2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:27 pm

I am okay with players making honest comments about coaching/coaches, management, other players, officials, etc.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:43 pm

Jim wrote:I am okay with players making honest comments about coaching/coaches, management, other players, officials, etc.

:thumb: , although, usually wise like Kovy to wait until your career is over.....unless you want your career to be over quickly.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pruezy11881 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:52 pm

Well we all know the Bylsma was a master at utilizing his players so...
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:43 pm

Pruezy11881 wrote:Well we all know the Bylsma was a master at utilizing his players so...

Some interesting memories are coming out of the woodwork after this. One I don't remember, is in a Game 7 the Penguins were losing, Bylsma pulled his goalie and put on extra attacker......Mark Letestu.....instead of Kovalev.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Owchar76 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:13 pm

Who was the Russian who recently wrote that piece for the Players Tribune comparing hockey in Russia to hockey in North America?

Didn't he also mention how his coach threatened to bench him if he carried the puck in again instead of dumping it in?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:34 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:Well we all know the Bylsma was a master at utilizing his players so...

Some interesting memories are coming out of the woodwork after this. One I don't remember, is in a Game 7 the Penguins were losing, Bylsma pulled his goalie and put on extra attacker......Mark Letestu.....instead of Kovalev.


Was this the 1 zip game 7 win by Tampa? Must have been! Sid and Evgeni both out for the year. That was a sad ending!
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:05 am

penny lane wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:Well we all know the Bylsma was a master at utilizing his players so...

Some interesting memories are coming out of the woodwork after this. One I don't remember, is in a Game 7 the Penguins were losing, Bylsma pulled his goalie and put on extra attacker......Mark Letestu.....instead of Kovalev.


Was this the 1 zip game 7 win by Tampa? Must have been! Sid and Evgeni both out for the year. That was a sad ending!

Indeed it was that game.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:00 am

FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim

Updated list for those interested.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:39 am

FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim

Updated list for those interested.


Are the write ups based on overall possible NHL prospects or overall top end prospects? If it's the former, the Pens might be higher than we think since they have a lot of players that should make the NHL in the next few years (either with the Pens or elsewhere). They might not have top prospects, but they really don't need them at this point and time.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim

Updated list for those interested.


Are the write ups based on overall possible NHL prospects or overall top end prospects? If it's the former, the Pens might be higher than we think since they have a lot of players that should make the NHL in the next few years (either with the Pens or elsewhere). They might not have top prospects, but they really don't need them at this point and time.

"I tend to value top talent much more than depth of decent players. Depth is incorporated though, as there is value to filling out your roster with young, cheap talent...."
"I value goalie prospects very conservatively".
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:02 pm

Great58 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim

Updated list for those interested.


Are the write ups based on overall possible NHL prospects or overall top end prospects? If it's the former, the Pens might be higher than we think since they have a lot of players that should make the NHL in the next few years (either with the Pens or elsewhere). They might not have top prospects, but they really don't need them at this point and time.

"I tend to value top talent much more than depth of decent players. Depth is incorporated though, as there is value to filling out your roster with young, cheap talent...."
"I value goalie prospects very conservatively".


Thanks. While I agree on principle, I think it depends on the overall franchise and that each team should have top end talent either NHL or system below the NHL level. For example, with all the top end talent TB has, it's impossible for them to have top end talent in the minors. Not to mention the fact that most top end talent is in the NHL overall.

The Penguins brought up about a dozen prospects over the past few seasons (give or take) and that kind of quick advancement for kids tells us two things. First, the Pens had a tremendous farm system, how else can they win the cup with that many kids coming up? Second, what team can handle that kind of exodus and have a top farm system?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:11 pm

I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:24 pm

Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?


I would imagine they consider juniors and NCAA as past of the farm system, pretty much anyone not in the NHL? Consider this, how much success has Conor Sheary had compared to anyone in his draft class? The list of UDFA's the Penguins get is astonishing and more than makes up for the lose of draft picks. ZAR, Johnson, DiPauli, Bellerive are all at least as good as anyone the Pens could have drafted in the first round. Using that as a criteria, have the Penguins really lost 1st round picks considering they've replaced them with UDFAs?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:25 pm

Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?

Similarly, is Sprong really a product of the Pens farm?

He's been with WBS for a year plus a few games left and right. And a smattering of minutes at the big club. Yeah he got drafted... but...
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:27 pm

Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?

Jake and Rusty were both Penguins draft picks, though. Both of them went through the system. Jake for a much shorter period of time than Rust, though. I think for those guys, they just got to grow up a bit before getting to WBS, probably accelerating their growth.....and I wouldn't doubt that the Penguins are in contact with teams that have their drafted players playing in college. They don't have as much as in what they do, but I still do believe they have people in the organization that talk to the NCAA coaches.

The Penguins have still been pretty bad with developing higher end guys, especially defense. Despres, Morrow, and Pouiot were supposed to be three young mainstays, and all 3 were misses for the organization. Maatta played a whole 3 playoff games for WBS. Dumoulin played 3 years in WBS before getting to the NHL, after being acquired from Carolina. Bortuzzo developed OK, but he isn't top 4 talent. Muzzin was another miss for the Penguins. Samuelsson was another earlier round miss. Harrington was a miss. Connor Hall was a miss.

While it is still early for a lot of them, the Penguins haven't had a defenseman from the past SIX NHL drafts make it to the NHL. The Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin class is the last year a Penguin drafted defenseman made it to the NHL.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:32 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?

Jake and Rusty were both Penguins draft picks, though. Both of them went through the system. Jake for a much shorter period of time than Rust, though. I think for those guys, they just got to grow up a bit before getting to WBS, probably accelerating their growth.....and I wouldn't doubt that the Penguins are in contact with teams that have their drafted players playing in college. They don't have as much as in what they do, but I still do believe they have people in the organization that talk to the NCAA coaches.

The Penguins have still been pretty bad with developing higher end guys, especially defense. Despres, Morrow, and Pouiot were supposed to be three young mainstays, and all 3 were misses for the organization. Maatta played a whole 3 playoff games for WBS. Dumoulin played 3 years in WBS before getting to the NHL, after being acquired from Carolina. Bortuzzo developed OK, but he isn't top 4 talent. Muzzin was another miss for the Penguins. Samuelsson was another earlier round miss. Harrington was a miss. Connor Hall was a miss.

While it is still early for a lot of them, the Penguins haven't had a defenseman from the past SIX NHL drafts make it to the NHL. The Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin class is the last year a Penguin drafted defenseman made it to the NHL.


While I will agree the Pens haven't developed a top end offensive defensemen, they have developed some pretty steady ones.

Muzzin and Hall were only misses because of injuries, not really misses by the Pens. Harrington got the Pens Kessel, not really a miss for the Pens (miss for Toronto, but who cares).

Like the forwards, have the Pens really needed to develop a high end offensive defensemen? With Schultz and Letang, where would they play? I don't think the Pens really need a top end defensemen for the next season or two. NOW, if they need one in a year or to and don't have one, that's an entirely different discussion. There is still time for Lauzon or Addison to develop.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:04 am

FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim

Updated list for those interested.

im shocked the pens aren't in the bottom 5 or 6, I understand them being ahead of Washington and tampa but wouldn't have guessed any others for certain. But im not that familiar with farm systems, especially for western conference teams.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:12 am

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?

Jake and Rusty were both Penguins draft picks, though. Both of them went through the system. Jake for a much shorter period of time than Rust, though. I think for those guys, they just got to grow up a bit before getting to WBS, probably accelerating their growth.....and I wouldn't doubt that the Penguins are in contact with teams that have their drafted players playing in college. They don't have as much as in what they do, but I still do believe they have people in the organization that talk to the NCAA coaches.

The Penguins have still been pretty bad with developing higher end guys, especially defense. Despres, Morrow, and Pouiot were supposed to be three young mainstays, and all 3 were misses for the organization. Maatta played a whole 3 playoff games for WBS. Dumoulin played 3 years in WBS before getting to the NHL, after being acquired from Carolina. Bortuzzo developed OK, but he isn't top 4 talent. Muzzin was another miss for the Penguins. Samuelsson was another earlier round miss. Harrington was a miss. Connor Hall was a miss.

While it is still early for a lot of them, the Penguins haven't had a defenseman from the past SIX NHL drafts make it to the NHL. The Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin class is the last year a Penguin drafted defenseman made it to the NHL.


While I will agree the Pens haven't developed a top end offensive defensemen, they have developed some pretty steady ones.

Muzzin and Hall were only misses because of injuries, not really misses by the Pens. Harrington got the Pens Kessel, not really a miss for the Pens (miss for Toronto, but who cares).

Like the forwards, have the Pens really needed to develop a high end offensive defensemen? With Schultz and Letang, where would they play? I don't think the Pens really need a top end defensemen for the next season or two. NOW, if they need one in a year or to and don't have one, that's an entirely different discussion. There is still time for Lauzon or Addison to develop.

But they had to go out and GET Schultz. They got lucky in that in only cost them a 3rd, but if Despres, Pouliot, or Morrow had been good at all, they might not have needed to get Schultz. I still contend that on the ice, Despres was very solid. I think the off the ice issues were the problems. I had also heard Madden referring to Pouliot a few weeks ago as someone who apparently liked to smoke and toke, which may have been more of a behind the scenes reason why he never worked out or wore out his welcome.

Harrington's still a miss. He didn't work out for anyone. He's played less than 80 NHL games.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:35 am

Hatrick wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Corey Pronman at the Athletic is doing a detailed breakdown of each team's farm system, and ranking them. He has some different requirements in terms of NHL games played in a single season or total NHL games played eliminating some prospects, but is going deep, team by team, with his rankings. Looks like he is going to do 2-3 teams a day, in reverse order. Capitals come in at #31, and Tampa at #30. Will update this when the Penguins are up, and what he has to say about their prospects. I'm expecting them to be up in the next couple of days (as my guess is they are 20th at best).

Through the first 8 teams, Penguins have not made the list of farm team rankings, starting from the worst to best. My guess is 22nd.....

31. Washington
30. Tampa
29. Calgary
28. Winnipeg
27. Boston
26. Nashville
25. Columbus
24. Anaheim
23. Pittsburgh
22. Edmonton

Updated list for those interested.

im shocked the pens aren't in the bottom 5 or 6, I understand them being ahead of Washington and tampa but wouldn't have guessed any others for certain. But im not that familiar with farm systems, especially for western conference teams.

Damn, I was close (I guessed 22). List updated above, Pittsburgh comes in at #23. For reference, breaks down players in to 7 categories based on their potential.
- Special prospect (these would be your Crosby, McDavid level, generational players).
- Elite prospect ( I would say someone more on a Panarin, Seguin....really, really good, but not generational)
- High End prospect - legit top line player, #1 PP player, top pairing defenseman
- Very Good prospect - top 6 forward, top 4 d-man, starting goalie
- Legit NHL prospect - Projects to make NHL, but not in prominent role. Close enough to get to NHL
- Have a chance prospect - Not an impact guy, but could make NHL. Have a chance is rated as chance to be good player, not chance to make NHL.
- Depth - Fill in or injury callup level player.

Some of the highlights of Pronman's observations:

- Says Penguins system is very thin at quality prospects, but they somehow continue to squeeze out a few good players at the top of their system. Sprong, Addison, Hallander, and Bellerive were his most recent mentions. I also see in Pronman's 2017 rankings, Penguins system was ranked 31st (last), so they have moved up a bit this year.

- Sprong highest prospect, rated at High End prospect. Calls him a high-end skater and puck handler who can push the pace. Intelligent and creative. Says Sprong has "one of the best shots outside the NHL." Play away from the puck isn't a selling point. Not physical and frustrates coaches at times, but puts up numbers wherever he goes.

- Bellerive and Addison are next, and they are in the Legit prospect level. Called Bellerive one of the best post-draft free agent signings of the past few years. Skates very well, big shot, works hard, intelligent. Can play center or wing, and make impact on both special teams. Likely not dynamic enough to be top 6 guy, but it is possible with how he thinks the game.

- Addison is great skater, with vision, skill, and decent point shot. His main drawback is his size. He's smart enough, but loses battles because of his size and is just adequate defender at WHL level.

- Hallander, Aston-Reese, Adam Johnson, and Bjorkqvist come in at the Have a Chance level. The Cons of each listed below.
----Hallander not a great skater, with an awkward stride, but does have decent top end speed once he gets going.
----Aston-Reese also limited by his skating ability
----Johnson not overwhelming offensively or in any one area.
----Inconsistent, doesn't have ability to make good offensive plays at pro pace

- Depth level players were Riikola, Blueger, Clayton Phillips, Almeida, Drozg, D'Orio, Almari, Olund.

Link to the full Penguins breakdown if you have the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/446764/2018/08/10/nhl-farm-system-rankings-no-23-pittsburgh-penguins/
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:40 am

Dylan Larkin gets 5 years, 6.1M AAV contract from the Wings. The price for Guentzel keeps going up and up, and if Guentzel hits 60 points this season, it's almost a guaranteed 6M or higher deal based on other signings.

Consider the numbers:
--Larkin- 80 games-23goals-45points, 80 games 17goals-32points, 82 games, 16goals-63points......5 total playoff games, 1 goal, 1 point.
--Guentzel -33 games-16goals-40points, 82games-22goals-48points, 37 playoff games-23goals-42 points.

Arizona also just gave Christian Dvorak a 6 year, 4.45M AAV contract. The guy has 33 points in 78 games, and 37 points in 78 games. No playoff games. FOUR POINT FOUR FIVE MILLION FOR MID THIRTY POINT PRODUCTION!!!! :face: :face: :face: :face: :thumbdown:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:52 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:I agree that the Pens current farm system is depleted by their success, both by their call ups but also by their trade of draft picks for current NHL talent in their win-now mode AND their late round draft position over the past few drafts. That will deplete any cupboard. That they aren't in the bottom grouping of talent for the farm system is kind of remarkable. I do hedge just a bit when I think how many of their recent NHL successes came from NCCA players making the transition, so was that a success of their farm system? I guess guys like Jake and Rust polished their game in WBS for a bit, so sure?

Jake and Rusty were both Penguins draft picks, though. Both of them went through the system. Jake for a much shorter period of time than Rust, though. I think for those guys, they just got to grow up a bit before getting to WBS, probably accelerating their growth.....and I wouldn't doubt that the Penguins are in contact with teams that have their drafted players playing in college. They don't have as much as in what they do, but I still do believe they have people in the organization that talk to the NCAA coaches.

The Penguins have still been pretty bad with developing higher end guys, especially defense. Despres, Morrow, and Pouiot were supposed to be three young mainstays, and all 3 were misses for the organization. Maatta played a whole 3 playoff games for WBS. Dumoulin played 3 years in WBS before getting to the NHL, after being acquired from Carolina. Bortuzzo developed OK, but he isn't top 4 talent. Muzzin was another miss for the Penguins. Samuelsson was another earlier round miss. Harrington was a miss. Connor Hall was a miss.

While it is still early for a lot of them, the Penguins haven't had a defenseman from the past SIX NHL drafts make it to the NHL. The Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin class is the last year a Penguin drafted defenseman made it to the NHL.


While I will agree the Pens haven't developed a top end offensive defensemen, they have developed some pretty steady ones.

Muzzin and Hall were only misses because of injuries, not really misses by the Pens. Harrington got the Pens Kessel, not really a miss for the Pens (miss for Toronto, but who cares).

Like the forwards, have the Pens really needed to develop a high end offensive defensemen? With Schultz and Letang, where would they play? I don't think the Pens really need a top end defensemen for the next season or two. NOW, if they need one in a year or to and don't have one, that's an entirely different discussion. There is still time for Lauzon or Addison to develop.

But they had to go out and GET Schultz. They got lucky in that in only cost them a 3rd, but if Despres, Pouliot, or Morrow had been good at all, they might not have needed to get Schultz. I still contend that on the ice, Despres was very solid. I think the off the ice issues were the problems. I had also heard Madden referring to Pouliot a few weeks ago as someone who apparently liked to smoke and toke, which may have been more of a behind the scenes reason why he never worked out or wore out his welcome.

Harrington's still a miss. He didn't work out for anyone. He's played less than 80 NHL games.


I honestly think Despres was the Pens fault, but Pouliot wasn't. Despres just never got a good chance and that might have caused the off ice problems. I think Pouliot getting caught drunk and acting immature when he got sent down sealed his fate.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:59 am

FLPensFan wrote:
The Penguins have still been pretty bad with developing higher end guys, especially defense. Despres, Morrow, and Pouiot were supposed to be three young mainstays, and all 3 were misses for the organization. Maatta played a whole 3 playoff games for WBS. Dumoulin played 3 years in WBS before getting to the NHL, after being acquired from Carolina. Bortuzzo developed OK, but he isn't top 4 talent. Muzzin was another miss for the Penguins. Samuelsson was another earlier round miss. Harrington was a miss. Connor Hall was a miss.

While it is still early for a lot of them, the Penguins haven't had a defenseman from the past SIX NHL drafts make it to the NHL. The Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin class is the last year a Penguin drafted defenseman made it to the NHL.

Do you know what the expected hit rate for defencemen drafted outside of the top 10 overall draft picks? What percentage go on to play 100 + NHL games? I just wonder how the Penguins players have been against the average.
And is having three of your top 4 defencemen a product of your own draft/development good, average, or bad, compared to the rest of the league?

I don't have time to look these up currently, so if anyone wants to take a crack at them, I'd be both interested and appreciative.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:52 am

https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaki ... e-1.786131

Nice article from TSN a few years back, analyzing the impact of draft picks. It backs up the theory that the draft is a complete crapshoot if you're not getting a high pick.

As early as No. 6, there’s at least a one-in-three chance of a drafted player being no more than a fourth-liner or fringe NHLer. By the last picks of the first round (28-30), it’s at least a three-in-four chance that the pick will be a fourth-liner or fringe player.


We're using Scott Harrington as an example, but the chart shows there's about an 20% chance of a player selected in his draft position ever becoming more than a 4th liner or depth defenseman. Only 32.5% played in at least 100 NHL games.

BTW, there's only a 34.2% chance of somebody drafted in the 46th-50th position playing 100 NHL games, and they only have a 10.8% chance of becoming a top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman. Sprong was picked 46th. If he makes it, he was a draft steal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby theblackarts on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:36 am

This is interesting. I would love to see the percentages so far as sticking in the AHL or even being relegated to the ECHL etc.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:24 pm

Top 20 defensman currently per the NHL Network. Sure to stir some disagreement on here with Letang coming in at #13. The perception of the main stream national media is much different than the perception of many on these boards.

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-20-defense ... =290583266
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