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Wyopen
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Wyopen »

This is exactly why I can’t get excited about the 24-25 season, Sullivan. I think no matter who we acquire it’s going to be the same story with Sullivan. You’d think after six years of no playoff wins (excuse me, one) he’d be canned. As I said in previous posts, most players have a great career after leaving Pittsburgh. Go figure.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Dynasty1970 »

FIRE SULLIVAN!!!!!
Wyopen wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:42 am This is exactly why I can’t get excited about the 24-25 season, Sullivan. I think no matter who we acquire it’s going to be the same story with Sullivan. You’d think after six years of no playoff wins (excuse me, one) he’d be canned. As I said in previous posts, most players have a great career after leaving Pittsburgh. Go figure.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

Last night was my 3rd playoff game this year, and I sat at the very back row of the lower bowl. Much better view of the whole ice, and I could really appreciate the Panthers system and attack, and how well they can execute that system.

Kind of like how the Penguins did in their back to back Cup years...but, I don't think the Penguins execute their system to anywhere near that level today, and it's noticeable.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Toke »

Watching Florida and the level they play at really magnifies how far off the Pens really are. It has me yearning even more for Sullivan's dismissal and greater turnover of the roster for youth.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Ericf »

Couldn’t be clearer that Sullivan runs this team…Dubas is either an idiot or his mandate from FSG when he was hired was to make Sullivan happy at all costs
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by ahawk9 »

I, too, think they jettisoned ERod way too quickly but I will say that I believe that his penalty was a series killer. It was absolutely brutal in that situation, and it cost the Pens the game (and some rest) and, ultimately, the series. Trouba's garbage play on Crosby obviously was huge, but, man, that penalty... I feel that was the last chance this core had to make at least a decent run. I didn't see them winning a Cup, but maybe they get to the conference final. We'll never know, but that was the last iteration of this team where I thought they had a good shot to make a run.

That said, he seems to have learned from that huge mistake - although he should've known then not to retaliate in that situation - and the team has missed him; he's about to have a solid role in winning the Cup. I'm pulling for Edmonton but Florida seems locked in and is not about to be denied now. Might be a 5-game series the way it's going. Who'd have thought Bob would be winning the Cup. I remember thinking the Panthers were stupid for giving him that huge contract. Well, reason # 10,000 why I'm not an NHL GM.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by ahawk9 »

And on Sully's love/hate/favorites/doghouse tendencies, his dislike of Ian Cole, for whatever reason (I heard it was because he was open with the media but who knows), got Cole shipped out, which led to Matt Hunwick, a trade to dump Hunwick, Jack Johnson (and his buyout), and, ultimately, to Ryan Graves (although I loved the signing at the time and want to give him this year to see if he can turn it around a la Gonchar & Martin). Cole is still playing a solid bottom-pairing role in the league 5 years later. He reminded me a bit of that Gordie Roberts type guy a winner needs (dating myself a bit there).
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

ahawk9 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:42 pm I, too, think they jettisoned ERod way too quickly but I will say that I believe that his penalty was a series killer. It was absolutely brutal in that situation, and it cost the Pens the game (and some rest) and, ultimately, the series. Trouba's garbage play on Crosby obviously was huge, but, man, that penalty... I feel that was the last chance this core had to make at least a decent run. I didn't see them winning a Cup, but maybe they get to the conference final. We'll never know, but that was the last iteration of this team where I thought they had a good shot to make a run.

That said, he seems to have learned from that huge mistake - although he should've known then not to retaliate in that situation - and the team has missed him; he's about to have a solid role in winning the Cup. I'm pulling for Edmonton but Florida seems locked in and is not about to be denied now. Might be a 5-game series the way it's going. Who'd have thought Bob would be winning the Cup. I remember thinking the Panthers were stupid for giving him that huge contract. Well, reason # 10,000 why I'm not an NHL GM.
It may have cost them the game, but to overlook ALL the good ERod did ALL season long and boil it down to that one mistake....seems like Sullivan in a nutshell. ERod really grew his game and showed signs of becoming the consistent player he has become. I listened to Paul Maurice last night talking about ERod, and, just like here, he's played on every single line with just about every single player. It wasn't a punishment, rather, Maurice knew he could put him in any situation, and he also learned where he worked best. Maurice learned there were some guys where ERod played much better on as a RW on that line, and other guys he played much better as a LW. Maurice has gotten the most out of him and his versatility, and that level of versatility is something the Penguins dearly miss. Too many guys nailed down to a specific line and specific wing or center.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

"Kuznetsov is my favorite player," Gridin said. "I love him as a player ... Not off the ice stuff that he does recently."

Prospect Matvei Gridin, when talking to Taylor Haase. LOL
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pitts »

Amanda Kessel selected 41st overall by Montreal in this year's PWHL draft. She will go play hockey again: https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2024 ... -dubas-tlh
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

Marek and Friedman talked about the CapFriendly sale on their 32 Thoughts podcast today, which continues to support the "best sport, worst league." The NHL/Bettman wasn't a fan of CapFriendly. They preferred that salary information not be made public. The NHL frowns on these 3rd party sites.

This is similar to what I've heard in the past, and it's more of "the NHL is stupid" commentary on the league. This info is out there whether via CF or other sources. The NHLPA publishes player salaries for each team/player. It doesn't have contract length and full info, but, as many others have said, if the NHL doesn't want 3rd parties putting this information out, then they need to put it out themselves. And they have no desire to do so. They want to try and keep this information under wraps.

I've also heard that some teams were completely blindsided by this, didn't know that buying CF was even an option. There were some teams that had some programming APIs into CF to use the data with their own internal system. CF had contracts with some teams for that info, and they were told those contracts were terminated as of July 5th. Other teams said if they would have bought CF, they would have shut it down immediately and not given the extra time for other teams to use it for the draft.

Friedman also mentioned a bunch of teams that have their own internal version/system for cap management: Seattle, New Jersey, Carolina, Chicago, Islanders, Toronto, Columbus, and Pittsburgh. In regards to Pittsburgh, he said they didn't have one before but knows with Dubas coming in there is at least something there (may not be completed).
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Zalapski33 »

FLPensFan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:56 pm
ahawk9 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:42 pm I, too, think they jettisoned ERod way too quickly but I will say that I believe that his penalty was a series killer. It was absolutely brutal in that situation, and it cost the Pens the game (and some rest) and, ultimately, the series. Trouba's garbage play on Crosby obviously was huge, but, man, that penalty... I feel that was the last chance this core had to make at least a decent run. I didn't see them winning a Cup, but maybe they get to the conference final. We'll never know, but that was the last iteration of this team where I thought they had a good shot to make a run.

That said, he seems to have learned from that huge mistake - although he should've known then not to retaliate in that situation - and the team has missed him; he's about to have a solid role in winning the Cup. I'm pulling for Edmonton but Florida seems locked in and is not about to be denied now. Might be a 5-game series the way it's going. Who'd have thought Bob would be winning the Cup. I remember thinking the Panthers were stupid for giving him that huge contract. Well, reason # 10,000 why I'm not an NHL GM.
It may have cost them the game, but to overlook ALL the good ERod did ALL season long and boil it down to that one mistake....seems like Sullivan in a nutshell. ERod really grew his game and showed signs of becoming the consistent player he has become. I listened to Paul Maurice last night talking about ERod, and, just like here, he's played on every single line with just about every single player. It wasn't a punishment, rather, Maurice knew he could put him in any situation, and he also learned where he worked best. Maurice learned there were some guys where ERod played much better on as a RW on that line, and other guys he played much better as a LW. Maurice has gotten the most out of him and his versatility, and that level of versatility is something the Penguins dearly miss. Too many guys nailed down to a specific line and specific wing or center.

There were a couple of moves following the loss to the Rags in 2022 that were damaging IMHO.Deciding to basically swap out Matheson and Marino for Petry and Ruutta on Defense was a failure.Hanging on to Kapanen and thinking he was going to be a factor was a bust.Going into the 2023 Season expecting to have an effective bottom 6 with McGinn,Poehling,Archibald and Heinen and ignoring Younger Players in the system like Puustinen and Poulin did them no good as well.And looking at Jarry and thinking he was going to be their Goaltender to lean on has cost them big time.

Very good analysis about how E-Rod has settled in as an effective and solid player.
Yes he took that awful Penalty in Game 6- was a terrible blunder but his usefulness should have outweighed the emotional reaction that gave him away.It was another move in a series of mistakes that occurred after that rough Playoff Loss which all have hurt this franchise.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pens4Life »

Some of the moves I think are a lot to do with Sullivan arrogance and his ways - Cole, Marino, Matheson, ERod among many.. they all could still be here and contribute!?
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Puck-Lurker »

Pens4Life wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:27 am Some of the moves I think are a lot to do with Sullivan arrogance and his ways - Cole, Marino, Matheson, ERod among many.. they all could still be here and contribute!?
Kessel, Reaves...
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

...and the moves this team probably could have made, but didn't....Bennett, Strome, Niederreiter, Chychrun

Niederreiter-Crosby-Rust
Bennett-Malkin-Rakell
DOC-Strome-ERod
Puustinen-Poulin-Puljujarvi

MP-Letang
Chychrun-Marino
POJ-St.Ivany

I doubt we would have been able to keep Matheson and acquire Chychrun, but this would be a much more solid lineup. Marino, Bennett, and Strome are all 27. Nino 31, ERod 30, Chychrun 26. We would have had a much younger team the last 2 years. Been awhile since I ran through this roster setup, but almost positive all those salaries (even with the raises guys like Nino, Bennett, and Strome earned) would fit under our cap.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pitts »

There is no evidence that any of those moves interested the Pens team or that the team with those players had interest in trading with the Pens. To blame Sully for that is silly.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

Pitts wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:49 am There is no evidence that any of those moves interested the Pens team or that the team with those players had interest in trading with the Pens. To blame Sully for that is silly.
I don't blame Sullivan for a lack of those moves, but, as a team, this is a series of moves that could have been made and were no more costly than what they ended up doing. These moves, over what the Penguins ultimately ended up doing, would have made this team better and younger...which they should have done 2-3 years ago.

--Hextall re-signed Kapanen to that absurd RFA deal of 2 years, 3.2M. That money easily could have went to sign Dylan Strome, who got a 1 year, 3.5M deal that summer. 3C was still very much a position of need.

--Hextall didn't pull the trigger on the Chychrun trade, which would have been the better fit than Karlsson. Chychrun only went for a 1st and a 2nd, which we ended up giving up in the Karlsson trade and other trades.

--Hextall acquired Mikael Granlund for a 2023 2nd round pick...Niederreiter went to Winnipeg for a 2024 2nd round pick.

--Sam Bennett went for a 2022 2nd and a marginal prospect. Instead Hextall went with Jeff Carter for 2022 and 2023 3rd rounders

You are correct that there is no evidence the Penguins were interested in any of these moves. The big question is....why? In almost every circumstance, they gave up a similar package for a player that turned out to be a much worse player or team fit.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pitts »

^ Well, I can agree with that. :)
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by KG »

Laine has requested a trade out of Columbus. He’s intriguing for sure. Young, sniper. Something we certainly lack. Assuming he’s good to go I would think Dubas would be in on this.

Maybe new GM Waddel would want some of Carolina’s prospects back lol.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

KG wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:58 pm Laine has requested a trade out of Columbus. He’s intriguing for sure. Young, sniper. Something we certainly lack. Assuming he’s good to go I would think Dubas would be in on this.

Maybe new GM Waddel would want some of Carolina’s prospects back lol.
I would think we would pass. He's in that PLD, Jack Roslovic category of burning through a few teams at a young age. Laine has a great shot, but that's about it. He's not great defensively, he's often injured, and, seems to have issues with coaches or teams. He's also 6'5 and about as physical as Beau Bennett.

I'd rather spend resources on Ehlers if he's on the block. But, I see neither happening.

EDIT: Speaking of PLD (nope, pass), rumors are heating up that he may be bought out because of a rule I was not aware of...Buying out a player before age 26 means the team only pays out 1/3 of the salary, not 2/3 that is the normal buyout rate 26 and older. PLD just completed year 1 of an 8 year, 8.5M AAV contract and his numbers dropped considerably. The issue is, PLD turns 26 at the end of this month...if somehow the Cup finals goes to 7 games, the buyout period won't start until after PLD's birthday, and LA gets screwed.

EDIT2: And after reading LeBrun's piece, a Necas for Ehlers trade may make a lot of sense for both teams.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by dark_forces »

FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:24 pm
KG wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:58 pm Laine has requested a trade out of Columbus. He’s intriguing for sure. Young, sniper. Something we certainly lack. Assuming he’s good to go I would think Dubas would be in on this.

Maybe new GM Waddel would want some of Carolina’s prospects back lol.
I would think we would pass. He's in that PLD, Jack Roslovic category of burning through a few teams at a young age. Laine has a great shot, but that's about it. He's not great defensively, he's often injured, and, seems to have issues with coaches or teams. He's also 6'5 and about as physical as Beau Bennett.

I'd rather spend resources on Ehlers if he's on the block. But, I see neither happening.

EDIT: Speaking of PLD (nope, pass), rumors are heating up that he may be bought out because of a rule I was not aware of...Buying out a player before age 26 means the team only pays out 1/3 of the salary, not 2/3 that is the normal buyout rate 26 and older. PLD just completed year 1 of an 8 year, 8.5M AAV contract and his numbers dropped considerably. The issue is, PLD turns 26 at the end of this month...if somehow the Cup finals goes to 7 games, the buyout period won't start until after PLD's birthday, and LA gets screwed.

EDIT2: And after reading LeBrun's piece, a Necas for Ehlers trade may make a lot of sense for both teams.
If I'm Carolina, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. All Ehlers does is skate and put up points from either wing. He would thrive in Carolina.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Sams_Dog »

FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:24 pm
KG wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:58 pm Laine has requested a trade out of Columbus. He’s intriguing for sure. Young, sniper. Something we certainly lack. Assuming he’s good to go I would think Dubas would be in on this.

Maybe new GM Waddel would want some of Carolina’s prospects back lol.
I would think we would pass. He's in that PLD, Jack Roslovic category of burning through a few teams at a young age. Laine has a great shot, but that's about it. He's not great defensively, he's often injured, and, seems to have issues with coaches or teams. He's also 6'5 and about as physical as Beau Bennett.

I'd rather spend resources on Ehlers if he's on the block. But, I see neither happening.

EDIT: Speaking of PLD (nope, pass), rumors are heating up that he may be bought out because of a rule I was not aware of...Buying out a player before age 26 means the team only pays out 1/3 of the salary, not 2/3 that is the normal buyout rate 26 and older. PLD just completed year 1 of an 8 year, 8.5M AAV contract and his numbers dropped considerably. The issue is, PLD turns 26 at the end of this month...if somehow the Cup finals goes to 7 games, the buyout period won't start until after PLD's birthday, and LA gets screwed.

EDIT2: And after reading LeBrun's piece, a Necas for Ehlers trade may make a lot of sense for both teams.

Dubois seems like a total primadonna. Pouted his way out of Columbus, didn’t perform in Winnipeg, and then had an awful season in LA after getting a huge deal. Hard pass on him. Lanie would have some appeal but he is pretty far from the player he was on his rookie year. Big risk. Although if Columbus retains salary and offers him for Smith I think Dubas would have to think about it.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pitts »

I say no to Laine. There is far too much baggage there for this team. They don't need any more headaches.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by KG »

Ehlers is going to be 29 mid season. He doesn’t fit into our long term window. Same age as Jake.

At least Laine is only 26. He would certainly improve the PP.

I’m sure someone else will trade for him but color me intrigued on what he would do here.
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Re: Random Penguins Fodder

Post by BigMcK »

In the end to win the Stanley Cup, a team needs four lines on offense, each with an individual purpose, three lines of defense at a tier level to match opposing lines of offense, and two goalies to guard the net.

Currently, I see the Penguins two lines short on offense, one line short on defense, and one goalie short to guard the net.

Parity in the NHL has caught up to the Penguins along with poor bench management. At the current level, I can't see any team winning the Cup two years in a row.
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