. Acciari, I think should be traded to make room for the other players we have. If that doesn't or can't happen, I am OK if he is on the roster ONLY IF Sullivan can give him the treatment Jeff Carter should have received...which is...he DOESN'T NEED to be in the lineup every night.

I do not agree. We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close. And we have another season where Geno is saddled with two guys who are third liners on any other team at best. We have an overpaid EK who is another year older and the same goalies as last year but more expensive.

I think that you can consider Sid's reluctance to re-sign with the team so far as his agreement with me.... this team sucks and is definitely not better than last years team.

No Bueno

On paper this team shed some old guys that the coach loved but didn't take into account younger players that the coach won't play. Restock the cast-off crew with cast-off crew from other teams. This team will never move forward until management forces the *coach* to either play the young talent, accept his resignation or just plain relive him of duty. A single assh ole should not have this power over a roster.

Good callout on not truly replacing Jake, LR. I think it's kind of like Moneyball, though. They aren't going to replace Guentzel; they need to replace him in the aggregate. Bunting is a consistent 20 goal scorer. That gets you 2/3 of the way there. I think it's reasonable that, if DOC plays more top 6 minutes than bottom 6 minutes, he can hit 20 goals after getting 16 goals last year. I think its a fair bet to think Rakell gets back to the 20 goal mark this season (he was injured late November/early December and never healthy afterwards). You can likely bank on one of Glass, Beauvillier, Hayes, Puustinen, or Puljujarvi to exceed their goal output from last year.

Overall, I think if Bunting remains a 20 goal scorer, DOC hits that mark if he's on Sid's wing, and Rakell hits 20, the team is fine. I'd also like to see the bottom 6 not be an offensive black hole for the 3rd year in a row, and with so much competition in the bottom 6 that shouldn't be an issue....

....unless 4 of the bottom 6 every night are Hayes, Eller, Acciari and Nieto.

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

[lemieuxReturns]

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

I think you are missing my point.

[Dynasty1970]

I think your glasses are so homer colored that they are completely opaque. And I think we all know what Sullivan will do to the lineup. Maybe you will be right though...but I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

FIRE SULLIVAN !!!

He is the albatross on this franchise. I agree he'd get a job pretty quickly elsewhere and I think he'd do fine. Both of those conclusions doesn't make him right for this franchise. He's stale and the team is stale.

He is as stale as a popcorn fart!

[Puck-Lurker]

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe?

I'm not altogether sure I was trying to counter any point made, but I did quote a snippet, I've heard it enough times from enough people. Just giving my thoughts on where we stood and should stand on one specific trade. That was always happening because of Jake's contract status and the level of suck last season and some bad decision to double down on as many older vets as possible.

Still I don't think that the moves THIS summer are detached from what Sid wants. Younger guys by and large were brought in, guys that didn't do as advertised but aren't far removed from good to career years. Yager shipped out for a guy closer to the NHL lineup.

You don't think Dubas maybe had a chat at some point with Sid about what direction he was going to take? I know Crosby isn't one to use his influence and slam a fist on the table. I don't see how he's not involved at all with how the team will appear next year.

I'm probably still missing something, but that's alright.

[lemieuxReturns]

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe?

I'm not altogether sure I was trying to counter any point made, but I did quote a snippet, I've heard it enough times from enough people. Just giving my thoughts on where we stood and should stand on one specific trade. That was always happening because of Jake's contract status and the level of suck last season and some bad decision to double down on as many older vets as possible.

Still I don't think that the moves THIS summer are detached from what Sid wants. Younger guys by and large were brought in, guys that didn't do as advertised but aren't far removed from good to career years. Yager shipped out for a guy closer to the NHL lineup.

You don't think Dubas maybe had a chat at some point with Sid about what direction he was going to take? I know Crosby isn't one to use his influence and slam a fist on the table. I don't see how he's not involved at all with how the team will appear next year.

I'm probably still missing something, but that's alright.

I am ok with the moves and I am ok with rebuilding. My point was just to say this team is not better than last year. In my opinion, I believe that this team is going to suck for a few years and it is probably necessary in order to get back on the competitive side of hockey. I am ok with that. But it is not a better team.

I will be watching every game just the same as I was when they sucked pre-Sid. But I am not going into this with unrealistic expectations that they are making the playoffs.

[Puck-Lurker]

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe?

I'm not altogether sure I was trying to counter any point made, but I did quote a snippet, I've heard it enough times from enough people. Just giving my thoughts on where we stood and should stand on one specific trade. That was always happening because of Jake's contract status and the level of suck last season and some bad decision to double down on as many older vets as possible.

Still I don't think that the moves THIS summer are detached from what Sid wants. Younger guys by and large were brought in, guys that didn't do as advertised but aren't far removed from good to career years. Yager shipped out for a guy closer to the NHL lineup.

You don't think Dubas maybe had a chat at some point with Sid about what direction he was going to take? I know Crosby isn't one to use his influence and slam a fist on the table. I don't see how he's not involved at all with how the team will appear next year.

I'm probably still missing something, but that's alright.

I am ok with the moves and I am ok with rebuilding. My point was just to say this team is not better than last year. In my opinion, I believe that this team is going to suck for a few years and it is probably necessary in order to get back on the competitive side of hockey. I am ok with that. But it is not a better team.

I will be watching every game just the same as I was when they sucked pre-Sid. But I am not going into this with unrealistic expectations that they are making the playoffs.

I think we probably largely agree. We're not going to be a team that's likely to go past round one of the playoffs. That's if we make it. There's a chance, but it's not a great one; retroactively, it wasn't that great last year either.

One thing I would add.. maybe we differ here.

I think we *are* a better team than last year. I think the ceiling, our potential is a bit lower. Mostly due to Guentzel not being here, who, let's be real was worth what he's now going to get in Tampa. But I also think the floor is a fair bit higher than last season. For my money, last year's Penguins were almost completely at their performance floor -- there was a little spurt at the end, but that's about it.

I think this year, we can expect Penguins to rise higher at the low end -- that alone will make them a better team than last year's Pens. What that's worth against the other teams in the Metro is anyone's guess. I suspect it's about the same, or just a smidge better.

I don't expect them to make the playoffs, but it's just as possible as it was last season I feel. Maybe I need to take off my black and gold glasses. I don't know. I don't feel too badly about the team coming into the season.

[KG]

Former Pen Calen Addison getting a PTO with Ottawa. Another bust Rutherford pick. He couldn't even latch on with San Jose last year. Guess that Zucker trade wasn't so bad afterall.

[100565]

Former Pen Calen Addison getting a PTO with Ottawa. Another bust Rutherford pick. He couldn't even latch on with San Jose last year. Guess that Zucker trade wasn't so bad afterall.

Calen Addison was drafted 53rd in 2018 draft. Out of the 163 players drafted after him only 4 played in more games or have more points in the NHL.

Jack McBain 63rd
Connor Dewar 92nd
Philipp Kurashev 120th
Yegor Sharangovich 141st

I would take Yegor or Philipp, but probably would have been upset if the Pens drafted either of them with the 53rd draft choice.

Who do you think Rutherford should have drafted?

[KG]

Former Pen Calen Addison getting a PTO with Ottawa. Another bust Rutherford pick. He couldn't even latch on with San Jose last year. Guess that Zucker trade wasn't so bad afterall.

Calen Addison was drafted 53rd in 2018 draft. Out of the 163 players drafted after him only 4 played in more games or have more points in the NHL.

Jack McBain 63rd
Connor Dewar 92nd
Philipp Kurashev 120th
Yegor Sharangovich 141st

I would take Yegor or Philipp, but probably would have been upset if the Pens drafted either of them with the 53rd draft choice.

Who do you think Rutherford should have drafted?

There was a lot of good Rutherford did here obviously. But drafting was not his strong suit.

[FLPensFan]

Former Pen Calen Addison getting a PTO with Ottawa. Another bust Rutherford pick. He couldn't even latch on with San Jose last year. Guess that Zucker trade wasn't so bad afterall.

Calen Addison was drafted 53rd in 2018 draft. Out of the 163 players drafted after him only 4 played in more games or have more points in the NHL.

Jack McBain 63rd
Connor Dewar 92nd
Philipp Kurashev 120th
Yegor Sharangovich 141st

I would take Yegor or Philipp, but probably would have been upset if the Pens drafted either of them with the 53rd draft choice.

Who do you think Rutherford should have drafted?

Kevin Bahl went two picks after Addison. McBain was the first pick in the 3rd round. I'd love to have either of them, but that's hindsight. Addison was kind of Rutherford's Derick Pouliot...enamored with his offensive skills, but completely ignoring his small size and his inability to play defense.

[BigMcK]

Take it for what it's worth: Matt Cullen was interviewed by NHL channel. He spoke highly about Rutherford and Sullivan. Rutherford for bringing him to Carolina and Pittsburgh; Sullivan for having faith to play him when leadership was required late in a game.

I understand both situations, and now I see why Sullivan loves him some veteran players. Veterans are less likely to make a mistake in crunch time, but Sullivan hasn't come to grips that the team he coaches today is not challenging for a Stanley Cup.

Sullivan needs to go. System failure and he is too stubborn to adapt to being a coach that has trouble with playing youth within his system.

Dubas should stay the course for fresh, young talent to fill out the roster. But he won't. I understand the reason why.

[Sams_Dog]

"We lost Jake and we did not replace him with anyone even close"

Just how in the actual F was anyone going to replace Guentzel? I mean, come on..


The Bolts last 5 years
2024: AT4 (WC1) -- 1st round exit
2023: AT3 -- 1st round exit
2022: AT3 -- lost SCF
2021: CE3* -- won SCF
2020: AT2 -- won SCF

The Pens last 5 years
2024: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2023: ME5 -- missed playoffs
2022: ME3 -- 1st round exit
2021: ME1 -- 1st round exit
2020: ME3 -- lost qualifying round

Guentzel gets a new deal, 9Mx7 in Tampa. What would we have had to offer him? I imagine he wants to play for a cup and saw the writing on the wall. Gotta figure it takes 10M for the Pens to be of interest to Jake. His 6Mx5 deal was actually team friendly at the time. We weren't going to be able to keep him -- as it stood, we were not a contender and outside of a playoff spot. Pens didn't rally until after Jake got traded as a rental to Carolina.

Who were you supposed to bring in to replace him one for one? I don't think there is anyone in the league that could have done and was in any way available.

Instead they brought back Bunting from the trade and improved on a bunch of the moving parts at the bottom. Swung for the fences, hoping for a few bounce back seasons there. Improvements from players that sucked for large parts last year and shouldn't. And for guys like DOC and in the future McGroarty to push youth into the top 6.

Dubas' approach to keep draft picks but still try to put a competitive team on the ice *right now* -- i.e. we're building, not tanking but rebuilding -- smells a little like he has had a few chats about this with Sid. That's just conjecture though

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe?

I'm not altogether sure I was trying to counter any point made, but I did quote a snippet, I've heard it enough times from enough people. Just giving my thoughts on where we stood and should stand on one specific trade. That was always happening because of Jake's contract status and the level of suck last season and some bad decision to double down on as many older vets as possible.

Still I don't think that the moves THIS summer are detached from what Sid wants. Younger guys by and large were brought in, guys that didn't do as advertised but aren't far removed from good to career years. Yager shipped out for a guy closer to the NHL lineup.

You don't think Dubas maybe had a chat at some point with Sid about what direction he was going to take? I know Crosby isn't one to use his influence and slam a fist on the table. I don't see how he's not involved at all with how the team will appear next year.

I'm probably still missing something, but that's alright.

I will be very surprised if McGroarty makes the opening night lineup and absolutely SHOCKED if he plays in the top six. That just is not Mike Sullivan’s way. I think even if he has a very good camp he gets sent down to get more ice time in WBS in favor of an older player whom he outplayed in camp.

[Puck-Lurker]

I will be very surprised if McGroarty makes the opening night lineup and absolutely SHOCKED if he plays in the top six. That just is not Mike Sullivan’s way. I think even if he has a very good camp he gets sent down to get more ice time in WBS in favor of an older player whom he outplayed in camp.

McGroarty gets sent down, unless he's lights out amazing and responsible. So he gets sent down, which isn't that bad.

I'm thinking a mid-season call-up where he plays on a third line role for a while and he gets the chance to fight to keep the spot. He'll get a couple of games in the top six if he can hold on to a roster spot, but I'm expecting he has to earn the right to get more.

There are four top-six wingers. Rust is undisputed on Sid's wing. Bunting if chemistry with Geno continues, will be a fixture. McGroarty wouldn't displace either. DOC is the one people think he can bump, but I disagree. O'Connor paid his dues to get to where he is and has been improving steadily. Speed on the forecheck and underrated for his actual puck retrievals. I'm not sure DOC on current trajectory would be displaced by McGroarty, I'd say it's premature. Rakell is the one winger I can see getting bumped by McGroarty, because of his bad last season.

Early on, Rakell just wasn't scoring. He was doing everything else right -- and doing it well -- just not putting biscuits in the net. Later he got frustrated and his game dropped off. If anything like that happens again, he's out of the top six again. I just don't think it will. RR is too talented a F. So no place at the top 6 inn until someone gets injured or traded.

[FLPensFan]

I will be very surprised if McGroarty makes the opening night lineup and absolutely SHOCKED if he plays in the top six. That just is not Mike Sullivan’s way. I think even if he has a very good camp he gets sent down to get more ice time in WBS in favor of an older player whom he outplayed in camp.

McGroarty gets sent down, unless he's lights out amazing and responsible. So he gets sent down, which isn't that bad.

I'm thinking a mid-season call-up where he plays on a third line role for a while and he gets the chance to fight to keep the spot. He'll get a couple of games in the top six if he can hold on to a roster spot, but I'm expecting he has to earn the right to get more.

There are four top-six wingers. Rust is undisputed on Sid's wing. Bunting if chemistry with Geno continues, will be a fixture. McGroarty wouldn't displace either. DOC is the one people think he can bump, but I disagree. O'Connor paid his dues to get to where he is and has been improving steadily. Speed on the forecheck and underrated for his actual puck retrievals. I'm not sure DOC on current trajectory would be displaced by McGroarty, I'd say it's premature. Rakell is the one winger I can see getting bumped by McGroarty, because of his bad last season.

Early on, Rakell just wasn't scoring. He was doing everything else right -- and doing it well -- just not putting biscuits in the net. Later he got frustrated and his game dropped off. If anything like that happens again, he's out of the top six again. I just don't think it will. RR is too talented a F. So no place at the top 6 inn until someone gets injured or traded.

In terms of DOC vs McGroarty, I think the question becomes, what is the ceiling for each player. From what I read around the interwebs, I think most people think DOC is already close to his ceiling...maybe his ceiling is 20 goals, 45 points a season...and those are Crosby assisted numbers. Those aren't horrible numbers, however, I don't think DOC goes to the net like a Hornqvist, whereas McGroarty will.

Can McGroarty exceed those numbers? Hornqvist best season in Pittsburgh was 29 goals in 17-18, and his first 2 years here he had 51 points. The percentage of his goals that came on the PP rose dramatically as the years went on...roughly 25% PP goals in year 1, roughly 50% in years 2, 3, 4, and then about 33% in his final year.

I think the first thing that will help McGroarty's cause is, if he goes into the rookie tournament this week and looks like one of the best players out there against the other teams top prospects. Go out there, score some goals, absolutely be the best Penguins forward on the ice for the tournament, and push to show that you are one of the top 2 or 3 players out of everyone playing. If he can do that, then I think he gets a longer look at camp and top line consideration.

[100565]

I agree, McGroarty has slim chance of starting with Sid. Also, if the Pens do stick with vets, I could easily see him starting in AHL to save someone else from waiver. I hope he plays amazing and forces their hand.

As far as DOC, after trading Guentzel he had 12 points in 19 games - mostly playing with Sid. Also, no power play points. That’s not bad - about 48 points over 76 games.

It will be interesting preseason. I am rooting for young guys to seize the opportunity. Unlike vets of the past, Pens have no loyalty to Hayes or Glass which provides all kinds of competition.

[Puck-Lurker]

I agree, McGroarty has slim chance of starting with Sid. Also, if the Pens do stick with vets, I could easily see him starting in AHL to save someone else from waiver. I hope he plays amazing and forces their hand.

As far as DOC, after trading Guentzel he had 12 points in 19 games - mostly playing with Sid. Also, no power play points. That’s not bad - about 48 points over 76 games.

It will be interesting preseason. I am rooting for young guys to seize the opportunity. Unlike vets of the past, Pens have no loyalty to Hayes or Glass which provides all kinds of competition.

McGroarty can very definitely force himself onto the roster, the competition will be significant though.

I really hope the Pens don't send any players down *just* because they are waivers exempt. Suppose it's EITHER McGroarty on the roster on the third line, where someone like Glass, Puljujärvi, Acciari or Beauvilier gets bumped off to Wilkes-Barre to make room --- OR McGroarty gets waived to save whoever would have been sent down a spot... if McGroarty is just a tiny smidge better than whoever would be exposed, I'd be in favour of keeping him up.

If you're 30 or older, you really have to be a level above the next guy.