Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:05 pm

longtimefan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:What will the bottom pairing look like for the Pens next season?

Can we all agree that the top 4 is likely Letang, Dumoulin, JJ, and Schultz?

That leaves Gudbranson, Maatta, Petterssen and Riikola to fight for two spots.

Gudbranson has stepped in and has provided an element this team has needed . Petterssen and Riikola should be on the roster simply because of what they provide relative to their salary. So that leaves Maatta as the odd man out for me.

Would you trade Maatta this offseason and if so, what is a potential return?


I tend to agree that Olli is the likely odd man out. Because of his cap hit, and the fact he'll bring the most value in return. In terms of that value, there was talk he'd be used to bring in a 3C. They may not be looking at that now, but it gives an idea of his perceived value.

Everything is predicated on how the rest of this season plays out, but something to keep an eye on is Schultz. He has obvious value, but he's also going to be on an expiring $5.5M contract. They may try to extend him, but it's also possible they try to bring in someone younger and less expensive. They don't have the right replacement, but might be able to get somebody with the lure of Maatta, Schultz, Jarry, and even our 1st for the right situation.... It's just a thought. JR moves a lot of expiring contracts for term.


I would hate to lose Schultz. He works well on the 2nd pairing and is probably their best guy to run the PP. As always it will come down to dollars and term with him, hopefully they can work something out which works for both sides. I don't see Schultz necessarily chasing the biggest offer especially after what happened to him in Edmonton.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,199
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:40 pm

pens_CT wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:What will the bottom pairing look like for the Pens next season?

Can we all agree that the top 4 is likely Letang, Dumoulin, JJ, and Schultz?

That leaves Gudbranson, Maatta, Petterssen and Riikola to fight for two spots.

Gudbranson has stepped in and has provided an element this team has needed . Petterssen and Riikola should be on the roster simply because of what they provide relative to their salary. So that leaves Maatta as the odd man out for me.

Would you trade Maatta this offseason and if so, what is a potential return?


I tend to agree that Olli is the likely odd man out. Because of his cap hit, and the fact he'll bring the most value in return. In terms of that value, there was talk he'd be used to bring in a 3C. They may not be looking at that now, but it gives an idea of his perceived value.

Everything is predicated on how the rest of this season plays out, but something to keep an eye on is Schultz. He has obvious value, but he's also going to be on an expiring $5.5M contract. They may try to extend him, but it's also possible they try to bring in someone younger and less expensive. They don't have the right replacement, but might be able to get somebody with the lure of Maatta, Schultz, Jarry, and even our 1st for the right situation.... It's just a thought. JR moves a lot of expiring contracts for term.


I would hate to lose Schultz. He works well on the 2nd pairing and is probably their best guy to run the PP. As always it will come down to dollars and term with him, hopefully they can work something out which works for both sides. I don't see Schultz necessarily chasing the biggest offer especially after what happened to him in Edmonton.


I completely agree. I think Schultz more than anyone knows what a great situation he has in Pittsburgh. He is a good 2nd pairing guy. The deal I look at is Ryan Ellis's deal, i believe its 8 years at 6.25M. Ellis turned 28 in January so he'll be 36-37 when his deal ends. that's a lot of term. Schultz will turn 30 when his contract expires. I'd offer him the same 6.25M but for 5 years, if he turns it down you have to think about moving him.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,057
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:05 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:What will the bottom pairing look like for the Pens next season?

Can we all agree that the top 4 is likely Letang, Dumoulin, JJ, and Schultz?

That leaves Gudbranson, Maatta, Petterssen and Riikola to fight for two spots.

Gudbranson has stepped in and has provided an element this team has needed . Petterssen and Riikola should be on the roster simply because of what they provide relative to their salary. So that leaves Maatta as the odd man out for me.

Would you trade Maatta this offseason and if so, what is a potential return?


I tend to agree that Olli is the likely odd man out. Because of his cap hit, and the fact he'll bring the most value in return. In terms of that value, there was talk he'd be used to bring in a 3C. They may not be looking at that now, but it gives an idea of his perceived value.

Everything is predicated on how the rest of this season plays out, but something to keep an eye on is Schultz. He has obvious value, but he's also going to be on an expiring $5.5M contract. They may try to extend him, but it's also possible they try to bring in someone younger and less expensive. They don't have the right replacement, but might be able to get somebody with the lure of Maatta, Schultz, Jarry, and even our 1st for the right situation.... It's just a thought. JR moves a lot of expiring contracts for term.


I would hate to lose Schultz. He works well on the 2nd pairing and is probably their best guy to run the PP. As always it will come down to dollars and term with him, hopefully they can work something out which works for both sides. I don't see Schultz necessarily chasing the biggest offer especially after what happened to him in Edmonton.


I completely agree. I think Schultz more than anyone knows what a great situation he has in Pittsburgh. He is a good 2nd pairing guy. The deal I look at is Ryan Ellis's deal, i believe its 8 years at 6.25M. Ellis turned 28 in January so he'll be 36-37 when his deal ends. that's a lot of term. Schultz will turn 30 when his contract expires. I'd offer him the same 6.25M but for 5 years, if he turns it down you have to think about moving him.

My feeling is that Maatta or Johnson should be the odd man out. The Penguins have a surplus of LD in Dumoulin, Johnson, Maatta, Pettersson, and Riikola.

I feel that the Gudbranson could do the same job as Jack Johnson with shorter term and a younger player. However, because of Johnson's age and the term on his deal, even with his improved play, I think the Penguins would have a hard time finding a taker for him. I lean towards keeping Maatta over Johnson, but, reality says that would be difficult to do.

In a perfect world, my D for next year would be:

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson
xRiikola

But, this isn't a perfect world, and I really think Maatta should be moved, as he'll have more value than Johnson (whereas Johnson may force Penguins to give up more assets for someone to take him). Pettersson should get a cheap, 2 year bridge deal in the 2-2.5M range....something similar to what Cole and Oleksiak got here. He's only 22/23. While he has been good, I don't think he has been downright outstanding enough to get a big payday yet. Riikola certainly had some peaks and valleys, and I would be shocked if he came back for anything over 1.5M.....and I think 1M-1.25M is the better number for Riikola.

Schultz....it's easy to see that they missed his puck moving ability when he was out this season, but, it's also easy to see that he hasn't been anywhere close to the 51 point, 5.5M player the Penguins signed. Additionally, his defensive play has seemed a bit off this season. In my eyes, he has to have a big playoffs and/or big contract year next year to get a pay increase. I'd like to keep him, as we don't have anyone available internally to step into a 2nd pairing RD spot.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,094
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Pitts on Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:12 pm

JACK JOHNSON WILL NOT BE TRADED ANY TIME SOON!




JESUS PEOPLE!
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,073
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:12 pm

Pitts wrote:JACK JOHNSON WILL NOT BE TRADED ANY TIME SOON!




JESUS PEOPLE!

This.
LimerickPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Unfortunately, Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:13 am

Pitts wrote:JACK JOHNSON WILL NOT BE TRADED ANY TIME SOON!




JESUS PEOPLE!


It's like talking to the wall isn't it? Now you know how I usually feel.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,505
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:42 am

What do you ask for in return for Maatta? To sign ZAR, Blueger, Petterssen, and Riikola the Pens could use Maatta's cap space alone.

Is packaging him with our 1st to move up the draft order in play?
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,057
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby longtimefan on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:11 am

FLPensFan wrote:Schultz....it's easy to see that they missed his puck moving ability when he was out this season, but, it's also easy to see that he hasn't been anywhere close to the 51 point, 5.5M player the Penguins signed. Additionally, his defensive play has seemed a bit off this season. In my eyes, he has to have a big playoffs and/or big contract year next year to get a pay increase. I'd like to keep him, as we don't have anyone available internally to step into a 2nd pairing RD spot.


I agree the Pens need a puck moving defenseman like Schultz. Whether he'll be that guy may be predicated on how the playoffs go. JR isn't one to let players walk. There are exceptions, like Bonino and Daley. And they won the Cup. The problem is, that didn't work well in free agency. JR has been more inclined to move UFA's for players with term. Perron for Hagelin, Hagelin for Pearson, Cole/Reaves for Brassard. Brassard/Sheahan for Bjugstad/McCann. He also doesn't like to bring in rentals. Hainsey and Streit being the lone exceptions since Winnick is his first season. And that was about the Letang injury. The thing I've noticed is he seems to like his teams put together in advance as much as possible. Something he can tweak, but where his hand isn't forced too much.

So I expect that if they like him moving forward, they'll try to get something done in the summer. If they believe it's feasible to sign him, they'll carry negotiations into the season if they have to. But JR is gonna want that loose end closed. So, I'd expect him to act on the trade market, where he's been much more effective. If they choose to move Schultz, it's a separate issue from the LD situation. Where Maatta is logical for a lot of reasons, and will bring the most return. The difference in cap hits with JJ shouldn't be discounted. That $800K+ can pay a 4th liner.

Looking forward, this will be an unusual summer, although much will be predicated on how the team finishes. But cap space is at a premium. These may or may not be upgrades, but JR may go looking for one. What about Dougie Hamilton? Or, if you want a pending UFA you can sign, maybe it's Justin Faulk. How about Parayko? Or how much will it take to sign Pietrangelo? What about Ristolainen? Or Jeff Petry?

My point is, I don't think re-signing Schutz is the only option. A lot will depend on performance, and what they decide to do in the off season. But they also have more potential trade chips than usual without mortgaging future picks. Potentially Schultz, Maatta, and Jarry to start. Schultz may be your best option. But there are some avenues to explore before committing. I like Schultz. He's a good middle pairing guy. But that's his upside. It makes sense to see if you might be able to upgrade. JR will either sign him this summer, or maybe during the season. But I don't see him letting him play out the season as a UFA. It would leave the type of hole they've shown to be uncomfortable with. Just food for thought.
longtimefan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,974
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:33 pm

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:47 am

longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Schultz....it's easy to see that they missed his puck moving ability when he was out this season, but, it's also easy to see that he hasn't been anywhere close to the 51 point, 5.5M player the Penguins signed. Additionally, his defensive play has seemed a bit off this season. In my eyes, he has to have a big playoffs and/or big contract year next year to get a pay increase. I'd like to keep him, as we don't have anyone available internally to step into a 2nd pairing RD spot.


I agree the Pens need a puck moving defenseman like Schultz. Whether he'll be that guy may be predicated on how the playoffs go. JR isn't one to let players walk. There are exceptions, like Bonino and Daley. And they won the Cup. The problem is, that didn't work well in free agency. JR has been more inclined to move UFA's for players with term. Perron for Hagelin, Hagelin for Pearson, Cole/Reaves for Brassard. Brassard/Sheahan for Bjugstad/McCann. He also doesn't like to bring in rentals. Hainsey and Streit being the lone exceptions since Winnick is his first season. And that was about the Letang injury. The thing I've noticed is he seems to like his teams put together in advance as much as possible. Something he can tweak, but where his hand isn't forced too much.

So I expect that if they like him moving forward, they'll try to get something done in the summer. If they believe it's feasible to sign him, they'll carry negotiations into the season if they have to. But JR is gonna want that loose end closed. So, I'd expect him to act on the trade market, where he's been much more effective. If they choose to move Schultz, it's a separate issue from the LD situation. Where Maatta is logical for a lot of reasons, and will bring the most return. The difference in cap hits with JJ shouldn't be discounted. That $800K+ can pay a 4th liner.

Looking forward, this will be an unusual summer, although much will be predicated on how the team finishes. But cap space is at a premium. These may or may not be upgrades, but JR may go looking for one. What about Dougie Hamilton? Or, if you want a pending UFA you can sign, maybe it's Justin Faulk. How about Parayko? Or how much will it take to sign Pietrangelo? What about Ristolainen? Or Jeff Petry?

My point is, I don't think re-signing Schutz is the only option. A lot will depend on performance, and what they decide to do in the off season. But they also have more potential trade chips than usual without mortgaging future picks. Potentially Schultz, Maatta, and Jarry to start. Schultz may be your best option. But there are some avenues to explore before committing. I like Schultz. He's a good middle pairing guy. But that's his upside. It makes sense to see if you might be able to upgrade. JR will either sign him this summer, or maybe during the season. But I don't see him letting him play out the season as a UFA. It would leave the type of hole they've shown to be uncomfortable with. Just food for thought.


I agree something has to be done with Schultz over the summer. There is zero upside of going into the season with the issue, either he needs a new deal or he is moved. Otherwise he becomes a distraction and what you will get in return will fall as the season progresses.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,199
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:34 am

Jim wrote:
Pitts wrote:JACK JOHNSON WILL NOT BE TRADED ANY TIME SOON!




JESUS PEOPLE!


It's like talking to the wall isn't it? Now you know how I usually feel.

Guessing this is targeted at me, since going back several pages, I'm the only one that remotely discussed the possibility. Guessing also most people here DONT BOTHER READING A FULL **** POST ANYMORE AND ***** ABOUT ANYTHING AND ARE WORSE THAN THE **** GRAMMAR POLICE HERE.

Don't care if you agree or disagree with my opinion, but bring something to the conversation instead of insults. Bring something else than, this is my bullheaded opinion with nothing to back it up other than it's my opinion. I'm pretty open. Love a discussion...willing to change my opinion based on good feedback and discussion, but, seems we are back to another cycle of some people just being dicks to each other.


No longer enjoyable here for me. Enjoy the playoffs folks...

Image
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,094
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:35 am

The UFA market for RHD this offseason is really thin.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,057
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:09 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
Pitts wrote:JACK JOHNSON WILL NOT BE TRADED ANY TIME SOON!




JESUS PEOPLE!


It's like talking to the wall isn't it? Now you know how I usually feel.

Guessing this is targeted at me, since going back several pages, I'm the only one that remotely discussed the possibility. Guessing also most people here DONT BOTHER READING A FULL **** POST ANYMORE AND ***** ABOUT ANYTHING AND ARE WORSE THAN THE **** GRAMMAR POLICE HERE.

Don't care if you agree or disagree with my opinion, but bring something to the conversation instead of insults. Bring something else than, this is my bullheaded opinion with nothing to back it up other than it's my opinion. I'm pretty open. Love a discussion...willing to change my opinion based on good feedback and discussion, but, seems we are back to another cycle of some people just being dicks to each other.


No longer enjoyable here for me. Enjoy the playoffs folks...


I didn't bother looking to see who specifically was taking about trading Johnson as the topic point happens a lot. It was just a general comment to the feeling of Pitt's post. Just before posting that above I "banned" myself from the Kessel thread in order to alleviate some of the sandpaper (that I tend to cause).

However, if a topic is mentioned 50 times (by 1 or many people) and is countered 50 times... at some point "good feedback and discussion" isn't going to continue. The 100th time? The 500th time? The 3rd time? Bringing it up almost become trolling in it's own right.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,505
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:18 am

Just so damn tired of seeing it. The Pens did not sign Johnson, FRIEND of Crosby, to a 5 year deal to trade him within the first two seasons. It's literally been a dead horse topic all year. Just move along already it's not going to happen. There is not counter argument. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,073
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Humperdink on Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:20 am

No one is worse than the grammar police, excepting maybe spelling gendarme.
Humperdink
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,213
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:10 am
Location: Allegheny National Forest

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Puck-Lurker on Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:29 am

Gotta remember lots of obvious things that will (not) happen turn out differently.

Brassard was a huge flop. We won a cup the year FHCMJ left. Dumoulin is a top pairing guy now. Many more things.

I practically started the bandwagons for Sheary and Simon not being all that wonderful. Neither was a popular opinion. Until it was.

I'm glad to see some people have 100% hindsight in advance. I know I don't. If we could move along from ad hominems that would be great.
Puck-Lurker
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,388
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:49 am
Location: Is apparently an annoying poster.

Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:54 am

Pitts wrote:Just so damn tired of seeing it. The Pens did not sign Johnson, FRIEND of Crosby, to a 5 year deal to trade him within the first two seasons. It's literally been a dead horse topic all year. Just move along already it's not going to happen. There is not counter argument. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.


Add in any time his poor play is mentioned GMJR and HCMS say it doesn't matter. I think hes dressed every game this season. I dont like the guy, I dont like Letang but at some point you have to come to grips with the fact that the only opinions that matter are the ones on the coaching staff and in the front office.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,057
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


cron
e-mail