2018 Summer Game Plan

[thehockeyguru]

I value Kris Letang more than Max Pacioretty. Way more. No deal! Now if GMJR can get him for someone else... maybe.

What is Letang's value?

-When it comes to the #1 PP its looked better with Schultz at the point he has shown he is a lot better at getting shots on net and not forcing bad passes.
-Looking at the PK, he doesnt block shots and doesnt have great defensive zone awareness. The only reason he is out there is because he's a RHD.
-He does play against the other teams top line but I wouldnt consider him a shutdown defenseman, he makes far too many mistakes positionally.

If you were to trade Letang the only thing you need to do IMO is find an effective way to spread out the minutes across 3 pairings. Martin has shown he can do it and the Pens won a Cup.

[Antonio]

I would move Letang for a pick frankly. I detest his presence on the team and I think he is terrible. He pretty much singlehandedly cost us the series against Washington and I just see no positive addition from having him and his 7+ million on the ice.

[penny lane]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

[thehockeyguru]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

[LimerickPensFan]

I would move Letang for a pick frankly. I detest his presence on the team and I think he is terrible. He pretty much singlehandedly cost us the series against Washington and I just see no positive addition from having him and his 7+ million on the ice.

You really need to take a breath and look at reality. You can point your finger at him for a single goal against. You're talking about giving away one of the more dynamic defensemen in the league in all areas of the ice for a draft pick. I'd love to see the makeup of the team that you would be managing if that's the type of decision you would make.

[LimerickPensFan]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

[Great58]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

It depends on which Letang shows up in 2018-2019. The Letang of last year was really bad, and I wouldn't criticize anyone thinking they'd be better without him on the team. But the Letang of 2015-2016 was a dynamic player, key to their breakout and transition game. It's not a coincidence that he scored the Cup-winning goal, he was a legitimate Conn Smyth candidate. That we won without him (without a true #1 D) in 2017 was an anomaly, not a blueprint for future success. While it's impossible to tell what this season will hold, the good news is that there was a concrete reason for Letang to have a bad season last year. Serious neck surgery, no preseason, etc. He did look better in the last part of the regular season, as well, but again struggled in the playoffs at times. What a full off season of conditioning and camp will do for him remains to be seen. But I wouldn't sell low on him, especially when defensive depth isn't a strength for us. At all.

[Jim]

The person that scored the second goal for a team that won 3-1 is basically the definition of coincidence in hockey terms.

[Puck-Lurker]

The person that scored the second goal for a team that won 3-1 is basically the definition of coincidence in hockey terms.

Personally, there's only one goal in that game that I remember.

Dumoulin's 1-0.

Guy didn't score for pretty much the *entire* season. Gets a good shot through a screen of teal-blues.

Dumoulin-Schultz. That was a thing back then. I miss that as second pair.

[thehockeyguru]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

I'd like to hear how.

[no name]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

It depends on which Letang shows up in 2018-2019. The Letang of last year was really bad, and I wouldn't criticize anyone thinking they'd be better without him on the team. But the Letang of 2015-2016 was a dynamic player, key to their breakout and transition game. It's not a coincidence that he scored the Cup-winning goal, he was a legitimate Conn Smyth candidate. That we won without him (without a true #1 D) in 2017 was an anomaly, not a blueprint for future success. While it's impossible to tell what this season will hold, the good news is that there was a concrete reason for Letang to have a bad season last year. Serious neck surgery, no preseason, etc. He did look better in the last part of the regular season, as well, but again struggled in the playoffs at times. What a full off season of conditioning and camp will do for him remains to be seen. But I wouldn't sell low on him, especially when defensive depth isn't a strength for us. At all.

It easy for a professional to have a bad year and come back. Sid had a year to forget, hell we all thought he lost it. I think Letang can and will regain his confidence. Even if the coaches changehis minutes and even his style to be more conservative he can be a very good defenseman. I guess the real question is will he be a 7.5m defenseman??

This also holds true for Jack Johnson. Keep our system the same and see if you can mold him into our style defenseman. I see Oleksiak and JJ as our 3rd pair, just got to wait and see who raises their game to be a productive member of the team. It also falls on the coaches and GM to find the right players and the right combos to get the most out of these guys.

I would think if you can get Ron Hainsey hockey mind in Jack Johnson, he could "fit" with us.

[Great58]

The person that scored the second goal for a team that won 3-1 is basically the definition of coincidence in hockey terms.

Is that a response to me? Letang had the most points for any Penguin in the Final series, most ice time, and scored the goal that won the game. The empty netter by Hornqvist doesn't happen if Letang doesn't break the tie, Mr. Ornery. It wasn't just some fluke play from an otherwise insignificant player in the series.

[LimerickPensFan]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

I'd like to hear how.

He had a bad year last year, and there is plenty of reason to think that was an abberation due to a serious neck injury. Prior to that, he was quite effective at getting the puck out of the defensive zone. He also is the strongest player on the team at getting the puck into the offensive zone while on a power play - significantly stronger than Schultz. While Schultz is better while in the zone on a power play, that doesn't come into play when you're getting stood up on the blue line every time you try to get it into the zone. This was killing us in the Caps series. We'd spend the first part of the power play just trying to get posession of the puck in the offensive zone.

He is tough on the boards. Willing to take a hit to clear the puck.

Sure, he makes an occastional mental mistake (more frequent last season, but when your body isn't working right, your mind doesn't always either). You know what, Paul Coffey made occasional mental mistakes as well. He's in the hall of fame, and I doubt anyone was calling for him to be traded.

[lemieuxReturns]

I dont like the idea that Letang had 1 off year. He has been a problem throughout his career sprinkled with some Norris level play. The issue he has ALWAYS had is that it goes from Norris level to pee-wee level. Half of the "miscommunication" between MAF and his defensemen was due to Letang. He does weird **** with the puck in his own end without any pressure whatsoever. He just takes unnecessary risks out there when we have had the most elite forward group in the entire NHL. All we ever needed was a defensemen to get the puck out and up to the forward group. It is still all we need. We dont need a defensemen who not only pinches on the regular, but also goes further than any mortal defensemen even dares. How many times have we seen Letang pinch, try and beat the forward, and skate the puck down below the goal only to be taken off the puck and try and rush back to play defense.

I think that if we could get some assets from a team who thinks that THEY need an offensive defensemen (looks like many teams still feel that way by the looks of the Karlsson discussions) then we would come out the winner. More skilled forwards supported 4 legit lines and just solid defensemen who can pass the puck out of the zone. Get it done JR.

[thehockeyguru]

I am not ready to put all trust into the 47 games played by Jamie Oleksiak. He of the one point in the 12 play off games.
No one player loses a six game series. It was a combo of defense, goalie. Bad goals given up with the lead.
Plus the non goal call on Hornqvist.
I certainly understand why nobody wants Letang. I went through the same thing with Fleury. Last memory of the last game played.

Its hard to argue that this team isn't better with Letang out of the lineup. If we could move Letang and bring in a guy or two in the ilk of Hainsey / Daley its a HUGE improvement defensively.

It's actually easy to argue that the team is better with Letang in the lineup.

I'd like to hear how.

He had a bad year last year, and there is plenty of reason to think that was an abberation due to a serious neck injury. Prior to that, he was quite effective at getting the puck out of the defensive zone. He also is the strongest player on the team at getting the puck into the offensive zone while on a power play - significantly stronger than Schultz. While Schultz is better while in the zone on a power play, that doesn't come into play when you're getting stood up on the blue line every time you try to get it into the zone. This was killing us in the Caps series. We'd spend the first part of the power play just trying to get posession of the puck in the offensive zone.

He is tough on the boards. Willing to take a hit to clear the puck.

Sure, he makes an occastional mental mistake (more frequent last season, but when your body isn't working right, your mind doesn't always either). You know what, Paul Coffey made occasional mental mistakes as well. He's in the hall of fame, and I doubt anyone was calling for him to be traded.

-The preferred method of getting the puck into the zone while on the PP has been the drop back pass to Kessel and him gaining the zone with speed. The Pens statistically have been better with Schultz on the #1 PP instead of Letang.

-Funny you bring up Coffey, he played for 9 NHL teams. Everyone loved his offense but his defensive zone coverage was horrible.

So to paraphrase why this team is better with Letang it's because he is better than Schultz and getting the puck into the zone on the PP and he is willing to take a hit to make a play? You dont need to spend 7.25M a season for that.

[lemieuxReturns]

Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376

[Antonio]

I dont like the idea that Letang had 1 off year. He has been a problem throughout his career sprinkled with some Norris level play. The issue he has ALWAYS had is that it goes from Norris level to pee-wee level. Half of the "miscommunication" between MAF and his defensemen was due to Letang. He does weird **** with the puck in his own end without any pressure whatsoever. He just takes unnecessary risks out there when we have had the most elite forward group in the entire NHL. All we ever needed was a defensemen to get the puck out and up to the forward group. It is still all we need. We dont need a defensemen who not only pinches on the regular, but also goes further than any mortal defensemen even dares. How many times have we seen Letang pinch, try and beat the forward, and skate the puck down below the goal only to be taken off the puck and try and rush back to play defense.

I think that if we could get some assets from a team who thinks that THEY need an offensive defensemen (looks like many teams still feel that way by the looks of the Karlsson discussions) then we would come out the winner. More skilled forwards supported 4 legit lines and just solid defensemen who can pass the puck out of the zone. Get it done JR.

Yup. Arguing Letang was xyz 3 years ago is meaningless. He was ATROCIOUS last year for pretty much an entire season and didn't blow me away all that much before. At 7m he's killing this team cost wise. If he's so goddamn good why isn't the phone ringing off the hook with awesome offers for him? Because I guar-an-****ing-tee you they would move him if they got a great offer. Seems like everyone else in the league sees him for what he is...a grossly overrated disaster that costs you a point (or more) for every time he earns you one and costs a fortune, not some dynamic superman who is a bargain and whose Phoenix like rise from the ashes this year is a certainty.

And anyone who argues that he and Murray alone didn't lose that series is deluding themselves. Yes, the whole team could have played better but frankly, without those two putting on the morons of the year show, we win that series.

As for moving him for a pick, addition by subtraction. Free up 7m a year and you could do something with it because I genuinely don't think this team is better with him on it. I'd love more but clearly that isn't happening....

[sil]

Letang was the MVP of the '16 Finals (not the whole playoffs mind you...just the Finals) in my book. He was extremely steady that series, and made some amazing plays for us. The cup-winning goal was just one example. He also played that Crosby set-up in game 2 OT to absolute perfection. He waited until the very last second as Sheary got into position and put the puck just where it had to be. The play that sticks out the most from that series though was the play he made along the boards in the 3rd period of game 1 when Burns had him pinned. Letang knew Burns didn't have a stick, so he held the puck and kept it just where he could pass it and waited for Bonino to get in front of the net. It was perfectly executed.

None of this takes away from how poorly he played this past Spring.

[LimerickPensFan]

I dont like the idea that Letang had 1 off year. He has been a problem throughout his career sprinkled with some Norris level play. The issue he has ALWAYS had is that it goes from Norris level to pee-wee level. Half of the "miscommunication" between MAF and his defensemen was due to Letang. He does weird **** with the puck in his own end without any pressure whatsoever. He just takes unnecessary risks out there when we have had the most elite forward group in the entire NHL. All we ever needed was a defensemen to get the puck out and up to the forward group. It is still all we need. We dont need a defensemen who not only pinches on the regular, but also goes further than any mortal defensemen even dares. How many times have we seen Letang pinch, try and beat the forward, and skate the puck down below the goal only to be taken off the puck and try and rush back to play defense.

I think that if we could get some assets from a team who thinks that THEY need an offensive defensemen (looks like many teams still feel that way by the looks of the Karlsson discussions) then we would come out the winner. More skilled forwards supported 4 legit lines and just solid defensemen who can pass the puck out of the zone. Get it done JR.

Your first paragraph described Paul Coffey when he was with the Pens. They had a pretty elite forward group when he was here as well. Can't tell you how many times he got caught pinching when he shouldn't have.

[LimerickPensFan]

I dont like the idea that Letang had 1 off year. He has been a problem throughout his career sprinkled with some Norris level play. The issue he has ALWAYS had is that it goes from Norris level to pee-wee level. Half of the "miscommunication" between MAF and his defensemen was due to Letang. He does weird **** with the puck in his own end without any pressure whatsoever. He just takes unnecessary risks out there when we have had the most elite forward group in the entire NHL. All we ever needed was a defensemen to get the puck out and up to the forward group. It is still all we need. We dont need a defensemen who not only pinches on the regular, but also goes further than any mortal defensemen even dares. How many times have we seen Letang pinch, try and beat the forward, and skate the puck down below the goal only to be taken off the puck and try and rush back to play defense.

I think that if we could get some assets from a team who thinks that THEY need an offensive defensemen (looks like many teams still feel that way by the looks of the Karlsson discussions) then we would come out the winner. More skilled forwards supported 4 legit lines and just solid defensemen who can pass the puck out of the zone. Get it done JR.

Yup. Arguing Letang was xyz 3 years ago is meaningless. He was ATROCIOUS last year for pretty much an entire season and didn't blow me away all that much before. At 7m he's killing this team cost wise. If he's so goddamn good why isn't the phone ringing off the hook with awesome offers for him? Because I guar-an-****ing-tee you they would move him if they got a great offer. Seems like everyone else in the league sees him for what he is...a grossly overrated disaster that costs you a point (or more) for every time he earns you one and costs a fortune, not some dynamic superman who is a bargain and whose Phoenix like rise from the ashes this year is a certainty.

And anyone who argues that he and Murray alone didn't lose that series is deluding themselves. Yes, the whole team could have played better but frankly, without those two putting on the morons of the year show, we win that series.

As for moving him for a pick, addition by subtraction. Free up 7m a year and you could do something with it because I genuinely don't think this team is better with him on it. I'd love more but clearly that isn't happening....

You get your neck operated on, then start a season without any workout leading up to it, and tell me you won't have a bad season. Especially when your calling card in the league has always been conditioning. Pardon me if I think that makes that season an abberation.

And no, neither he nor Murray prevented the Pens from scoring in several games. Too many 0-1 goal games. Many of the defensive breakdowns were due to offensive players not covering (they are responsible for that, you know).

[thehockeyguru]

I dont like the idea that Letang had 1 off year. He has been a problem throughout his career sprinkled with some Norris level play. The issue he has ALWAYS had is that it goes from Norris level to pee-wee level. Half of the "miscommunication" between MAF and his defensemen was due to Letang. He does weird **** with the puck in his own end without any pressure whatsoever. He just takes unnecessary risks out there when we have had the most elite forward group in the entire NHL. All we ever needed was a defensemen to get the puck out and up to the forward group. It is still all we need. We dont need a defensemen who not only pinches on the regular, but also goes further than any mortal defensemen even dares. How many times have we seen Letang pinch, try and beat the forward, and skate the puck down below the goal only to be taken off the puck and try and rush back to play defense.

I think that if we could get some assets from a team who thinks that THEY need an offensive defensemen (looks like many teams still feel that way by the looks of the Karlsson discussions) then we would come out the winner. More skilled forwards supported 4 legit lines and just solid defensemen who can pass the puck out of the zone. Get it done JR.

Yup. Arguing Letang was xyz 3 years ago is meaningless. He was ATROCIOUS last year for pretty much an entire season and didn't blow me away all that much before. At 7m he's killing this team cost wise. If he's so goddamn good why isn't the phone ringing off the hook with awesome offers for him? Because I guar-an-****ing-tee you they would move him if they got a great offer. Seems like everyone else in the league sees him for what he is...a grossly overrated disaster that costs you a point (or more) for every time he earns you one and costs a fortune, not some dynamic superman who is a bargain and whose Phoenix like rise from the ashes this year is a certainty.

And anyone who argues that he and Murray alone didn't lose that series is deluding themselves. Yes, the whole team could have played better but frankly, without those two putting on the morons of the year show, we win that series.

As for moving him for a pick, addition by subtraction. Free up 7m a year and you could do something with it because I genuinely don't think this team is better with him on it. I'd love more but clearly that isn't happening....

I'm with you, I'd move him today for the first offer.

[penny lane]

Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376

Phil is training... with Scary Gary! Very good.

[lemieuxReturns]

Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376

Phil is training... with Scary Gary! Very good.

The last time he did that he was after he was traded from Toronto....

[pens_CT]

Letang was the MVP of the '16 Finals (not the whole playoffs mind you...just the Finals) in my book. He was extremely steady that series, and made some amazing plays for us. The cup-winning goal was just one example. He also played that Crosby set-up in game 2 OT to absolute perfection. He waited until the very last second as Sheary got into position and put the puck just where it had to be. The play that sticks out the most from that series though was the play he made along the boards in the 3rd period of game 1 when Burns had him pinned. Letang knew Burns didn't have a stick, so he held the puck and kept it just where he could pass it and waited for Bonino to get in front of the net. It was perfectly executed.

None of this takes away from how poorly he played this past Spring.

No doubt that Letang played poorly last year. Murray was inconsistent and played well below the line he established in the previous two playoff runs. Once they got to the playoffs only Sid, Guentzel and Horny provided any offense. Seems like quite a few Penguins can be held responsible for the lack of performance in the playoffs but Letang gets more than his share of the blame.

[lemieuxReturns]

Letang was the MVP of the '16 Finals (not the whole playoffs mind you...just the Finals) in my book. He was extremely steady that series, and made some amazing plays for us. The cup-winning goal was just one example. He also played that Crosby set-up in game 2 OT to absolute perfection. He waited until the very last second as Sheary got into position and put the puck just where it had to be. The play that sticks out the most from that series though was the play he made along the boards in the 3rd period of game 1 when Burns had him pinned. Letang knew Burns didn't have a stick, so he held the puck and kept it just where he could pass it and waited for Bonino to get in front of the net. It was perfectly executed.

None of this takes away from how poorly he played this past Spring.

No doubt that Letang played poorly last year. Murray was inconsistent and played well below the line he established in the previous two playoff runs. Once they got to the playoffs only Sid, Guentzel and Horny provided any offense. Seems like quite a few Penguins can be held responsible for the lack of performance in the playoffs but Letang gets more than his share of the blame.

Well everyone on the team minus Letang and Murray put themselves in-between the puck and the goal.