Early Take on Zucker Trade

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

What's your initial reaction to the trade for Zucker?

Poll ended at Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Steal for the Pens!
4
12%
Wash, even for even
9
26%
WTF, Billy G has photos of GMJR...pens got Robbed
5
15%
Too early yet to have an opinion, want to see some games first
16
47%
 
Total votes : 34

Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Penspal on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:22 pm

2 day poll, what is your initial thoughts on this trade?
Penspal
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,819
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:12 am
Location: UPMC - Universal Pens Mojo Council

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:45 pm

I would have liked to have seen the Penguins get a 2nd back in the deal, since we now are missing a 1st and 2nd, but, our 1st is closer to NJD/Detroit 2nd round pick, and, while we had Addison rated very high, in a deeper prospect system, he's probably the 3rd or 4th best option.

In the end, I think like Tanev, the Penguins identified Zucker long ago as a player that will fit their system very well. They got their man. If they are right with Zucker like they were with Tanev, people won't be losing their **** for too long.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,871
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby 100565 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:50 pm

I went with WTF. I think there is a ~30% chance Gally has more points than Zucker for remainder of this year (regular season).
100565
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:55 pm

100565 wrote:I went with WTF. I think there is a ~30% chance Gally has more points than Zucker for remainder of this year (regular season).

Image
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,871
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Daniel on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:56 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I would have liked to have seen the Penguins get a 2nd back in the deal, since we now are missing a 1st and 2nd, but, our 1st is closer to NJD/Detroit 2nd round pick, and, while we had Addison rated very high, in a deeper prospect system, he's probably the 3rd or 4th best option.

In the end, I think like Tanev, the Penguins identified Zucker long ago as a player that will fit their system very well. They got their man. If they are right with Zucker like they were with Tanev, people won't be losing their **** for too long.


The difference with Tanev though is that the concerns were merely financial and length. In the end as long as it doesn't disrupt their roster building because of salary cap issues, who cares. With Zucker, they gave up a top prospect from a not very deep system. If Zucker works out, great no worries. If they don't win the cup, the system is even worse and when they need to upgrade they have one less piece.

I hope you're right about Zucker being a difference maker, but I don't think he's any better than Rust, McCann, Kahun, he's just been in the league longer. I also don't think he's the difference between a 2nd round exit and winning the cup. I think giving up a guy like Addison should be for a special player, one that Zucker is not.
Daniel
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,482
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby KG on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:05 pm

I put it as a wash, but I feel it is a definite win for the Pens, not a steal but a good trade for both. Zucker is by far the best player in the trade and he is in his prime. 28, signed for 3 more years at a fair market contract. He is a 30 goal scorer and may be even more then that in this lineup.

Cost to acquire a player like that is steep. The Pens traded a late first round pick and a good prospect. Galchenyuk was a throw in. I heard Bob McKenzie on before, he thinks the Pens didn't give up enough. He compared the return the Rangers got for Hayes from the Jets last season. A late round pick and Brandon Lemieux for a 2 month rental of Kevin Hayes.

Pens clearly wanted Zucker and feel he fits them. Excited to see how he produces and how the team plays going forward!
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,087
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:16 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I would have liked to have seen the Penguins get a 2nd back in the deal, since we now are missing a 1st and 2nd, but, our 1st is closer to NJD/Detroit 2nd round pick, and, while we had Addison rated very high, in a deeper prospect system, he's probably the 3rd or 4th best option.

In the end, I think like Tanev, the Penguins identified Zucker long ago as a player that will fit their system very well. They got their man. If they are right with Zucker like they were with Tanev, people won't be losing their **** for too long.


The difference with Tanev though is that the concerns were merely financial and length. In the end as long as it doesn't disrupt their roster building because of salary cap issues, who cares. With Zucker, they gave up a top prospect from a not very deep system. If Zucker works out, great no worries. If they don't win the cup, the system is even worse and when they need to upgrade they have one less piece.

I hope you're right about Zucker being a difference maker, but I don't think he's any better than Rust, McCann, Kahun, he's just been in the league longer. I also don't think he's the difference between a 2nd round exit and winning the cup. I think giving up a guy like Addison should be for a special player, one that Zucker is not.


A guy like Addison? Outside of maybe the WJ’s, have you seen him play? I’m willing to bet many haven’t. If you did watch the WJ, I wouldn’t put too much stock into a two week tourney. He’s not highly ranked either.

The Pens have dealt away a bunch prospects over the years. Can anyone name one that came back to bite them?

I’ll start. Kapanen. He might be the best that they’ve traded, but it resulted in 2 Cups. After that? Maybe Sundqvist, but I hated that trade from the start.

Despres?
Sprong?
Morrow?
Pouliot?
Esposito?

It’s pretty hard to find one that truly hurt and looked bad.
murphydump55
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,045
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: the real hockeyville and apparently a janitor from Eastern Canada LOL

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby no name on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Steal,

Galchenyuk being subtracting (his presences and salary) is more of a help than anything at this point. For the Pens he is not worth much. They did us a favor taking him.

Addison, undersized though does have high end talent. He is worth the most but I still don't see him being anything more than a middle pair defenseman.

1st rounder, late round first rounder is still a crap shoot especially with our scouting dept. they will get more use our of it than we would.

Zucker, high skill guy fits all the bullet points and he got 3 years term on this contract. That 3 years is what we are paying for with the 1st and Addison and again, Galchenyuk is addition by subtraction.

If you put Alex on the market and asked for the highest pick, the lowest I could see is a 4th rounder his production and salary is not worth much.
Last edited by no name on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no name
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,159
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby 100565 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:20 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:I went with WTF. I think there is a ~30% chance Gally has more points than Zucker for remainder of this year (regular season).

Image


lol. I know. I know.

Zucker has been struggling...might still be healing. Wild are playing well, and Gally has proven the ability to get points. There is a chance. About 30% in my mind.
100565
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Steve on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:32 pm

It's a very good trade for the Pens now and potentially a very good trade for the Wild.

One of the big wins is that the Pens no longer have to shelter the 4th line because of Galchenyuk. Galchenyuk may rebound in a different system, but his stock was falling fast and I think we needed to pay Minny to take him, based on what was sent their way. It would have been worse after some scratches I think, and that was coming.

The Pens look a little tired lately - they'll need more minutes from the 4th line.
Steve
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,951
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:46 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I would have liked to have seen the Penguins get a 2nd back in the deal, since we now are missing a 1st and 2nd, but, our 1st is closer to NJD/Detroit 2nd round pick, and, while we had Addison rated very high, in a deeper prospect system, he's probably the 3rd or 4th best option.

In the end, I think like Tanev, the Penguins identified Zucker long ago as a player that will fit their system very well. They got their man. If they are right with Zucker like they were with Tanev, people won't be losing their **** for too long.


The difference with Tanev though is that the concerns were merely financial and length. In the end as long as it doesn't disrupt their roster building because of salary cap issues, who cares. With Zucker, they gave up a top prospect from a not very deep system. If Zucker works out, great no worries. If they don't win the cup, the system is even worse and when they need to upgrade they have one less piece.

I hope you're right about Zucker being a difference maker, but I don't think he's any better than Rust, McCann, Kahun, he's just been in the league longer. I also don't think he's the difference between a 2nd round exit and winning the cup. I think giving up a guy like Addison should be for a special player, one that Zucker is not.


A guy like Addison? Outside of maybe the WJ’s, have you seen him play? I’m willing to bet many haven’t. If you did watch the WJ, I wouldn’t put too much stock into a two week tourney. He’s not highly ranked either.

The Pens have dealt away a bunch prospects over the years. Can anyone name one that came back to bite them?

I’ll start. Kapanen. He might be the best that they’ve traded, but it resulted in 2 Cups. After that? Maybe Sundqvist, but I hated that trade from the start.

Despres?
Sprong?
Morrow?
Pouliot?
Esposito?

It’s pretty hard to find one that truly hurt and looked bad.

In one of the articles on the Athletic where they asked scouts about the trade, one of them said Addison's skating is ok, not great. Another said he's not certain Addison could be considered A-level prospect. Could he be really good? Sure. Most people have him at least 2 years away. People don't want to hear it, but, John Marino bursting on the scene made it much easier to swallow. Marino is 22, Pettersson is 23, Dumoulin is 28, and they have POJ who could be ready next year if he can pack on some weight. (POJ put on 10 plus pounds this summer, but got sick and pretty much lost all that extra weight).

In terms of trades coming back to bite them....Kapanen took 5 years to become a full time NHL player. Last year was his 1st full season. He was drafted in 2014, 22nd overall. Was Kapanen going to help this team more than Kessel did in helping get those two Cups? Nope.

Sundqvist was given a ton of chances here. He tore up the AHL in his last year, jumping from 5 goals and 17 points to 20 goals and 46 points. He was recalled to the NHL that season, and did nothing. He looked lost. He did very little his first season in STL, only 5 points in 42 games. I think this may be a case of Sundqvist being a better fit on a team that plays a style more suitable to his game. I think that is the reason for his output with STL.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,871
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 pm

This is a lot to give up. If they are giving up that much I would have rather it been for a guy like Hall. I would have never guessed Zucker was worth a 1st alone. His current contract isn't even a good deal considering his numbers when you compare it to a guy like Rust.
lemieuxReturns
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,282
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:00 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby ville5 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:10 pm

100565 wrote:I went with WTF. I think there is a ~30% chance Gally has more points than Zucker for remainder of this year (regular season).

Well, seeing how Galchenyuk has the higher career point per game average in quite a few more games.....
ville5
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,803
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby 100565 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:13 pm

Since Zucker's return from injury, both him and Gally have the same amount of even strength points; 2 points. In that time, Zucker has an additional 3PPP compared to Gally's 1PPP. Zucker played 11 games averaging 14:31, and Gally played 10 games and 7:54.

so, 30%.
100565
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:18 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:This is a lot to give up. If they are giving up that much I would have rather it been for a guy like Hall. I would have never guessed Zucker was worth a 1st alone. His current contract isn't even a good deal considering his numbers when you compare it to a guy like Rust.

So, you would have rather given up the same amount (for arguments sake) for 4 months of Taylor Hall. If they didn't win the Cup, Hall leaves, and you have nothing to show for the pieces you gave up.

I'd rather give up those pieces for Zucker, make a run at the Cup this year, and no matter the outcome this year, you still have a shot the next two seasons. If the Penguins were going to give up a 1st and their top prospect, I sure as heck didn't want a rental. They have limited assets, and I feel they got the best the could and what they wanted, and made the most of the assets they have.

You may not like Zucker's contract if you are looking solely at points. The graphs I have been looking at lately had Zucker's play valued at 8.3M AAV. I hope Rust keeps it up. It would be great if he could become another 60 point player on this roster. He's on pace for 76 points. But, there's no way he's going to keep shooting at a 19% plus conversation rate. Come back to me on Rust next year, and lets see if he can play at even a 60 point pace, or does he fall back to to the high 30's, low 40's range.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,871
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:30 pm

Guerin probably insisted that Addison be included because he plans to move either Dumba or Spurgeon.
sjnhiils
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Great58 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:42 pm

100565 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:I went with WTF. I think there is a ~30% chance Gally has more points than Zucker for remainder of this year (regular season).

Image


lol. I know. I know.

Zucker has been struggling...might still be healing. Wild are playing well, and Gally has proven the ability to get points. There is a chance. About 30% in my mind.

Galchenyuk MAY turn it around in Minnesota. If so, great for him and the Wild. But all signs suggest he WASN’T going to do that here. So moving him is good, regardless of how the rest of his season turns out. I have high hopes for Zucker sticking as a top 6 wing. So I see it as a fair trade, and a good one to make given the Pens Cup aspirations for this and the next three seasons.
Great58
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,227
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: On the blue line

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby 100565 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:09 pm

Agreed. Galchenyuk was useless on the Pens.
100565
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby steelershark on Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:45 pm

People are pissed at ghosts. Addison maybe an nhler, who knows. We have had first and 2nd round guy in this era who had great potential, but none are on the team now and are fringe nhlers. A low 1st round pick is a guess, some do well most are fringe players. We picked up a guy who has consistently put up numbers that Rust is putting up in a career year and the buzz is deafening. Chill out armchair GM's
steelershark
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:39 am

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:49 pm

On paper, I like it. But I've been burned too often that way so I said Wait and See.

I didn't like sending Addison, but they got POJ in the Kessel trade and I think he's more likely to have an impact than Addison was (if he can put on a few pounds, that is). We'll be moaning during the draft next year, but that's nothing new. Galchenyuk was getting what, maybe five minutes a game? And at that he wasn't doing very well.

Zucker looks like the type of player that will fit into Sully's system. Speed, grit, good game sense. Sounds like he's initially going to be put on Sid's line. We'll see if he has the knack for that pretty quickly I'd guess.
LimerickPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 11:04 am
Location: Unfortunately, Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby itissteeltime on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:19 pm

The more I think about it the more I like it.

We added a top 6 forward for 3 years, for a couple of unknowns. Going to be crazy when we add Jake back to that top 6.
itissteeltime
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,815
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: Raven/Capital Land

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Hatrick on Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:22 am

it likely isn't something that can even be figured out in a couple games, it will be a much longer period before it is revealed to be a truly bad or truly good deal.

On paper right now it looks like Guerin is the one who knew negotiated all the good trades JR made. 1st, high prospect and Galchenyuk for a good but overpaid winger is a terrible trade on paper. It will be at least two years before have a decent indication on if the trade was terrible or not but I am afraid of it being like when the pirates got archer.
Hatrick
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Jim on Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:47 am

:pop:
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,845
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby stonewizard51 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:37 am

I haven't watched Addison in Juniors so I don't know anything about his skill level. I'm not crazy about giving up a 1st round but as has been stated it was a late round pick so it would have been a crapshoot at best if the pick would see the NHL at some point. So with that in mind I went with too early to tell. One game does not say anything about whether or not the trade was worth it. I'll give Zucker 3-4 games to fit in with the system before I'm ready to say anything positive or negative. I'm hoping he doesn't become Brassard 2.0.
stonewizard51
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,882
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:26 pm

Re: Early Take on Zucker Trade

Postby Odd Man Rush on Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:24 pm

Barring injury, I don’t think there’s even a 5% chance that Galchenyuk outscores Zucker the rest of the way.

Zucker is going to play every night with an elite center. Galchenyuk isn’t even guaranteed to be a Minnesota’s lineup every night. When he is, there’s a really good chance he’s going to be on their third or fourth line.

Both will probably be on their respective teams’ second power play units.

Also, Zucker looks like a legitimate NHL player. Galchenyuk looks more like an AHL or KHL player.
Odd Man Rush
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:22 am

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


e-mail