Penguins misuse of player personnel

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Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:17 am

Yesterday, Jason Mackey had a good article on Brassard and, in Brassard's words, what went wrong in Pittsburgh. You can see the article here:

Brassard Interview

The short version is, he just wasn't getting enough playing time. The role was not what he was used to, and it just wasn't working for his style of play. He had nothing bad to say about Sullivan at all; says Sully did all he could to get him more minute here and there. It just wasn't a good fit for him. I haven't watched him play yet with Florida, but I have heard from several people he already looks like a different player for the Panthers, more like his old self playing 2nd line RW.

Today, Mackey has another article talking to Riley Sheahan. You can see the article here:

Sheahan Interview

Sheahan says his issues this year started July 1st...the day the Penguins signed Matt Cullen. Says that caused him to lose confidence, viewing that signing as him losing the 4th line center job. Said playing wing is a bit different, his ice time was much less this season than last. Somewhere over the last month or two, he talked to his agent, wondering if something (ie trade) was going to happen. Says it took him by surprise when he was dealt, though, as the Penguins never really said anything about possibly dealing him. He knew being a UFA on a one year deal, the possibility of getting traded was there, but still caught him a little off-guard.

Sprong had peanuts for minutes above the 4th line before being dealt.

Blueger sat in the minors growing frustrated, while 42 year old Matt Cullen & Derek Grant ineffectively (early season) held down the 4C spot.

Simon plays both wings, but I've never heard if he prefers one over the other.

Rust plays both wings, but he's known to be much more effective on the RW.

Seeing the Brassard comments about playing time, I wonder how much playing 3rd RW versus 2nd RW bothers Kessel.

Jack Johnson is playing. In the lineup. Badly. Said to be able to play both LD & RD, but, is he really effective on the RD spot? Or anywhere?

Riikola is said to be able to play either side, but, based on the Kapanen interview this summer, he prefers to stay in one spot. He's bounced between LD & RD.

Marcus Pettersson has played 2 whole games in his NHL career where he has surpassed 20 minutes of TOI. He's likely going to get more than that playing 1st pairing with Letang tonight.

Dumoulin has struggled recently.....but for the better part of the season, he has been just as solid as Letang. Demoted to playing with the anchor tonight.

Did I mention Jack Johnson yet? He's not been playing well, but, they are giving him more minutes on a 2nd pairing instead of 3rd pairing.

======================================================
I've said a few times the Penguins seem to have too many of the same player on the roster.
It also appears that, maybe they are causing some of their own pain by playing guys in spots that don't play to their strengths.
Sure, X player can play wing, but, he's really a center and should be playing center to succeed.
Sure, X player says they can play either defense side, but, are they really effective on both?

I'd like to see Sullivan create some lines, putting people in the right spots, and just leave those lines for 5-10 games.
I'd like to see the Penguins realize JJ is not very good, other than maybe the PK, and consider sitting him.
I'd like to see the Penguins go out and get a LW for Malkin, or just give him Phil permanently, instead of giving Geno pieces left over from whatever else they put together.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:16 am

Forgot to add we are now taking Bjugstad, who has been a center for 80% of his NHL career, and moving him to RW. We have Hornqvist, Kessel, Rust, Simon, and ZAR who can play RW. We had Sprong, who couldn't get a spot above the 4th line RW because there were too many players in front of him, and now we go get a guy who could be the perfect 3C, and we have this strange desire to play him as a top line RW?

I'm not sure I understand the logic going on this season.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby 100565 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:30 am

The team lacks motivation and plays uninspired hockey regularly. The team mis-uses its players.

Seems like it it time for Sully to go, no?
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:43 am

100565 wrote:The team lacks motivation and plays uninspired hockey regularly. The team mis-uses its players.

Seems like it it time for Sully to go, no?

The front office loves Sullivan and is fully committed to him. He's not going anywhere.

This team is short two forwards right now, Malkin and ZAR. When everyone is healthy, they have a logjam:

Guentzel-Crosby-X
X-Malkin-Kessel
X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Blueger-Cullen-X

When healthy, I'd start with the lines above

That leaves Rust, Simon, Pearson, McCann, ZAR, and Wilson. 6 guys to fill in 4 winger spots. Me personally, I sit Wilson over ZAR as an easy choice. You then have to sit one of Rust, Simon, Pearson, and McCann. I'd like to see Pearson get another shot with Malkin and Kessel, because Pearson and Phil had some very good chemistry early on. I can't see the team sitting Rust. I can't see the team sitting Simon. Very doubtful they are going to sit McCann. So, not sure what they do.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:47 am

FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:00 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Yesterday, Jason Mackey had a good article on Brassard and, in Brassard's words, what went wrong in Pittsburgh. You can see the article here:

Brassard Interview

The short version is, he just wasn't getting enough playing time. The role was not what he was used to, and it just wasn't working for his style of play. He had nothing bad to say about Sullivan at all; says Sully did all he could to get him more minute here and there. It just wasn't a good fit for him. I haven't watched him play yet with Florida, but I have heard from several people he already looks like a different player for the Panthers, more like his old self playing 2nd line RW.

Today, Mackey has another article talking to Riley Sheahan. You can see the article here:

Sheahan Interview

Sheahan says his issues this year started July 1st...the day the Penguins signed Matt Cullen. Says that caused him to lose confidence, viewing that signing as him losing the 4th line center job. Said playing wing is a bit different, his ice time was much less this season than last. Somewhere over the last month or two, he talked to his agent, wondering if something (ie trade) was going to happen. Says it took him by surprise when he was dealt, though, as the Penguins never really said anything about possibly dealing him. He knew being a UFA on a one year deal, the possibility of getting traded was there, but still caught him a little off-guard.

Sprong had peanuts for minutes above the 4th line before being dealt.

Blueger sat in the minors growing frustrated, while 42 year old Matt Cullen & Derek Grant ineffectively (early season) held down the 4C spot.

Simon plays both wings, but I've never heard if he prefers one over the other.

Rust plays both wings, but he's known to be much more effective on the RW.

Seeing the Brassard comments about playing time, I wonder how much playing 3rd RW versus 2nd RW bothers Kessel.

Jack Johnson is playing. In the lineup. Badly. Said to be able to play both LD & RD, but, is he really effective on the RD spot? Or anywhere?

Riikola is said to be able to play either side, but, based on the Kapanen interview this summer, he prefers to stay in one spot. He's bounced between LD & RD.

Marcus Pettersson has played 2 whole games in his NHL career where he has surpassed 20 minutes of TOI. He's likely going to get more than that playing 1st pairing with Letang tonight.

Dumoulin has struggled recently.....but for the better part of the season, he has been just as solid as Letang. Demoted to playing with the anchor tonight.

Did I mention Jack Johnson yet? He's not been playing well, but, they are giving him more minutes on a 2nd pairing instead of 3rd pairing.

======================================================
I've said a few times the Penguins seem to have too many of the same player on the roster.
It also appears that, maybe they are causing some of their own pain by playing guys in spots that don't play to their strengths.
Sure, X player can play wing, but, he's really a center and should be playing center to succeed.
Sure, X player says they can play either defense side, but, are they really effective on both?

I'd like to see Sullivan create some lines, putting people in the right spots, and just leave those lines for 5-10 games.
I'd like to see the Penguins realize JJ is not very good, other than maybe the PK, and consider sitting him.
I'd like to see the Penguins go out and get a LW for Malkin, or just give him Phil permanently, instead of giving Geno pieces left over from whatever else they put together.

Great synopsis of what ails this team and one in which many of us here were probably thinking along the same lines but could not summarize it as well as you do!
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Daniel on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:12 pm

murphydump55 wrote:FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.


I liked the signing of Cullen, but for 40 or 50 games tops. Let him be a locker room leader and play when injuries or if players are struggling. Also good insurance in case Blueger isn't ready or Sheahan can't hack it. But to have him play over an obviously ready Blueger is terrible. When everyone is healthy, Cullen should play once a week moving forward. If Blueger struggles, you sit him and let Cullen play and that's fine, but Blueger has looked very good.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby praxitas on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:24 pm

They've been doing this since Disco Dan put a future HOF winger Iginla on his off wing because he didn't want to move Dupuis. Probably before, but that was the earliest I could remember. They go out and spend a fortune on the nice shiny toys, but don't read the instructions and assemble it wrong :face:
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:27 pm

Daniel wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.


I liked the signing of Cullen, but for 40 or 50 games tops. Let him be a locker room leader and play when injuries or if players are struggling. Also good insurance in case Blueger isn't ready or Sheahan can't hack it. But to have him play over an obviously ready Blueger is terrible. When everyone is healthy, Cullen should play once a week moving forward. If Blueger struggles, you sit him and let Cullen play and that's fine, but Blueger has looked very good.

Right. I agree on Cullen. I understand why they brought him in. It was the locker room presence and the ability to still play at 42 years old. Last season with Minnesota showed signing him was a risk. The first half of this season questioned whether they made the right move, but he has turned it around. But by no means should be playing every game. Blueger is playing well. Put Blueger at 4C. Move Cullen to LW. Let's not cater to the guy that has no future here beyond this season, and put Blueger in his best chance to succeed. Glad Blueger has done well playing LW, but, let's get him in his natural position.

After signing Cullen, the signing of Grant was just borderline idiotic.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:29 pm

I'm mystified with attempts to make everyone a RW too. That side is loaded.. has been for ages.

Dumo-Johnson? That is someone trying to prop up JJ. Dumo is a talented enough D who can often compensate for his partners weaknesses. Making them look good or better, sometimes getting them on the right track.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Daniel on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:43 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.


I liked the signing of Cullen, but for 40 or 50 games tops. Let him be a locker room leader and play when injuries or if players are struggling. Also good insurance in case Blueger isn't ready or Sheahan can't hack it. But to have him play over an obviously ready Blueger is terrible. When everyone is healthy, Cullen should play once a week moving forward. If Blueger struggles, you sit him and let Cullen play and that's fine, but Blueger has looked very good.

Right. I agree on Cullen. I understand why they brought him in. It was the locker room presence and the ability to still play at 42 years old. Last season with Minnesota showed signing him was a risk. The first half of this season questioned whether they made the right move, but he has turned it around. But by no means should be playing every game. Blueger is playing well. Put Blueger at 4C. Move Cullen to LW. Let's not cater to the guy that has no future here beyond this season, and put Blueger in his best chance to succeed. Glad Blueger has done well playing LW, but, let's get him in his natural position.

After signing Cullen, the signing of Grant was just borderline idiotic.


Signing Grant was fine, for cheap and as a 13th forward. Depth move and nothing else. Blueger forced the Grant trade in my opinion and should force Cullen to the bench. When him and Guentzel were up and coming, I read about both of them as blue chip prospects. Guentzel has actually surpassed those expectations, from what I read he'd be like Rust/Simon and I think he's a legit core player now. I think Blueger can be a 4C who can score 10/15 goals and probably exceed that if given a chance.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Simon/ZAR - Malkin - Kessel/Hornqvist
Pearson - Bjugstad- Kessel/Hornqvist
McCann - Blueger - ZAR/Simon

That would be a very nice lineup. I think you have a scorer, playmaker, defensive forward on each line and 3 scoring lines, maybe 4.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby NJ Penguins Fan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:26 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Yesterday, Jason Mackey had a good article on Brassard and, in Brassard's words, what went wrong in Pittsburgh. You can see the article here:

Brassard Interview

The short version is, he just wasn't getting enough playing time. The role was not what he was used to, and it just wasn't working for his style of play. He had nothing bad to say about Sullivan at all; says Sully did all he could to get him more minute here and there. It just wasn't a good fit for him. I haven't watched him play yet with Florida, but I have heard from several people he already looks like a different player for the Panthers, more like his old self playing 2nd line RW.

Today, Mackey has another article talking to Riley Sheahan. You can see the article here:

Sheahan Interview

Sheahan says his issues this year started July 1st...the day the Penguins signed Matt Cullen. Says that caused him to lose confidence, viewing that signing as him losing the 4th line center job. Said playing wing is a bit different, his ice time was much less this season than last. Somewhere over the last month or two, he talked to his agent, wondering if something (ie trade) was going to happen. Says it took him by surprise when he was dealt, though, as the Penguins never really said anything about possibly dealing him. He knew being a UFA on a one year deal, the possibility of getting traded was there, but still caught him a little off-guard.

Sprong had peanuts for minutes above the 4th line before being dealt.

Blueger sat in the minors growing frustrated, while 42 year old Matt Cullen & Derek Grant ineffectively (early season) held down the 4C spot.

Simon plays both wings, but I've never heard if he prefers one over the other.

Rust plays both wings, but he's known to be much more effective on the RW.

Seeing the Brassard comments about playing time, I wonder how much playing 3rd RW versus 2nd RW bothers Kessel.

Jack Johnson is playing. In the lineup. Badly. Said to be able to play both LD & RD, but, is he really effective on the RD spot? Or anywhere?

Riikola is said to be able to play either side, but, based on the Kapanen interview this summer, he prefers to stay in one spot. He's bounced between LD & RD.

Marcus Pettersson has played 2 whole games in his NHL career where he has surpassed 20 minutes of TOI. He's likely going to get more than that playing 1st pairing with Letang tonight.

Dumoulin has struggled recently.....but for the better part of the season, he has been just as solid as Letang. Demoted to playing with the anchor tonight.

Did I mention Jack Johnson yet? He's not been playing well, but, they are giving him more minutes on a 2nd pairing instead of 3rd pairing.

======================================================
I've said a few times the Penguins seem to have too many of the same player on the roster.
It also appears that, maybe they are causing some of their own pain by playing guys in spots that don't play to their strengths.
Sure, X player can play wing, but, he's really a center and should be playing center to succeed.
Sure, X player says they can play either defense side, but, are they really effective on both?

I'd like to see Sullivan create some lines, putting people in the right spots, and just leave those lines for 5-10 games.
I'd like to see the Penguins realize JJ is not very good, other than maybe the PK, and consider sitting him.
I'd like to see the Penguins go out and get a LW for Malkin, or just give him Phil permanently, instead of giving Geno pieces left over from whatever else they put together.


Excellent job sir. I respect your thoughts about the team. While everyone piles on JJ for obvious reasons, I am curious on your thoughts about Simon ? I just don't get him being in the top 6.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:43 pm

NJ Penguins Fan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Yesterday, Jason Mackey had a good article on Brassard and, in Brassard's words, what went wrong in Pittsburgh. You can see the article here:

Brassard Interview

The short version is, he just wasn't getting enough playing time. The role was not what he was used to, and it just wasn't working for his style of play. He had nothing bad to say about Sullivan at all; says Sully did all he could to get him more minute here and there. It just wasn't a good fit for him. I haven't watched him play yet with Florida, but I have heard from several people he already looks like a different player for the Panthers, more like his old self playing 2nd line RW.

Today, Mackey has another article talking to Riley Sheahan. You can see the article here:

Sheahan Interview

Sheahan says his issues this year started July 1st...the day the Penguins signed Matt Cullen. Says that caused him to lose confidence, viewing that signing as him losing the 4th line center job. Said playing wing is a bit different, his ice time was much less this season than last. Somewhere over the last month or two, he talked to his agent, wondering if something (ie trade) was going to happen. Says it took him by surprise when he was dealt, though, as the Penguins never really said anything about possibly dealing him. He knew being a UFA on a one year deal, the possibility of getting traded was there, but still caught him a little off-guard.

Sprong had peanuts for minutes above the 4th line before being dealt.

Blueger sat in the minors growing frustrated, while 42 year old Matt Cullen & Derek Grant ineffectively (early season) held down the 4C spot.

Simon plays both wings, but I've never heard if he prefers one over the other.

Rust plays both wings, but he's known to be much more effective on the RW.

Seeing the Brassard comments about playing time, I wonder how much playing 3rd RW versus 2nd RW bothers Kessel.

Jack Johnson is playing. In the lineup. Badly. Said to be able to play both LD & RD, but, is he really effective on the RD spot? Or anywhere?

Riikola is said to be able to play either side, but, based on the Kapanen interview this summer, he prefers to stay in one spot. He's bounced between LD & RD.

Marcus Pettersson has played 2 whole games in his NHL career where he has surpassed 20 minutes of TOI. He's likely going to get more than that playing 1st pairing with Letang tonight.

Dumoulin has struggled recently.....but for the better part of the season, he has been just as solid as Letang. Demoted to playing with the anchor tonight.

Did I mention Jack Johnson yet? He's not been playing well, but, they are giving him more minutes on a 2nd pairing instead of 3rd pairing.

======================================================
I've said a few times the Penguins seem to have too many of the same player on the roster.
It also appears that, maybe they are causing some of their own pain by playing guys in spots that don't play to their strengths.
Sure, X player can play wing, but, he's really a center and should be playing center to succeed.
Sure, X player says they can play either defense side, but, are they really effective on both?

I'd like to see Sullivan create some lines, putting people in the right spots, and just leave those lines for 5-10 games.
I'd like to see the Penguins realize JJ is not very good, other than maybe the PK, and consider sitting him.
I'd like to see the Penguins go out and get a LW for Malkin, or just give him Phil permanently, instead of giving Geno pieces left over from whatever else they put together.


Excellent job sir. I respect your thoughts about the team. While everyone piles on JJ for obvious reasons, I am curious on your thoughts about Simon ? I just don't get him being in the top 6.

It's funny, because the team apparently refuses to look at all the horrible advanced stats for Jack Johnson, but, everyone sites how much of a possession monster Simon is, and how he makes everyone around him better, possession wise.

I like Simon. He does a lot of little things well, but this goes back to the whole "too many similar players." While they all have their differences in terms of speed, defensive ability, offensive ability, etc, Simon, Rust, ZAR, Pearson, and McCann are all kind of in that same mold. None of them are true top 6 forwards. They are top 9 guys who are good to fill out a line if you have another true top 6 guy (a Guentzel or Kessel) on the other wing. Even Hornqvist falls into this category to some degree. Hornqvist gets a lot of points on the PP traditionally, but he is having a down year so far. If you throw out his injury season back in Nashville, the lockout shortened season, he's got 40 plus points 8 years in a row. He's going to struggle to get there this year. He has only 4 PPG. Last year 15 of his 29 goals came on the PP.

Simon should not be above being benched either, if they want a different look at a lineup.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm

Hornqvist has suffered on the PP because with no Schultz and a slumping Malkin there seems to be less shooting and fewer rebounds for him to knock home. Plus his concussion issues this season.

I'm curious to see how Schultz's return effects the PP and if he can get 1st unit minutes.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Daniel on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:00 pm

FLPensFan wrote:It's funny, because the team apparently refuses to look at all the horrible advanced stats for Jack Johnson, but, everyone sites how much of a possession monster Simon is, and how he makes everyone around him better, possession wise.

I like Simon. He does a lot of little things well, but this goes back to the whole "too many similar players." While they all have their differences in terms of speed, defensive ability, offensive ability, etc, Simon, Rust, ZAR, Pearson, and McCann are all kind of in that same mold. None of them are true top 6 forwards. They are top 9 guys who are good to fill out a line if you have another true top 6 guy (a Guentzel or Kessel) on the other wing. Even Hornqvist falls into this category to some degree. Hornqvist gets a lot of points on the PP traditionally, but he is having a down year so far. If you throw out his injury season back in Nashville, the lockout shortened season, he's got 40 plus points 8 years in a row. He's going to struggle to get there this year. He has only 4 PPG. Last year 15 of his 29 goals came on the PP.

Simon should not be above being benched either, if they want a different look at a lineup.


I think Rust, ZAR, Pearson, McCann, Simon being in the same mold is not a bad thing as long as you have one per line, except maybe the 3rd or 4th. Rust or Simon with Crosby/Jake allow them to concentrate on offense since both of them are good at the little things or getting to the slot area to take a player away from the other two. To me, the Penguins don't have a problem scoring so having Sid/Jake and Geno/Phil on the top two lines is fine, as long as you have a guy like Rust or Simon to compliment them.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:11 pm

100565 wrote:The team lacks motivation and plays uninspired hockey regularly. The team mis-uses its players.

Seems like it it time for Sully to go, no?

No.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:17 pm

The signing of Cullen and Grant were the biggest head scratchers to me. We already had Crosby, Malkin, Brassard and Sheahan down the middle (plus Blueger on farm). That (on paper) is perfect. With Sheahan's words, you can see why that wasn't a smart move in retrospect.

As far as Bjustadt, he has played a lot of RW with Barkov in FLA. Something tells me the Pens are trying to re-create that in PIT. I'd rather see him work on 3C position here.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:46 pm

Pitts wrote:The signing of Cullen and Grant were the biggest head scratchers to me. We already had Crosby, Malkin, Brassard and Sheahan down the middle (plus Blueger on farm). That (on paper) is perfect. With Sheahan's words, you can see why that wasn't a smart move in retrospect.

As far as Bjustadt, he has played a lot of RW with Barkov in FLA. Something tells me the Pens are trying to re-create that in PIT. I'd rather see him work on 3C position here.

Living 5-10 minutes from BB&T Center (Panthers arena) and 15-20 minutes from IceDen (Panthers practice rinks), I've seen a lot of Bjugstad over the years.

Bjugstad was drafted with the idea that he would be a top 6 center. Florida drafted Barkov a few years later, and the idea was that Barkov would be top dog, and Bjugstad would develop into the 2C.

In his first full year, 76 games, Bjugstad lead the Panthers in scoring....with 38 points. THIRTY EIGHT POINTS was their top point getter in a full season. He had 24 goals, 43 points the following season, and Tallon signed him to 6 years, 4.1M AAV contract. Seemed a bit steep, but they were banking on him improving his output. He never hit 20 goals again, and last year with 49 points was his best season.

He played a lot of RW the last 2 years because of the emergence of Trocheck. I'm willing to be that if you asked him off the record so that you wouldn't get the standard "I can play anywhere" or "I'll play anywhere they want me," I think he prefers and plays better as a center, from what I have seen over his career.

Adding also that, this team desperately needs a good 3C WAAAAAAAY more than they need another RW, and I don't have a lot of confidence that McCann can become the 3C.....at least not this year.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:50 pm

JR inherits high end star players in their prime, hits 50% of his trades, wins 2 cups and is bronzed and put outside PPG arena as a GM mastermind. No, a mastermind makes a winner out of a team that doesn't have resources. Something he didn't do in his last many years in Carolina. He has missed on almost everything the past 2 years that involved trades. Riikola and ZAR as FAs are the only new additions to the team that show promise and they are likely to get scratched as much as play. I give JR an F the past 2 years. Put the geezer out to pasture and give Sully a real GM.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Hatrick on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm

murphydump55 wrote:FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.

I agree with you on the defense(they also got rid of Oleksiak rather than sit Johnson so that's even another person they chose to play Johnson over) but I disagree with the forwards.

The reason Wilson should get a call up over Blueger when a winger gets injured is exactly what you complained about them doing. Playing guys out of position. Blueger has never really played wing(until the last few games with Cullen) so you call up somebody else to play wing. I also liked the Cullen signing, cheap, brings some leadership and as he has shown can still definitely play(although its a bad sign for the rest of the team when he has been one of the better players in some of their recent games)
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Jim on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:23 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:JR inherits high end star players in their prime, hits 50% of his trades, wins 2 cups and is bronzed and put outside PPG arena as a GM mastermind. No, a mastermind makes a winner out of a team that doesn't have resources. Something he didn't do in his last many years in Carolina. He has missed on almost everything the past 2 years that involved trades. Riikola and ZAR as FAs are the only new additions to the team that show promise and they are likely to get scratched as much as play. I give JR an F the past 2 years. Put the geezer out to pasture and give Sully a real GM.


There is literally nothing that Sullivan does that you can look at and say, "Oh, that was good!" If you want to talk about someone benefiting from what he inherited... it's Sullivan. If he wasn't handed a bunch of high end stars, he would be looking at a few years of lottery picks.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby dark_forces on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:28 pm

Now that there's no Brassard, if there is another deal prior to the deadline, who is the most likely to go from the current roster?

Personally, I think Pearson could make sense to part with in the right deal.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby Hatrick on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:29 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:JR inherits high end star players in their prime, hits 50% of his trades, wins 2 cups and is bronzed and put outside PPG arena as a GM mastermind. No, a mastermind makes a winner out of a team that doesn't have resources. Something he didn't do in his last many years in Carolina. He has missed on almost everything the past 2 years that involved trades. Riikola and ZAR as FAs are the only new additions to the team that show promise and they are likely to get scratched as much as play. I give JR an F the past 2 years. Put the geezer out to pasture and give Sully a real GM.

Sully has also been part of the problem, the GM doesn't make the lineups, the coach does. Johnson plays cause Sullivan plays him. Remember Reaves, Sullivan barely played him even though Rutherford would have liked him to probably play more.
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:38 pm

dark_forces wrote:Now that there's no Brassard, if there is another deal prior to the deadline, who is the most likely to go from the current roster?

Personally, I think Pearson could make sense to part with in the right deal.

Pearson makes the most sense because of his salary next year. Penguins will need to clear 1-2M in salary over the summer in some form. Getting a rental for Pearson plus would make a lot of sense.

I'd try for Zuccarello for Pearson plus if I had my way. Throw in a prospect like Bellerive or something to make it worthwhile for the Rangers (because I'm sure someone can offer better than just Pearson).
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Re: Penguins misuse of player personnel

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:42 pm

Hatrick wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:FLPensFan, you lay out some of the exact reasons that I won't fall into the "hockey men know best", "Rutherford knows more than we do", and everything else under the sun. Yes Rutherford is obviously more experienced than any of us here, I have zero problems admitting that. The problem I have is when everyone just agrees with everything the man does because he's a GM in the NHL and he must know better than us.

Seeing the failures of signings and trades should tell you that he's not this mastermind. Yes he's made some great trades, not afraid to admit that, but he's also mismanaged players and done some strange things as evident above.

Signing Johnson and bringing back Cullen are at the top of my list as head scratchers, and you laid out why it seems ridiculous. Watching Blueger excel in the minors while guys like Dea and Wilson get recalled is also one that grinds me. Wilson is a career sub 50% CF player as well as every other predictor out there. He has 5 assists in 58 games. He's not getting any better! He doesn't add anything. Stop falling in love with guys that play "safe" and "hard". Use guys that add something 5 v 5.

The should just SEE what they have without Johnson in the lineup. Let's see how Pettersson looks away from Johnson. Let's see if our PK really falls apart without him. Ruhwedel's possession numbers last year and this year are 52.3, 52.2. He's skated in 18 playoff games over the last 2 years. How isn't this guy getting a look when a guy like Johnson is proving by every metric that he makes the team and just about every other player worse when he's on the ice?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola - Ruhwedel

If the first pairing isn't on the ice, the puck doesn't get moved and scoring chances don't happen. Adding Schultz could help this but their fix in the meantime is to elevate the anchor? You think that's the fix?

You have completely nailed some of the biggest problems here FLPensFan, and it starts with utilizing the proper personnel. As I coach myself, I know you can be blinded by the eye test. I did stats the other day for a successful team and asked the coaching staff who they thought was the best at a certain skill that game. They both answered with the same player.....that player was actually the worst that game....and these were two pretty experienced and knowledgeable coaches.

I agree with you on the defense(they also got rid of Oleksiak rather than sit Johnson so that's even another person they chose to play Johnson over) but I disagree with the forwards.

The reason Wilson should get a call up over Blueger when a winger gets injured is exactly what you complained about them doing. Playing guys out of position. Blueger has never really played wing(until the last few games with Cullen) so you call up somebody else to play wing. I also liked the Cullen signing, cheap, brings some leadership and as he has shown can still definitely play(although its a bad sign for the rest of the team when he has been one of the better players in some of their recent games)


Cullen plays wing and has. Why not bring up the mire talented player and see what he’s got, being that he could be lost on waivers next year?

They move Cullen to wing all the time, so no you don’t need to call up a wing. This again falls into not icing your best possible lineup.
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