LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:49 pm

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. P. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Ryan
6. Roethlisberger
7. E. Manning
8. Newton
9. Luck
10. Dalton

Just missing the cut: Schaub, Rivers, RG3, Wilson

Bottom 5.

5. Flacco
4. Gabbert
3. Cutler
2. Tebow
1. Sanchez

Just outside: Fitzpatrick and Romo
Kovy27
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,561
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:56 pm
Location: Break Down the Walls of Kovy27

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Froggy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:00 pm

i don't even... dalton isn't a top 10 qb, and flacco and cutler are not bottom 5 qbs. even romo is closer to 10 than he is to bottom 5.
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,574
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:07 pm

Are these who you'd want right now for one game, or who you'd want now and for the next 3-5 years?
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kaizer on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:13 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:Kaepernick > brees?


my list is based on zero logic
Kaizer
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,324
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:02 am
Location: Crazy Town

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:44 pm

Yeah, that is a bizarre list (Kovy's). Agree on pretty much all of Froggy's points. Dalton is CLOSE to top 10, but just outside IMO.

RGIII's stats this year:

65.6% completion
102.4 QB rating
20 TD, 5 INT <---------------------
3,200 yds
Oh yeah, and almost had a thousand yard rushing season.

Not only is RGIII one of the best passing QBs in the NFL, he's one of the best rushers in the NFL. I mean seriously....the Redskins led the league with the fewest turnovers this year....with a rookie QB and RB!!!! Until he proves otherwise, he has firmly entrenched himself in the top echelon of NFL QBs.

Regarding Andrew Luck.....sure, the kid has some decent stats...but that is largely because the Colts have thrown the ball nearly 40 times a game.

He has 23 TDs, but a whopping 18 interceptions.
A semi-crappy 54% comp pct
9 lost fumbles, six more than RGIII who runs the ball a lot more
a 76.5 QB rating.

There is no way Luck is a Top 10 QB right now...that's not close IMO.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,830
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:02 pm

Yeah, Luck had some great comebacks, but his numbers overall weren't that great. This year, and going forward, I'd have to move GRIII further up the list, personal bias aside. Until he shows a slump, you have to base it on what you see. I could see putting Roethlisberger ahead of him based on history and longevity, but Newton? He was good last year, but Griffin was better this year, and Newton regressed this year.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:13 pm

I should also note that I am fairly confident RGIII won't regress next year. You don't throw only 1 INT every 80 attempts without having some legitimate game. Not to mention his whopping 66% completion pct.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,830
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:37 pm

Luck's stats don't tell the whole story given what he's asked to do relative to RGIII. When coupled with Alfred Morris, I take Luck over RGIII. Mike and Mike had an argument that I found very persuasive. Seahawks were a border line playoff team this year as were the Redskins. People, however, thought the Colts were going to have the #1 or #2 draft pick and they're the 5th Seed in the playoffs. I think that's compelling.
TheHammer24
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,024
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:28 pm

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:44 pm

RGIII would be soooooo much better if his receivers didn't have feet for hands.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,714
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:46 pm

Eh, that may be true, but I also think Indianapolis benefited from one of the easiest regular season schedules in recent memory.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,830
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:02 pm

MRandall25 wrote:RGIII would be soooooo much better if his receivers didn't have feet for hands.


This, and his best receiver, Garcon, missed 6+ games. You can also factor in that the Redskins have an atrocious pass defense that hindered their record.

The Shananhan's built a great offense for RG3 and he executed it terrifically.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:08 pm

I'll just say this in defense of Luck, who looked like a rookie at times this year, just like Peyton Manning did when he came in - Luck was put in a position to make more difficult passes (and at times, put himself in those situations as well) than RGIII had to make. Luck has no running game or offensive line really, he has Reggie Wayne and then a rookie speedster in Hilton and a guy that's bad at football in Donnie Avery, plus two rookie tight ends. It's not exactly an environment that's conducive to great statistics. If you know how to evaluate quarterbacks, you see so much in Andrew Luck - he is well beyond his years. And RGIII is terrific as well and honestly, they both have their pluses this year, big time.

Luck has the bigger upside long-term, but it's debatable who was better this year. I think Luck might have actually lost the rookie of the year prize because of the Redskins win in primetime vs. Dallas last night. Alfred Morris or RGIII probably just snatched it up. Which is ok, I mean, Sidney Crosby didn't win rookie of the year either.

Proper quarterback evaluation vs. statistical analysis is noteworthy in the discussion. Many paper-based evaluations will overstate players like Tom Brady, Matthew Stafford. Scouting-based evaluations would move Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers closer to the top noting some weaknesses in some of the paper favorites (Brady: footwork is a bit flat sometimes, below average deep ball; Stafford: multiple release points, a bit immature in terms of decision-making, lazy with elbow mechanics/positioning).

Back to RGIII and even Russell Wilson, the quarterback position as evolved quite a bit in even the last 10 years. It used to be you either had a "running" quarterback or a "pocket passer" - rarely did you have a good amount of both. Just now, you're starting to see some guys that can really throw and really run and do both really well. It's outstanding. Andrew Luck's ability and accuracy on the move for a rookie is something I've never seen and RGIII is right there too.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,105
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:17 pm

mikey287 wrote:Luck has the bigger upside long-term, but it's debatable who was better this year. I think Luck might have actually lost the rookie of the year prize because of the Redskins win in primetime vs. Dallas last night. Alfred Morris or RGIII probably just snatched it up. Which is ok, I mean, Sidney Crosby didn't win rookie of the year either.


Interesting. What makes you say Luck has the bigger long-term upside? RG3 has shown he is a very accurate passer and can run. Durability will probably be his greatest issue. I think Luck will be great too, but don't think either one really has a distinct long-term advantage.

As for rookie of the year... Think it's going to be Wilson. RG3 wasn't that great last night, even though they won. Morris has not shot.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:18 pm

Also just read an interesting look at the rookies:

Bonus Top 5: Rookie Edition
1) Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks: 1,014 DYAR (867 passing DYAR, 147 rushing)
2) Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins: 838 DYAR (729 passing DYAR, 109 rushing)
3) Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts: 379 DYAR (255 passing DYAR, 124 rushing)
4) Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins: 39 DYAR (37 passing DYAR, 2 rushing)
5) Brandon Weeden, Cleveland Browns: -266 DYAR (-290 passing DYAR, 24 rushing)

Wilson surpasses Ryan for the top rookie quarterback season in FO's database and becomes the first freshman at the position to surpass the 1,000 DYAR barrier. (Ryan actually edged over 1,000 DYAR passing, but negative rushing value dropped him below the line.) He also tied Manning's rookie record with 26 touchdown passes, and when you include his four rushing scores, only Cam Newton (21 touchdowns passing, 14 rushing) produced more combined touchdowns in his first year.

Griffin finishes fourth among rookies in our DYAR database behind Wilson, Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger, and Luck is 13th. Luck set a rookie record with 4,374 passing yards, but he completed fewer than 55 percent of his passes and had 18 interceptions, more than Griffin (5) and Wilson (10) combined. Tannehill had a pretty typical rookie campaign, but Weeden was a bust in his first season; given his advanced age (he's a year and a half older than Ryan), he will need to improve radically in his second season to salvage his NFL career.


It's an Insider piece:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/ ... -worst-qbs
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:25 pm

I agree with MWB....I have heard the automatic "Luck has the stronger upside" argument repeatedly, and I believe this is based on the fact he can't run. This season, RGIII was a more accurate and higher-rated passer than Luck was. The only argument I can see in Luck's favor is, as MWB pointed out, RGIII's durability.

That being said, RGIII would be perfectly fine transitioning to a primarily pocket passer, with escape abilities. His passing is solid.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,830
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:30 pm

MWB wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Luck has the bigger upside long-term, but it's debatable who was better this year. I think Luck might have actually lost the rookie of the year prize because of the Redskins win in primetime vs. Dallas last night. Alfred Morris or RGIII probably just snatched it up. Which is ok, I mean, Sidney Crosby didn't win rookie of the year either.


Interesting. What makes you say Luck has the bigger long-term upside? RG3 has shown he is a very accurate passer and can run. Durability will probably be his greatest issue. I think Luck will be great too, but don't think either one really has a distinct long-term advantage.

As for rookie of the year... Think it's going to be Wilson. RG3 wasn't that great last night, even though they won. Morris has not shot.


Andrew Luck is going to take some big hits in his career, partly because he runs but also because he plays in an Arians offense that will not run the ball, he has a relatively slow release, not unlike Ben, and does not have the size to absorb a lot of hits. Potential for him to have injury problems longer term. He also had the element of surprise most of the season; I only saw one full game of his, against the Jags, and he just found ways to be successful. Its an intangible, for sure, but you need a great team to win.

Wilson earned it if he wins, but my vote would still be for Luck. The most important player on the most improved team.
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,210
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:34 pm

MWB wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Luck has the bigger upside long-term, but it's debatable who was better this year. I think Luck might have actually lost the rookie of the year prize because of the Redskins win in primetime vs. Dallas last night. Alfred Morris or RGIII probably just snatched it up. Which is ok, I mean, Sidney Crosby didn't win rookie of the year either.


Interesting. What makes you say Luck has the bigger long-term upside? RG3 has shown he is a very accurate passer and can run. Durability will probably be his greatest issue. I think Luck will be great too, but don't think either one really has a distinct long-term advantage.


I've been singing the praises of Luck for some time now and it's a blessing that he ended up on Indianapolis, as far as I'm concerned. Luck has shown things at a young age that I haven't seen in a quarterback since Peyton Manning came in. His footwork in the pocket and through his throwing motion is that of a veteran already. The computer that he has inside his head is clearly working at optimal levels. Though he has shown a bit of immaturity at times and it has cost him, he learns quickly from those mistakes. Pre-snap, he's really in the upper-echelon already, in terms of the adjustments he can make at the line, the reads he makes on defenses, his ability to dictate the tempo and pace of the whole game as a rookie might even be better than that of Peyton as a rookie. And that's without even mentioning his hard count capabilities which are off the charts.

In Luck, I see a QB with just terrific everything, mechanically, mentally, in the pocket, on the move, 1st quarter, 4th quarter, it's just there all the time...huge upside with a high level of sustainability. He won't flash up, flash down like some other QBs (Cam Newton), he's going to just keep growing as a player and as individual and he's going to hit some pretty high peaks if I'm reading him right. RGIII is a fine passer, but I think long-term Luck will put a bigger distance between them than what it is right now. RGIII has been just terrific, I don't want to short sell him, this isn't a Luck vs. RGIII thing, they're both great. But in terms of biggest upside as a quarterback, Luck just has more of it than RGIII. But it might not be by a whole lot...I just think at some point(s) in Andrew Luck's career, he'll be considered the best QB in the game contemporaneously. RGIII will not. Whether that's 2nd or 4th or 7th, I don't know, but that's my feeling of it from watching them.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,105
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby CERV96 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:39 pm

CERV96
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,628
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:49 am
Location: It's poop again!

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:40 pm

1. Peyton
2. Brees
3. Rodgers
4. Eli
5. Brady
6. Roethlisberger
7. Ryan
8. Dalton
9. Newton
10. RGIII

I don't see how anyone could put Eli behind Brady anymore; he's literally outplayed him in 2 super bowls, and Brady has become a short-to-mid range passer almost exclusively.
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,210
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:45 pm

After this past season I'm not sure how anyone can put Eli ahead of Brady, or Newton ahead of RG3.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:46 pm

MWB wrote:After this past season I'm not sure how anyone can put Eli ahead of Brady, or Newton ahead of RG3.


ditto
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,830
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby JS© on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:49 pm

Kovy27 wrote:Bottom 5.

5. Flacco
4. Gabbert
3. Cutler
2. Tebow
1. Sanchez

Just outside: Fitzpatrick and Romo


You left out all of those hacks in Arizona?
JS©
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,152
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:52 am
Location: ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → [B] [A] [start]

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shmenguin on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:16 pm

griffin is a little like roethlisberger in his rookie year. very, very insulated from having to be exceptional, but still ended up with exceptional numbers. he will regress next year. but like ben, he still may end up being legit.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,410
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:21 pm

Meh, Griffin threw it 130 more times, had a greater completion percentage, and threw less interceptions than Roethlisberger. Yes, the Skins had a great running game, but he was a huge part of that. The offense was centered around Griffin.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,660
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby skullman80 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:30 pm

yeah i dont see the comparison with rg 3 to ben and his rookie year at all to be honest. rg 3 was asked to do alot more than ben was.
skullman80
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,805
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: New Kensington, PA

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eismann and 5 guests

e-mail