The Pens direction so far

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby JeanPronovost on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:15 pm

taz71 wrote:what do you do?

interesting how the coaching staff and Fleury's contracts both expire in 2 years


MAF is up after 2015 season and HCDB after 2016. HCDB got a two-year extension on top of the year he still had remaining.
JeanPronovost
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:56 pm
Location: Cedar Hill, TX

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:24 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Ya'll keep focusing on 2013-2014, which is understandable. But these veteran signings are for 3-4 years, and when you look out to the 2016-2017 season, it's a real reason for concern.



Agreed.

I hate pretty much everything the Pens have done since game 4 except drafting a goalie in the second round.

The core is young but the depth is old, and depth is what gets you deep in the playoffs.

Cooke gone for 2.5 mil, he was one of best players in playoffs and big PK guy. Had some scoring ability too, 19 goals last full season.

Dupuis signed to age 38 and given some NMC protection..ouch

Kunitz signed to 38 and NMC protection..ouch

Scuderi signed to 38 and NMC protection..ouch. Too much lore surrounding this signing.

Adams signed till hes 104..does nothing 5v5..meh

HCDB extended for multiple years..ugh.

Letang signed for years and term giving them cap issues for the next few seasons, and NMC protection..vomit.

Same damn team as last year with a little 2009 nostalgia sprinkled in for effect. We're the Washington Capitals circa 2008-2010.
Fire0nice228
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,702
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: refs fault

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby taz71 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:26 pm

JeanPronovost wrote:
taz71 wrote:what do you do?

interesting how the coaching staff and Fleury's contracts both expire in 2 years


MAF is up after 2015 season and HCDB after 2016. HCDB got a two-year extension on top of the year he still had remaining.


o.o

thanks
taz71
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby Steve on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:59 pm

It wasn't that long ago that people argued here that Mario/ownership wouldn't or couldn't spend to the cap - now that they do, and for the most part, do it wisely - that still isn't enough?

Time will tell of course - but it doesn't appear that the Pens have many, if any, bad contracts. They do have some really good players on this team, the types of players that demand large contracts/term. But still, Shero has managed to get many of them signed at least less than they could have made elsewhere.

Maybe it's because I've sat through some really bad seasons with this team, and I'm too much of an optimist - but I like the direction of this team, and I'm looking forward to a deep playoff run sometime in the next few seasons.

We've got arguably the best two players on the planet, a bunch of really good complementary players, an ownership group that's willing to spend money, and a GM who's not afraid to take risks to try to win a cup - something by the way, that they've been able to achieve recently - which is no small feat, in a 30 team, parity driven league. I've seen a bunch of times here, people comparing us to the Capitals - none of that sounds like the Caps to me.
Steve
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,676
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 am
Location: Maryland

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby taz71 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:25 pm

Steve wrote:It wasn't that long ago that people argued here that Mario/ownership wouldn't or couldn't spend to the cap - now that they do, and for the most part, do it wisely - that still isn't enough?

Time will tell of course - but it doesn't appear that the Pens have many, if any, bad contracts. They do have some really good players on this team, the types of players that demand large contracts/term. But still, Shero has managed to get many of them signed at least less than they could have made elsewhere.

Maybe it's because I've sat through some really bad seasons with this team, and I'm too much of an optimist - but I like the direction of this team, and I'm looking forward to a deep playoff run sometime in the next few seasons.

We've got arguably the best two players on the planet, a bunch of really good complementary players, an ownership group that's willing to spend money, and a GM who's not afraid to take risks to try to win a cup - something by the way, that they've been able to achieve recently - which is no small feat, in a 30 team, parity driven league. I've seen a bunch of times here, people comparing us to the Capitals - none of that sounds like the Caps to me.


I became a PENS fan watching Lemieux. It is a rarity in life to see someone overcome such adversity. If he believes so do I.

I believe is this team, DB, and Shero.

Well said Steve! :fist:
taz71
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby pekkasteele on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:39 pm

I don't like the way things have turned out. Sign older players and not giving the younger once a chance (Despres, Bartuzzo and so on).

I was in the "trade Letang" group. Sure, we have good prospects on D, but, if they dont get a chance to prove them self, then they are not worth anything. And every Eaton signing takes time from every Despres in the NHL, and that makes those "top prospects" we have worth less. And yes, we dont have any good forward prospects and we keep trading draft picks for oldies so we won't get any more Bennets, trading Letang was about the only way to get some good F prospects.

Now, we trade away draft pics, and don't give the younger guys no time in NHL, tha will result in a team tha soon will retire, and then we have Sid, Malkin and Letang and ... have to sign more Adams and Glass type players .... youi don't will cops with Adams and Glass type players, you do it with a mix of young and old, young players on entry-level contracts, that we don't have, and wont get, since all our draft pics are traded for 35+ players.

I don't like it, I was hoping we traded Letang for some prospects at least, on F, that would play on entry level deals. So we would not need the Glass, Jefferys, Adamses and Kowawawa-what's hes name is that we signed.
pekkasteele
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:30 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby Mr. Colby on Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:23 pm

This is the first summer I've been in the opposite corner from shero. I find it hard to believe both dupuis and kunitz can provide top 6 value at age 38. They'll have to, considering they'll be making top 6 money.

Bylsma move was bad. Will be even worse when he refuses yet again to play kunitz with malkin.

Letang move was bad. Way too much term and money for a guy with so many holes in his game.

Fleury retained - I can get on board with this. I've always hated fleury, but there are no better options and 5million isnt all that bad. We know what he's capable of and its worth one (just one) more shot, considering he's the best of the available options. A 1 and 1a situation should be fine for next year.

Adams is whatever. Somebody will be playing 12 or 13 f minutes for 700k. You know what you get with him. Tons of heart and sacrifice and a smart albeit slow game. He was valuable in the playoffs and played well in them. Rather worthless 5 on 5 though.

Biggest problem - locked up 4 guys long term that aren't particularly physical in front of either net. duper kunitz letang and scuderi are not net front guys. Kunitz is closest, but he sure wasnt getting there in the broons series
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,749
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:13 am

Random thoughts that I worry about:

1. Our plethora of defensive prospects still being 3-4 years away from playing big minutes or being traded for good value.

2. Even if we trade those guys and want PMD value we are upside down in cap going out vs coming in. By that I mean we are missing out on low dollars first contracts by overloading at one position in our prospect pool.

3. Even if the cap raises $5 million per year we have 5 years before we can average $3 million per available roster spot.

4. Lack of forward prospects plus UFA prices to fill out roster seems tough next 3-4 years.

5. Based on nothing nor is this a prediction but worried Scuderi will fail miserably in HCDB's system. His type seems to fail here and at the very least be servicable elsewhere. Again: just a gut feeling to be worried nothing more, nothing less.

6. Role players not cutting here but being servicable elsewhere before and/or after leaving. Not saying Glass, Talbot, Fedetenko and Letestu are all stars but they are not embarrassments as they were here. So with Glass and probably a trade to fill out bottom 6 I'm a bit worried who get in wont fit.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,112
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:27 am

While I love locking up Geno and Sid long term and it remains to be seen whether or not an older, slower Rob Scuderi will solidify our back six....it's hard to argue this is nothing more than an older, softer and more expensive version of the same core group that has been overly disappointing since 2009.

Losing Cooke, Kennedy and even Morrow leaves huge holes in the bottom six. And despite all the "grit" added prior to the playoffs (all of which is now gone) we still lacked the big body to get into the dirty areas against Boston. That hasn't changed.

I still have such a hard time with the Islanders series. With DB, with MAF. We barely escaped another humiliating first round exit only because we had a backup option to MAF. That's it. Otherwise, we likely would have never even seen Ottawa. And that's the direction we want to continue on??
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,844
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby Pens4Life on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:27 am

soo far Shero made some weird decisions.. with Bylsma and also some re-signings and contract lenghts..
He needs to focus now strongly on getting our bottom 6 better.. We need 3rd line winger and 4th liner,we need some size and grit,we are soft team as we stand right now! We lost Iggy,Morrow,Cooke,Murray,TK.. all players that could hit and also grit..

I agree NJ5934,if it wasnt Vokoun we would be out after 1st round!
Pens4Life
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,507
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:29 pm

Man, this team is going to tear it up in the regular season.

Penguins' hockey between October and April is going to be something to behold, folks.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby topshelf on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:40 pm

DayWalker wrote:Man, this team is going to tear it up in the regular season.

Penguins' hockey between October and April is going to be something to behold, folks.


That sarcastic jab has been worn out over the past month.
topshelf
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,595
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:45 pm

topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Man, this team is going to tear it up in the regular season.

Penguins' hockey between October and April is going to be something to behold, folks.


That sarcastic jab has been worn out over the past month.


I am not being sarcastic. They are going to be really exciting to watch until the playoffs. Just like the Capitals almost always are.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby topshelf on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:03 pm

DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Man, this team is going to tear it up in the regular season.

Penguins' hockey between October and April is going to be something to behold, folks.


That sarcastic jab has been worn out over the past month.


I am not being sarcastic. They are going to be really exciting to watch until the playoffs. Just like the Capitals almost always are.



I love the general assumption that regular season success doesn't equate to anything, and yet the President's Trophy winner won the Cup.
topshelf
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,595
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby taz71 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:07 pm

This team is going to be a playoff team as it stands. That is point of assembling a regular season roster.

As far as the playoffs go I think we will have to judge that after the trade deadline.
taz71
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby offsides on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:09 pm

topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Man, this team is going to tear it up in the regular season.

Penguins' hockey between October and April is going to be something to behold, folks.


That sarcastic jab has been worn out over the past month.


I am not being sarcastic. They are going to be really exciting to watch until the playoffs. Just like the Capitals almost always are.



I love the general assumption that regular season success doesn't equate to anything, and yet the President's Trophy winner won the Cup.


To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.
offsides
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,477
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Man Cave in Washington, PA

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby no name on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:11 pm

The direction of this team is hard to predict. I can see a good regular season for us. Maybe a slow start with the new faces in the line up but overall Byslma has had success with the system he installed during the regular season. ( Teams who only have a day to prepare which is why a team with our talent is hard to play against. In 2 or 3 years when all these long term contracts start to add up and and players ages take their toll is when we will look back and ask what Shero was doing.

As everyone suggested its Dans playoff failure that sticks out. His lack of adjusting to the other teams strategy and getting hold of his players before the other team gets in their head. Stands out as the major down fall of this team.

And yes the questions surrounding our 3rd and 4th line personal needs to be addressed it will be a interesting first 10 games of the season to see who we have that can fill the line up. Sutter is the only bright spot in the bottom 6.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,048
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:14 pm

Yes, regular season success has translated into post-season success for the Blackhawks. The Sharks? Not so much. The Capitals? No so much. The Penguins? Not so much.

See, that is why I have grown weary of hearing about how certain Penguins produce in the regular season. At this point, it has grown really tiresome. Let me know the next time they do so when it matters.

Unfortunately, that also applies to Sid and Geno.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby topshelf on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:15 pm

offsides wrote:To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


We do have a great business model, and we should be thankful for it.
topshelf
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,595
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:17 pm

taz71 wrote:This team is going to be a playoff team as it stands. That is point of assembling a regular season roster.

As far as the playoffs go I think we will have to judge that after the trade deadline.


Hopefully they can avoid parting with yet another first-round pick at the deadline for a guy who had skates made out of cement.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:18 pm

topshelf wrote:
offsides wrote:To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


We do have a great business model, and we should be thankful for it.


So do the Caps and Sharks.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby offsides on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:21 pm

topshelf wrote:
offsides wrote:To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


We do have a great business model, and we should be thankful for it.


Just wish they had a little more playoff success to go with the business part.
offsides
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,477
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Man Cave in Washington, PA

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby topshelf on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:27 pm

DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
offsides wrote:To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


We do have a great business model, and we should be thankful for it.


So do the Caps and Sharks.


And the Blackhawks. And the Kings. And the Bruins.

The reality is if we expect to win the Cup every year, the odds are against us that we'll be let down. It is a difficult thing to do, and the salary cap pretty much negates a dynasty from happening.

Of course it sucked to lose like we did, it sucked for the whole team as well as the fans. I agree that a lot of that blame falls on Bylsma's shoulders, but, for whatever reason, Shero felt Bylsma was the guy for the job next year. Maybe Shero felt there were no better replacements out there. Maybe they will shake things up or try a different approach, maybe not. The fact that they met so long to discuss his fate tells me the former is true. But, if it doesn't work out and we fail again, then they reassess.

Sarcastically whining about it until May doesn't help. If you're that bent and untrusting, there are 29 other teams out there.
topshelf
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,595
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby DayWalker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:46 pm

topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
offsides wrote:To me, regular season success equates to a sold out arena, entertaining hockey and lots of money for the Pens. Pens have a great business model. And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


We do have a great business model, and we should be thankful for it.


So do the Caps and Sharks.


And the Blackhawks. And the Kings. And the Bruins.

The reality is if we expect to win the Cup every year, the odds are against us that we'll be let down. It is a difficult thing to do, and the salary cap pretty much negates a dynasty from happening.

Of course it sucked to lose like we did, it sucked for the whole team as well as the fans. I agree that a lot of that blame falls on Bylsma's shoulders, but, for whatever reason, Shero felt Bylsma was the guy for the job next year. Maybe Shero felt there were no better replacements out there. Maybe they will shake things up or try a different approach, maybe not. The fact that they met so long to discuss his fate tells me the former is true. But, if it doesn't work out and we fail again, then they reassess.

Sarcastically whining about it until May doesn't help. If you're that bent and untrusting, there are 29 other teams out there.


Sarcastically whining? Seriously, are you really advancing some kind of "love it or leave it" mentality, topshelf? Sorry, I was not aware that being disppointed with the team's last four playoff appearances--especially the last two--warrants a purge of fans who don't think Ray Shero's roster-construction skills have been the super bestest. I also wasn't aware that being able to see the distinction between the Penguins' performances in the regular season and performances in the playoffs justifies your self-righteous and tedious suggestion that lest I shut my trap and fall in, I can root for another team. Sorry, pal, but your "YEA, RAY SHERO! YEA, FULL BUILDING! YEA, REGULAR SEASON!" sentiments on behalf of the current roster do not make you arguments any more persuasive, contrary to what some elements of the LGP's collective hive mind might think. I hate to break it to you, but some of us have grown tired of seeing a super, full-of-awesome regular-season roster with generational talents win games against the Oilers or Blue Jackets in a full building in December, only to go on to **** the bed and puke all over itself in games that matter in the playoffs. This is not 2007. In the mean time, I will reserve the right to call myself a fan while continuing to criticize the team and its roster, whether you or others like it or not.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pens direction so far

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:22 pm

And This is the first time in quite a few years the Presidents winner also won the Cup.


It wasn't that long ago, Detroit just did it in 2008 against the Pens. In the salary cap era, President's Trophy winners have won the Cup 25% of the time. It's been given out as a trophy 27 times and the winner went on to win the Cup eight times, nearly a third of the time. Three additional times went to the Finals and lost. Five more times went to the conference finals and lost. Almost two thirds of the time you make it to the final four. I think people expect a better chance of winning than that but it's very likely the best probability of winning of any other spot. I remember looking at the last 20 or so years a couple seasons ago and the President's Trophy winner won the Cup more than anyone else.

President's Trophy isn't a guarantee to win a Cup but it's clearly a good sign that you've got a relatively strong chance. The occasional first round upset must give people the false perception that it's a curse but it's definitely not.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BurghThing, Candleonwater, DudeMan2766, Guido, Hugo Stiglitz, Humperdink, JS©, LEorangeTANG58, Loaf31, mikey287, NashvilleCat, Old Used Pylon, pens_CT, PghSkins, pressure=9Pa, Realist, sdadowski, sj?, Skatingpen, Stillerz Bar, zman102666 and 88 guests


e-mail