Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:45 pm

largegarlic wrote:I don't think the Pens are true contenders, but the way things are shaking out, it looks like a good bet that they'll make the playoffs as a lower seed. So, I don't think you get rid of Rust unless there's a ridiculously good offer. Even lower-seeded playoff teams don't sell off top-6 wingers for picks/prospects.


Rust isn’t the difference between a 1st round exit and deep in the playoffs. However, the 2 assets they get might be the difference in 2022-23 and beyond. I think losing Rust for nothing is foolish since this team might have 4 games in the playoffs and could possibly miss the playoffs. Having Rust doesn’t change that at all.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby dark_forces on Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:40 pm

Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't think the Pens are true contenders, but the way things are shaking out, it looks like a good bet that they'll make the playoffs as a lower seed. So, I don't think you get rid of Rust unless there's a ridiculously good offer. Even lower-seeded playoff teams don't sell off top-6 wingers for picks/prospects.


Rust isn’t the difference between a 1st round exit and deep in the playoffs. However, the 2 assets they get might be the difference in 2022-23 and beyond. I think losing Rust for nothing is foolish since this team might have 4 games in the playoffs and could possibly miss the playoffs. Having Rust doesn’t change that at all.


I'd bet on them keeping Rust too, at least until the end of the season. The only exception would be if an offer presented itself involving a current NHL roster player already under contract for next season - at a minimum. A move like this could help in the present and at least provide an asset if they believe Rust will absolutely not resign.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:47 pm

dark_forces wrote:
Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't think the Pens are true contenders, but the way things are shaking out, it looks like a good bet that they'll make the playoffs as a lower seed. So, I don't think you get rid of Rust unless there's a ridiculously good offer. Even lower-seeded playoff teams don't sell off top-6 wingers for picks/prospects.


Rust isn’t the difference between a 1st round exit and deep in the playoffs. However, the 2 assets they get might be the difference in 2022-23 and beyond. I think losing Rust for nothing is foolish since this team might have 4 games in the playoffs and could possibly miss the playoffs. Having Rust doesn’t change that at all.


I'd bet on them keeping Rust too, at least until the end of the season. The only exception would be if an offer presented itself involving a current NHL roster player already under contract for next season - at a minimum. A move like this could help in the present and at least provide an asset if they believe Rust will absolutely not resign.


I kinda agree with you and that’s why this franchise is destined to be the Detroit Red Wings. Guys like Rust and Dumoulin are prime examples of players at or about 30 that can be moved for younger and cheaper assets but both will be on the team until they are in their mid 30s when the team is a perennial lottery team. Don’t get me wrong, I think Rust and Dumoulin are very good players and we don’t see the success we’ve seen without them. But this team isn’t a Cup contender and neither will be around when they are again.

This team has had a great 15 years and I think we should be grateful, but it’s frustrating to see this great franchise not learn from the mistakes of other teams. Detroit created a template of what not to do and the Penguins are really a few good moves away from a 2-3 year retool rather than a 5-10 year rebuild. The last time the Red Wings got past the first wound was 2012-13 and not sure when the next time they will, 5-10 years for the Penguins might be optimistic if they don’t get a generational player.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:02 pm

Daniel wrote:
dark_forces wrote:
Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't think the Pens are true contenders, but the way things are shaking out, it looks like a good bet that they'll make the playoffs as a lower seed. So, I don't think you get rid of Rust unless there's a ridiculously good offer. Even lower-seeded playoff teams don't sell off top-6 wingers for picks/prospects.


Rust isn’t the difference between a 1st round exit and deep in the playoffs. However, the 2 assets they get might be the difference in 2022-23 and beyond. I think losing Rust for nothing is foolish since this team might have 4 games in the playoffs and could possibly miss the playoffs. Having Rust doesn’t change that at all.


I'd bet on them keeping Rust too, at least until the end of the season. The only exception would be if an offer presented itself involving a current NHL roster player already under contract for next season - at a minimum. A move like this could help in the present and at least provide an asset if they believe Rust will absolutely not resign.


I kinda agree with you and that’s why this franchise is destined to be the Detroit Red Wings. Guys like Rust and Dumoulin are prime examples of players at or about 30 that can be moved for younger and cheaper assets but both will be on the team until they are in their mid 30s when the team is a perennial lottery team. Don’t get me wrong, I think Rust and Dumoulin are very good players and we don’t see the success we’ve seen without them. But this team isn’t a Cup contender and neither will be around when they are again.

This team has had a great 15 years and I think we should be grateful, but it’s frustrating to see this great franchise not learn from the mistakes of other teams. Detroit created a template of what not to do and the Penguins are really a few good moves away from a 2-3 year retool rather than a 5-10 year rebuild. The last time the Red Wings got past the first wound was 2012-13 and not sure when the next time they will, 5-10 years for the Penguins might be optimistic if they don’t get a generational player.

I agree that the asset management really needs to be better here, and start looking 2-3 years down the road rather than the now.

In a vacuum, letting Rust walk away as a UFA isn't a bad thing. But, if they let Rust walk away, and then re-sign Malkin and Letang, to where they are not moved....that's an awful lot of assets that you are going to not get any future return on investment. I mean, yes, Malkin and Letang helped them get 3 Cups, but, as others have said, very few see this team as contenders. Instead of re-signing those guys, if a deal is available, get some valuable assets for them instead. Same with Rust...if they've had talks and they aren't going well, I would look to see if they can flip him for futures (1st or high prospect), or, see if somehow they can turn Rust into a usable asset that helps the team now. As an example (not saying this is fair or full deal), but, say STL liked Rust, and was willing to pay him 5.5-6.5M on a new deal...and would be interested in Rust plus something else for Tarasenko. It's not a future, but it is something that replaces Rust in the now. Tarasenko is a UFA after next season.

I'm not a fan of having 11-12M tied up in Guentzel and Rust as your top forwards. Maybe I'm being WAY too hard on Guentzel. He's been extremely hot, but, I still see a need for a better play-driving winger on this team. And with 12M tied up in Jake and Guentzel, I don't see that happening. I just don't like our overall top 6 winger mix right now.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:18 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
dark_forces wrote:
Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't think the Pens are true contenders, but the way things are shaking out, it looks like a good bet that they'll make the playoffs as a lower seed. So, I don't think you get rid of Rust unless there's a ridiculously good offer. Even lower-seeded playoff teams don't sell off top-6 wingers for picks/prospects.


Rust isn’t the difference between a 1st round exit and deep in the playoffs. However, the 2 assets they get might be the difference in 2022-23 and beyond. I think losing Rust for nothing is foolish since this team might have 4 games in the playoffs and could possibly miss the playoffs. Having Rust doesn’t change that at all.


I'd bet on them keeping Rust too, at least until the end of the season. The only exception would be if an offer presented itself involving a current NHL roster player already under contract for next season - at a minimum. A move like this could help in the present and at least provide an asset if they believe Rust will absolutely not resign.


I kinda agree with you and that’s why this franchise is destined to be the Detroit Red Wings. Guys like Rust and Dumoulin are prime examples of players at or about 30 that can be moved for younger and cheaper assets but both will be on the team until they are in their mid 30s when the team is a perennial lottery team. Don’t get me wrong, I think Rust and Dumoulin are very good players and we don’t see the success we’ve seen without them. But this team isn’t a Cup contender and neither will be around when they are again.

This team has had a great 15 years and I think we should be grateful, but it’s frustrating to see this great franchise not learn from the mistakes of other teams. Detroit created a template of what not to do and the Penguins are really a few good moves away from a 2-3 year retool rather than a 5-10 year rebuild. The last time the Red Wings got past the first wound was 2012-13 and not sure when the next time they will, 5-10 years for the Penguins might be optimistic if they don’t get a generational player.

I agree that the asset management really needs to be better here, and start looking 2-3 years down the road rather than the now.

In a vacuum, letting Rust walk away as a UFA isn't a bad thing. But, if they let Rust walk away, and then re-sign Malkin and Letang, to where they are not moved....that's an awful lot of assets that you are going to not get any future return on investment. I mean, yes, Malkin and Letang helped them get 3 Cups, but, as others have said, very few see this team as contenders. Instead of re-signing those guys, if a deal is available, get some valuable assets for them instead. Same with Rust...if they've had talks and they aren't going well, I would look to see if they can flip him for futures (1st or high prospect), or, see if somehow they can turn Rust into a usable asset that helps the team now. As an example (not saying this is fair or full deal), but, say STL liked Rust, and was willing to pay him 5.5-6.5M on a new deal...and would be interested in Rust plus something else for Tarasenko. It's not a future, but it is something that replaces Rust in the now. Tarasenko is a UFA after next season.

I'm not a fan of having 11-12M tied up in Guentzel and Rust as your top forwards. Maybe I'm being WAY too hard on Guentzel. He's been extremely hot, but, I still see a need for a better play-driving winger on this team. And with 12M tied up in Jake and Guentzel, I don't see that happening. I just don't like our overall top 6 winger mix right now.


The only problem with Jake is that he he’s a complementary player and needs a superstar on his line. Both to drive the play and take attention away from him. I think he’s a really good player, just not one you build a team around. I think the team is better off getting 2-3 assets for him, same with Rust.

Jake is hot right now, but is it because he’s hot or Crosby is getting more into game shape? Jake needs to be able to get hot without Crosby. If Jake got hot before Crosby got back I’d want to keep him, but has he ever gotten hot without playing with Crosby or Malkin?

As for Rust, I think it’s horrible asset management to let him go without getting something in return, even a draft pick.

If they can get 3-4 assets for Rust and Jake, I think it’s a worthwhile exchange.

Heck, if they think POJ is ready, why not a Rust and Dumoulin for Taransenko and a top draft pick as the starting point of a trade?
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:27 pm

So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:56 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.


You do realize that nobody wants players past their prime and the return is quite diminished? I’m not saying to trade Jake, I’m only saying that people need to get over this whole “take our bad players and give us useful stuff back” mentality.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:58 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.


That's the problem though, Jake is a decent player and a legit scorer with Crosby. He doesn't go on these hot streaks without Crosby (if he has in the past please say so) and he isn't someone to build the team around. He goes as Crosby goes and Crosby is declining. I'd love to keep Jake, but I don't want the franchise to become the Red Wings. Maybe you just have a higher opinion of Jake without Crosby than I do. I think he's a smart NHL player who can play good defense but gets pushed off the puck, can't fight in the corners, and needs a superstar to score. I think without Crosby, or with a declining Crosby, he won't score to the level we're used to. He's at his highest value right now, maybe for the rest of the season, but his production will drop soon in my opinion.

I keep saying out of Rust, Zucker, Kapanen, Guentzel that at least 2, probably 3, from that list need to be elsewhere next season. Rust should be traded or lost for nothing, I think Zucker is untradeable, and Kapanen won't get much in return. I think Rust and Jake can bring back 3-5 legit players (NHL ready, blue chip prospects, top 2-3 round picks, etc) to retool the team.

If you can find a scenario that keeps Jake and brings in a bunch of picks and at least one superstar (via trade, draft, UFA, whatever) I'm all for it. I just don't think the Penguins have much to offer outside of Rust//Jake and I think Jake's production will decline with Crosby.

Just to add, I don't think Jake should be traded today, or even this year, but I don't think it's wise to keep him on the roster through a rebuild. I think they'll need to trade him before his contract is up.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:01 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.

If your plan is to rebuild, you purge what you can to gain assets in hopes of speeding up the rebuild timeline. If it takes 5 years minimum to do a major rebuild:

1) You need to flat out stink as a team for a few years. That's the only way to gain top 10 picks and high end talent. You aren't going to have a successful rebuild with 5 years of picking 10th-20th in the 1st round. You need top 10 picks.

2) Rust and Jake aren't going to be in their prime when the team is ready to be competitive again. They'll be on the downside of their careers.

It has nothing to do with the players, and everything to do with the team. We've seen LA, Detroit, and Chicago all hold on too long and they are paying for it now. Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years. Ironically, the last 3 years Detroit did make the playoffs, they were bounced in the first round. So they haven't won a playoff round in 8 years (not making it 5 of those years). LA has made the playoffs twice in the last 7 years. The 2 years they did make it to the playoffs, they got swept and lost the other series 4-1. Chicago, missed playoffs 3 of the last 6 years, 2 years with first round exits (1 total playoff win in those 2 years), and 1 year where they won qualifying round then lost.

People don't want to hear it, but this is where the Penguins are. Their stars are aging and are no longer able to carry the team. The team has nothing in the prospect pipeline. No legitimate 1st line talent anywhere in the system. They don't have a true alpha on their team anymore. If they don't start the rebuild now, you are looking more like 5-10 years of being bad rather than maybe getting away with only 5. Detroit has several good young players like Larkin, Bertuzzi, Seider, Raymond that are starting to put Detroit back in the fringe of the playoff picture. The longer the Penguins hold onto the past greatness of this core, the longer it will take them to move onto the next phase. I don't know ANYBODY that thinks this team is a legitimate playoff contender. It's more...maybe we can sneak by and get lucky...if X and Y go right, maybe they make it 2-3 rounds. But I don't know anyone that truly believes this team can compete with the Tampa's, Florida's, Colorado's, etc.

It's time to tear it down.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:09 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.

If your plan is to rebuild, you purge what you can to gain assets in hopes of speeding up the rebuild timeline. If it takes 5 years minimum to do a major rebuild:

1) You need to flat out stink as a team for a few years. That's the only way to gain top 10 picks and high end talent. You aren't going to have a successful rebuild with 5 years of picking 10th-20th in the 1st round. You need top 10 picks.

2) Rust and Jake aren't going to be in their prime when the team is ready to be competitive again. They'll be on the downside of their careers.

It has nothing to do with the players, and everything to do with the team. We've seen LA, Detroit, and Chicago all hold on too long and they are paying for it now. Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years. Ironically, the last 3 years Detroit did make the playoffs, they were bounced in the first round. So they haven't won a playoff round in 8 years (not making it 5 of those years). LA has made the playoffs twice in the last 7 years. The 2 years they did make it to the playoffs, they got swept and lost the other series 4-1. Chicago, missed playoffs 3 of the last 6 years, 2 years with first round exits (1 total playoff win in those 2 years), and 1 year where they won qualifying round then lost.

People don't want to hear it, but this is where the Penguins are. Their stars are aging and are no longer able to carry the team. The team has nothing in the prospect pipeline. No legitimate 1st line talent anywhere in the system. They don't have a true alpha on their team anymore. If they don't start the rebuild now, you are looking more like 5-10 years of being bad rather than maybe getting away with only 5. Detroit has several good young players like Larkin, Bertuzzi, Seider, Raymond that are starting to put Detroit back in the fringe of the playoff picture. The longer the Penguins hold onto the past greatness of this core, the longer it will take them to move onto the next phase. I don't know ANYBODY that thinks this team is a legitimate playoff contender. It's more...maybe we can sneak by and get lucky...if X and Y go right, maybe they make it 2-3 rounds. But I don't know anyone that truly believes this team can compete with the Tampa's, Florida's, Colorado's, etc.

It's time to tear it down.


One more thing to add about Detroit. They might have pretty good prospects, but they haven't drafted in the top 3 in forever (Keith Primeau in 1990). Their last few first round picks have been 6, 4, 6, 6, 9. The Penguins have never won the Stanley Cup without a number one overall pick on the roster. Not that it's impossible to win the cup without a number one pick, but the next time the Penguins do it will be the first time.

The Penguins need to load up on prospects, draft picks, and salary cap space. Use the cap space for one more run and retool on the fly while starting a rebuild of the farm system.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:32 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:So not right to see people willing to sacrifice the only decent player we have entering the prime of his career for what? It is time to ditch the old guys, old stars, and build from youth up. You don't purge the guys entering their prime, just the ones whose prime has passed.

If your plan is to rebuild, you purge what you can to gain assets in hopes of speeding up the rebuild timeline. If it takes 5 years minimum to do a major rebuild:

1) You need to flat out stink as a team for a few years. That's the only way to gain top 10 picks and high end talent. You aren't going to have a successful rebuild with 5 years of picking 10th-20th in the 1st round. You need top 10 picks.

2) Rust and Jake aren't going to be in their prime when the team is ready to be competitive again. They'll be on the downside of their careers.

It has nothing to do with the players, and everything to do with the team. We've seen LA, Detroit, and Chicago all hold on too long and they are paying for it now. Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years. Ironically, the last 3 years Detroit did make the playoffs, they were bounced in the first round. So they haven't won a playoff round in 8 years (not making it 5 of those years). LA has made the playoffs twice in the last 7 years. The 2 years they did make it to the playoffs, they got swept and lost the other series 4-1. Chicago, missed playoffs 3 of the last 6 years, 2 years with first round exits (1 total playoff win in those 2 years), and 1 year where they won qualifying round then lost.

People don't want to hear it, but this is where the Penguins are. Their stars are aging and are no longer able to carry the team. The team has nothing in the prospect pipeline. No legitimate 1st line talent anywhere in the system. They don't have a true alpha on their team anymore. If they don't start the rebuild now, you are looking more like 5-10 years of being bad rather than maybe getting away with only 5. Detroit has several good young players like Larkin, Bertuzzi, Seider, Raymond that are starting to put Detroit back in the fringe of the playoff picture. The longer the Penguins hold onto the past greatness of this core, the longer it will take them to move onto the next phase. I don't know ANYBODY that thinks this team is a legitimate playoff contender. It's more...maybe we can sneak by and get lucky...if X and Y go right, maybe they make it 2-3 rounds. But I don't know anyone that truly believes this team can compete with the Tampa's, Florida's, Colorado's, etc.

It's time to tear it down.


One more thing to add about Detroit. They might have pretty good prospects, but they haven't drafted in the top 3 in forever (Keith Primeau in 1990). Their last few first round picks have been 6, 4, 6, 6, 9. The Penguins have never won the Stanley Cup without a number one overall pick on the roster. Not that it's impossible to win the cup without a number one pick, but the next time the Penguins do it will be the first time.

The Penguins need to load up on prospects, draft picks, and salary cap space. Use the cap space for one more run and retool on the fly while starting a rebuild of the farm system.

The Penguins also would be wise to make some good UFA signings, simply for the purpose of flipping those players for assets later in the year or the following year. Have to be careful, though, as you cannot just do that to all the players, otherwise, UFAs will stop signing with the team for fear they are just going to get flipped.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:14 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:One more thing to add about Detroit. They might have pretty good prospects, but they haven't drafted in the top 3 in forever (Keith Primeau in 1990). Their last few first round picks have been 6, 4, 6, 6, 9. The Penguins have never won the Stanley Cup without a number one overall pick on the roster. Not that it's impossible to win the cup without a number one pick, but the next time the Penguins do it will be the first time.

The Penguins need to load up on prospects, draft picks, and salary cap space. Use the cap space for one more run and retool on the fly while starting a rebuild of the farm system.

The Penguins also would be wise to make some good UFA signings, simply for the purpose of flipping those players for assets later in the year or the following year. Have to be careful, though, as you cannot just do that to all the players, otherwise, UFAs will stop signing with the team for fear they are just going to get flipped.


This upcoming offseason is an opportunity to completely retool the roster. You can realistically have Crosby, Malkin, Kapanen (maybe), McGinn, Bleuger, Heinen, O'Connor and 5 new forwards. Trade Dumoulin and Matheson and have Letang, Pettersson, Marino, and 3 other defensemen plus a backup goalie.

That would leave a ton of cap space in what's supposed to be a tremendous year for UFAs. Get 1-2 superstars and let the kids compete for the other spots. Something like that might totally backfire, but can it be worse than one round and out that we've seen the past few years and will likely see until the Penguins miss the playoffs?

Trade Rust, Guentzel, Zucker, Dumoulin, Matheson at either the trade deadline or at the draft and see if we have one more cup during the Sid/Geno/Kris era.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby BigMcK on Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:49 am

How many times have the Penguins gambled the future for the now, and came up short for an overpay? Loyalty completely understood, and I am a loyal fan, my fanatic support looks towards the future, and I am good selling high.

Letang will be okay to go to a Stanley Cup contender. Malkin, the same. Crosby is the lone player that is not offered for a trade, unless he asked for it.

Edmonton is a recent example of high draft picks, with little playoff success.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:31 pm

Would be interesting to see what the brass is thinking. The team was just sold at a high value but will soon have no stars capable of taking the team to the next level to get return on that investment. Malkin has had so many surgeries he is basically an aging cyborg. Letang looks decent but you can see with the significant increase in minutes for Marino where the team is heading in thought. That leaves Sid who still is decent player but the dropoff this year is noticeable and age only gives so many second chances.

My point here is if you trade Jake, then you basically have nothing as any player brought in will simply have a different form of his skill set. Clear the cap space you can and try the Ranger route. A couple snipers to string you along until younger guys can rise up in about 4-7 years.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby dark_forces on Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:42 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Would be interesting to see what the brass is thinking. The team was just sold at a high value but will soon have no stars capable of taking the team to the next level to get return on that investment. Malkin has had so many surgeries he is basically an aging cyborg. Letang looks decent but you can see with the significant increase in minutes for Marino where the team is heading in thought. That leaves Sid who still is decent player but the dropoff this year is noticeable and age only gives so many second chances.

My point here is if you trade Jake, then you basically have nothing as any player brought in will simply have a different form of his skill set. Clear the cap space you can and try the Ranger route. A couple snipers to string you along until younger guys can rise up in about 4-7 years.

I think the rangers are a terrific example of a rebuild done on the fly, so to speak, with solid results so far. If Hextall/Burke can put us on a similar path, that'd be optimal.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:04 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Would be interesting to see what the brass is thinking. The team was just sold at a high value but will soon have no stars capable of taking the team to the next level to get return on that investment. Malkin has had so many surgeries he is basically an aging cyborg. Letang looks decent but you can see with the significant increase in minutes for Marino where the team is heading in thought. That leaves Sid who still is decent player but the dropoff this year is noticeable and age only gives so many second chances.

My point here is if you trade Jake, then you basically have nothing as any player brought in will simply have a different form of his skill set. Clear the cap space you can and try the Ranger route. A couple snipers to string you along until younger guys can rise up in about 4-7 years.

The Rangers still missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 6 years, and 3 out of the last 4 years. The 3 years they made the playoffs...they only won one round.

This team is going to have to be bad for a few years. Trying to do the rebuild on the fly when you are going to lose 3 generational talent players is next to impossible. Trade away the talent...Malkin, Letang, Rust, Guentzel, Zucker, Dumoulin, Matheson, Carter...stockpile picks and prospects. Play more guys like Rodrigues, Heinen, DOC, Poulin, Legare, Hallander, Puustinen. Sign some UFAs that aren't going to be top scorers but are going to be good fits for Sullivan's system.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby DelPen on Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:29 pm

Time to call up Vancouver and get a ridiculous return for Boyle.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Ericf on Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:35 pm

dark_forces wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Would be interesting to see what the brass is thinking. The team was just sold at a high value but will soon have no stars capable of taking the team to the next level to get return on that investment. Malkin has had so many surgeries he is basically an aging cyborg. Letang looks decent but you can see with the significant increase in minutes for Marino where the team is heading in thought. That leaves Sid who still is decent player but the dropoff this year is noticeable and age only gives so many second chances.

My point here is if you trade Jake, then you basically have nothing as any player brought in will simply have a different form of his skill set. Clear the cap space you can and try the Ranger route. A couple snipers to string you along until younger guys can rise up in about 4-7 years.

I think the rangers are a terrific example of a rebuild done on the fly, so to speak, with solid results so far. If Hextall/Burke can put us on a similar path, that'd be optimal.


From 2017 to 2020, the Rangers also had multiple first round picks for a couple years and picked regularly in the top 10, including winning the draft lottery once and picking at #2 as well. They also paid a lot of money to sign a top five winger in Panarin. That’s what it’s going to take when Sid and G are finished here
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Daniel on Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:01 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Would be interesting to see what the brass is thinking. The team was just sold at a high value but will soon have no stars capable of taking the team to the next level to get return on that investment. Malkin has had so many surgeries he is basically an aging cyborg. Letang looks decent but you can see with the significant increase in minutes for Marino where the team is heading in thought. That leaves Sid who still is decent player but the dropoff this year is noticeable and age only gives so many second chances.

My point here is if you trade Jake, then you basically have nothing as any player brought in will simply have a different form of his skill set. Clear the cap space you can and try the Ranger route. A couple snipers to string you along until younger guys can rise up in about 4-7 years.

The Rangers still missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 6 years, and 3 out of the last 4 years. The 3 years they made the playoffs...they only won one round.

This team is going to have to be bad for a few years. Trying to do the rebuild on the fly when you are going to lose 3 generational talent players is next to impossible. Trade away the talent...Malkin, Letang, Rust, Guentzel, Zucker, Dumoulin, Matheson, Carter...stockpile picks and prospects. Play more guys like Rodrigues, Heinen, DOC, Poulin, Legare, Hallander, Puustinen. Sign some UFAs that aren't going to be top scorers but are going to be good fits for Sullivan's system.


I think a huge difference from Rangers and Penguins is Sid and Letang. If the Rangers had that starting point, they're much further along. They key to me is getting the next superstar with with Sid on the roster or 1-2 years after.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Pitts on Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:39 pm

Now that Rutherford is taking over Vancouver, I'd say there's a good possibility the Pens could trade Matheson and Zucker for Pettersson, Boesner and a 1st!!!
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby stonewizard51 on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:13 pm

Do it Shiro !! Oh wait !! Wrong GM. Come on Hextall !! :D
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby dark_forces on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:17 pm

Pitts wrote:Now that Rutherford is taking over Vancouver, I'd say there's a good possibility the Pens could trade Matheson and Zucker for Pettersson, Boesner and a 1st!!!


I was thinking something like POJ and Kapanen for Boesner. Vancouver reduces payroll and receives two players JR previously wanted. I'm not sure what Kapanen's value is at the moment, but through JR's eyes, it could be skewed when compared with the rest of the league.
Pittsburgh gets a legit top 6 wing who should be around for a while and can play with Crosby or Malkin. Yes, you're giving up two assets for one, but - given this scenario - it makes sense because you're building for the future but also addressing the present.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:23 pm

Pitts wrote:Now that Rutherford is taking over Vancouver, I'd say there's a good possibility the Pens could trade Matheson and Zucker for Pettersson, Boesner and a 1st!!!

What time does Brandon Sutter arrive at the Pittsburgh Airport? Rutherford has traded him twice off his teams.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby brwi on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:31 pm

Pitts wrote:Now that Rutherford is taking over Vancouver, I'd say there's a good possibility the Pens could trade Matheson and Zucker for Pettersson, Boesner and a 1st!!!

JR might insist on Kapanen also being included which shouldn't be an issue :D
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:35 pm

brwi wrote:
Pitts wrote:Now that Rutherford is taking over Vancouver, I'd say there's a good possibility the Pens could trade Matheson and Zucker for Pettersson, Boesner and a 1st!!!

JR might insist on Kapanen also being included which shouldn't be an issue :D

Boeser and Hoglander for Kapanen, Zucker, and Poulin. :lol:
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