FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:28 am

Sarcastic wrote:So that's it? There's no work problem? We have like 85% of college grads moving in back with their parents because they can't find a job, 1/3 doesn't believe in college education anymore, and 50% don't believe they will ever own a house. It's a real crisis from where I'm looking. But if a couple of you found jobs, that's fantastic.

Yeah, huge pet peeve. Take a systemic issue, provide an anecdotal counter example, claim to have solved the problem.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby Shyster on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:49 am

Interesting. I wonder if this will change any opinions in the OWS movement (to the extent there still is one). Back when they were in full swing, libertarian-leaning people like Ron Paul supporters tried to participate in OWS gatherings. My brother, who shares most of my political positions, tried on multiple occasions to engage with the Pittsburgh OWS movement, particularly to try to get them to realize that their complaints--like bailouts for "too-big-to-fail" banks--cannot be addressed without curtailing the power of both big business and big government. He was rebuffed at every turn, and came to realize that most of the members of that movement were doctrinaire Democrats.

For example, the Pittsburgh OWS movement on several occasions protested the local offices of Senator Toomey over the federal government's bailouts of big business. But Toomey hadn't yet been elected at the time TARP and the stimulus bill were passed by Congress, and he has said multiple times that he wouldn't have voted for those bills and opposes what they do. On the other hand, Senator Casey was in office at the time those bills passed, and he actually voted for them. Did they protest Casey's local office? Nope, and when my brother asked why he had several OWS people essentially tell him that Casey was a Dem and therefore "one of us." I wonder how those same folks feel knowing that Obama's Justice Department and DHS was labeling them a terrorist movement. Sadly, I don't think most of them would change their reflexive partisanship.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:17 am

Shyster wrote:...Sadly, I don't think most of them would change their reflexive partisanship.

Agreed.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby IanMoran on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:39 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
Classifying as Terrorists = The Domestic Terrorism unit handled the event (which other department would?)

I'm as liberal as can be on federal law enforcement, but this article is making a lot out of nothing.


+1

TheHammer24 wrote:Yeah, huge pet peeve. Take a systemic issue, provide an anecdotal counter example, claim to have solved the problem.

+1

I guess I'll just let hammer speak for me on this subject lol
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby mac5155 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:06 am

Sarcastic wrote:So that's it? There's no work problem? We have like 85% of college grads moving in back with their parents because they can't find a job, 1/3 doesn't believe in college education anymore, and 50% don't believe they will ever own a house. It's a real crisis from where I'm looking. But if a couple of you found jobs, that's fantastic.


I'm curious to know what those 85% majored in. And what their GPA was. And what clubs they were in and community involvement while in school.

Just cause you have a diploma doesnt mean you deserve a job. A Literature major with a 2.1 GPA is a college grad, but you think a fortune 500 company wants him/her?
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:11 am

mac5155 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:So that's it? There's no work problem? We have like 85% of college grads moving in back with their parents because they can't find a job, 1/3 doesn't believe in college education anymore, and 50% don't believe they will ever own a house. It's a real crisis from where I'm looking. But if a couple of you found jobs, that's fantastic.


I'm curious to know what those 85% majored in. And what their GPA was. And what clubs they were in and community involvement while in school.

Just cause you have a diploma doesnt mean you deserve a job. A Literature major with a 2.1 GPA is a college grad, but you think a fortune 500 company wants him/her?


One thing a liberal arts degree shows, is a willingness to focus and dedication to accomplishing a goal.

Maybe it's not a 3.8 in Pre-Med, but it does show at least a minimal ability to stay on task and complete assignments.

When I was managing programmers and systems analysts back in the 80's and early 90's I used to seek out and hire those with music degrees. Some of the best programmers I've ever worked with we're musicians.

(drummers too ;) )
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:17 am

IanMoran wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Classifying as Terrorists = The Domestic Terrorism unit handled the event (which other department would?)

I'm as liberal as can be on federal law enforcement, but this article is making a lot out of nothing.



Ummmm, maybe the local law enforcement agencies? These were peaceful protests. There was no need for a Federal agency to be involved. Not only that, but the charter of said agency does not even come close to addressing such events.

This isn't about the views of OWS. That's totally irrelevant, it's about a Federal government overstepping its authority. Today it's OWS, tomorrow ...
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bh on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:35 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
bh wrote:
ulf wrote:OWS = wahhh

Spend that much effort actually trying to find a job, and I bet you'd end up with a job.
I don't like the movement, but planning assassinations and defining these people as terrorists is pretty despicable. Any dissent in this county from this point out is going to be branded 'terrorism' and once you movement gets that brand, anything goes. Locked up with no trial? Sure. Killed from a secret list? Could happen! It's not about the occupy movement, it's about how our government reacts to these situations.

Assassination = Prophylactic Sharp Shooters in case of uncontrolled riot
Classifying as Terrorists = The Domestic Terrorism unit handled the event (which other department would?)
I'm as liberal as can be on federal law enforcement, but this article is making a lot out of nothing.
I guess that you are right here. The article is overly dramatic and emotional. I still can't believe the level of effort and planning put into monitoring a relatively peaceful protest anymore. It just strikes me as overbearing.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby newarenanow on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:35 am

Stupid hippies.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:36 am

doublem wrote:
bhaw wrote:Going to say this again because it still annoys me:

Part of OWS was about how there are no jobs for people just out of college... I have needed 0-2 years experience people for a job that pays $60k on target in downtown Phoenix with direct access to nearby buses (1 block away) and the light rail (3 blocks away). Full benefits and a matching 401k. I was supposed to hire up to 12 for our Jan 14th training class. Guess how many I got? 2. And I only got 4 or 5 people in for interviews.

The problem is the college grads want the jobs to come to them and don't want to work for their money. Stop whining and look for the jobs... they are out there. Yes, you will actually have to put in a solid work day every day if you want to make more than you can at McDonalds. But I guess it's easier to whine while on daddy's dime than to put in any time finding work.

/rant


I don't think that's a fair statement at all.


What part? I've interviewed these people. Some of them work for me. I can say with certainty this is their mindset. Even the ones I hire expect to be promoted for being sub-standard to mediocre at their jobs.

Look up the term millennials. I'm technically one of them.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:38 am

i concur with bhaw's statement.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:40 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:So that's it? There's no work problem? We have like 85% of college grads moving in back with their parents because they can't find a job, 1/3 doesn't believe in college education anymore, and 50% don't believe they will ever own a house. It's a real crisis from where I'm looking. But if a couple of you found jobs, that's fantastic.

Yeah, huge pet peeve. Take a systemic issue, provide an anecdotal counter example, claim to have solved the problem.


I don't think the country is in great shape by any means. But the whole "there are no jobs for college grads" mantra is what is the anectodal nonsense. There are plenty of jobs. We aren't in any kind of boom, which means to get them you have to work harder and put yourself above the others.

Are you telling me that if you got a 3.8 in a desirable degree and bolstered your resume with work during college and/or internships and/or club leadership roles in school that you are going to have as tough a time finding a job?
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby ulf on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:41 am

I third that. Everyone my age wants the money but doesn't want to put in the dirty work needed to get there.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:43 am

ulf wrote:I third that. Everyone my age wants the money but doesn't want to put in the dirty work needed to get there.


"Everyone" obviously being the term used for the vocal idiots, who seem to be more in a majority than minority.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby ulf on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:44 am

Yes, I didn't mean it literally.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:48 am

ulf wrote:Yes, I didn't mean it literally.


Certain people in this thread like to pick apart semantics, so I figured I'd clarify for you (and me) ;)
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby newarenanow on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:48 am

I got a degree in Accounting with a GPA of like 3.4. It was difficult finding a job when I first graduated in 2000. I spent 3 months doing temp work, had to pay for my own insurance and didn't have much money. But I continued to get experience, finally got hired by a small CPA firm I interned for the summer before and took the job even though the pay was pooh.

But I sucked it up, got 3 years experience in that job, passed my CPA exam (something that will set you apart from other graduates, so I went the extra step), and eventually got my first decent job at a Big 4 accounting firm. I worked my butt off, traveled a ton, and worked a crap load of hours for 4 years until I got married and finally got a great job paying close to 6 figures at the time at a fortunate 100 company, and now have been here over 5 years. Still work hard, but it wasn't easy at all. I went through 3 years making less than $28K, studied hard for the CPA and had some debt to pay off.

Wife did a very similar thing, except she got her MBA at Katz while also working and we pretty much had very little social life for a period of 3-4 years, but today looking back it was all worth it.

I know not all stories will be like that, but IMO, sometimes if you want to find a job and make money, it may be in a field you do not love (there are not many jobs for history, music, etc degrees) and you may have to take your lumps early and live with debt for a few years. And yes, you do have to go above and beyond getting a college degree if you truly want to be successful.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby columbia on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:57 am

A lot of it has to do with the type of places that you want to work for. I imagine I could make 30K more than I do, but don't want to deal with the work culture aspects of places that would pay me that much more. (I work in IT.)

Once you get established, it's up to the individual to determine their "success."

I just took a new job and am perfectly happy being in one of the slower lanes, but obviously realize the economic trade off.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:04 pm

columbia wrote:A lot of it has to do with the type of places that you want to work for. I imagine I could make 30K more than I do, but don't want to deal with the work culture aspects of places that would pay me that much more. (I work in IT.)

Once you get established, it's up to the individual to determine their "success."

I just took a new job and am perfectly happy being in one of the slower lanes, but obviously realize the economic trade off.


Totally agree. You have to be happy. I was just using my work as an example where the money IS there for those that want it. And the situation we have isn't isolated as an "anecdotal example." I have a network of people that are in the same place... have a good job with solid money and a good work environment, but we can't get the candidates. Where's the gap between that and "there are no jobs!"?
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm

columbia wrote:A lot of it has to do with the type of places that you want to work for. I imagine I could make 30K more than I do, but don't want to deal with the work culture aspects of places that would pay me that much more. (I work in IT.)


There is something to be said for this. I know I could make more money as well (somewhere just under your neighborhood), but the trade-off of the added stress, drastically decreased flexibility and time off, and oversight isn't worth it to me right now. I enjoy a TON of leeway and autonomy in my job right now.

Haven't had a direct supervisor working in the same state as me since 2007 :)
Last edited by shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby newarenanow on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm

columbia wrote:A lot of it has to do with the type of places that you want to work for. I imagine I could make 30K more than I do, but don't want to deal with the work culture aspects of places that would pay me that much more. (I work in IT.)

Once you get established, it's up to the individual to determine their "success."

I just took a new job and am perfectly happy being in one of the slower lanes, but obviously realize the economic trade off.


I feel the same way. I work enough as it is, and if I wanted to, I could be in a faster lane, make a decent more amount of money, but I look at my boss and everyone above them, they pretty much have a 24/7 job, or I'd have to move/travel and I do not want to do that, and it is known. So I got to the place I want to be, I still work hard, there are promotable positions I can still obtain, but the pace will be much slower and the economic impact will be more gradual, but I am perfectly fine with that because I do not want to live the life my supervisors have.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby shmenguin on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm

graduated with a 3.75 GPA (highest in my department), won the award for outstanding senior student in my department...overall very employable. but it took me a full year to find a real job - and this was 10 years ago when things weren't abysmal. i only got 2 interviews in that time, and i only got those because of personal connections. looking back, i'm still not sure what the problem was (aside from going to school in an area where i couldn't stand to live in).

yeah, i know one person's story doesn't establish absolute truth, but for a lot of people out there, they just can't manage to get their careers started. i guess you can major in engineering or teaching or computer science, and then go get a job at enterprise rent a car or something, but is that an example of a success story? not really.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:15 pm

I agree with bhaw's sentiment. Someone already said, students see college as "the golden ticket". I'm at a decent school, and most kids live by "Cs get degrees". I was lucky to be offered a full time position for next year in October (graduate in May) by a firm with all in comp. near 6 figures. My roommates didn't even know about on campus recruiting! There are literally hundreds of job postings and I bet some never get filled. Most students are not willing to put in the extra effort to make themselves marketable, and are very picky about where they work (myself included), big city or bust.

Of course some students won't get jobs. If your goal in college was to get a job, pick a major that will get you there. Most if not all of our engineers get jobs in their field. There are great ops. for finance graduates at F500 rotational programs. A big problem is that somewhere between your sophomore and junior summers you have to switch gears from being a 'student' to a 'future employee'. Many never make the switch and as a result are ignorant of the opportunities available to them here.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:17 pm

Yeah the real issue isn't what the protests were over it's that the government classified peaceful protesters as terrorists and with NDAA that's a very dangerous and human rights violating thing.
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Re: FBI coordinated crackdown of Occupy

Postby Froggy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:23 pm

I had a very average GPA with a useless degree. I got fired from the job I had from 2001-2009 so I can't really use the bulk of my employment history entirely positively on a resume. I'm in my 30s and don't really possess any desirable skills.


Nothing I listed above is anyone's fault but my own. I'm not being oppressed by the government. I'm not the victim of a bad economy. I just wasted 5 years in college studying something I found interesting rather than something I wanted to do for a living. Then, I wasted pretty much my entire 20s in a retail job.

My issue with the occupy movement is that it's full of people in similar situations as the one I'm in, but who don't take ownership of these problems. not saying everyone is like that, but a significant enough percentage.
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