Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Fri May 08, 2020 6:14 pm

In DK's Friday Insider piece, there was a small snippet about Nikita Pavylchev. Apparently, Rutherford is trying to get him signed, BUT....only to an AHL Only deal. Rutherford isn't sure if he will agree to that, but, he said they have done it with a few others in the past. He goes to the AHL and plays a pro season, and then the Penguins can get a better idea of his development and whether he can play at the pro level.

On an AHL only deal, however, there is a chance that another team could sign him to two-way NHL deal. One NHL source told Dave Molinari that no, that couldn't happen unless the player had an AHL Opt out clause in his contract. But another league source said, while technically that is true, it is very, very rare for a team to deny letting a player sign an NHL contract. If a team came along and wanted to offer an AHL Only contract player an NHL level two-way deal, most teams will agree to terminate the AHL deal and let the player sign the NHL deal.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby 100565 on Fri May 08, 2020 11:41 pm

Do you know why? is it number of xontracts? or maybe AHL only deal can be for less money than a two way deal's AHL side? Seems strange.

I would think Buffalo would try to sign him. I would expect Buffalo to sign many PSU free agents in the future.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Fri May 08, 2020 11:59 pm

100565 wrote:Do you know why? is it number of xontracts? or maybe AHL only deal can be for less money than a two way deal's AHL side? Seems strange.

I would think Buffalo would try to sign him. I would expect Buffalo to sign many PSU free agents in the future.

My gut says they just don't think he's going to be an NHL player. I haven't watched him a ton, but, the most common feedback I hear is that his skating is subpar. (although elite prospects from like 5 years ago says he is a deceptively strong skater) Giving him an AHL only deal shouldn't count against number of contracts. It's also a better way to say prove it. Bring him in on AHL only deal, make him prove them wrong in terms of his skills and development. But, not wanting to give him an NHL contract after 4 years of college doesn't seem like a good sign.

He's already 23, and, after a pretty strong showing in 2018-2019 with 14 goals, 29 points in 39 games, he dropped to 7g, 7a in 29 games this season. For a forward at his age, there isn't a lot of development time left. 23/24 is typically the final year of contracts for drafted guys in the AHL. Kuhnhackl was a guy going into the 15-16 season that was in this same situation for me...he was at the age where he needed to break through and show something that could keep him at the NHL level, or I figured the Penguins would non-qualify him and let him walk.

That's the risk of going to college. Dane Birks, Jeff Taylor, Freddy Tiffels, Joe Masonius. These are some of the more recent guys, mostly defensemen, that chose college, and staying for all 4 years, over turning pro. None of them developed enough in college to hang on to.

It would not surprise me if Pavylchev spurned the Penguins, and Billy Guerin snapped him up on a two-way deal. Guerin reportedly was a big fan of his when he was with the Penguins. As much as it stinks being a big PSU boy, he was almost assuredly a bottom 6 player if he made it to the NHL. Would have liked to see him make it, but..."dime a dozen"...maybe 2 dimes at 6'7".
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat May 09, 2020 8:56 am

FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:Do you know why? is it number of xontracts? or maybe AHL only deal can be for less money than a two way deal's AHL side? Seems strange.

I would think Buffalo would try to sign him. I would expect Buffalo to sign many PSU free agents in the future.

My gut says they just don't think he's going to be an NHL player. I haven't watched him a ton, but, the most common feedback I hear is that his skating is subpar. (although elite prospects from like 5 years ago says he is a deceptively strong skater) Giving him an AHL only deal shouldn't count against number of contracts. It's also a better way to say prove it. Bring him in on AHL only deal, make him prove them wrong in terms of his skills and development. But, not wanting to give him an NHL contract after 4 years of college doesn't seem like a good sign.

He's already 23, and, after a pretty strong showing in 2018-2019 with 14 goals, 29 points in 39 games, he dropped to 7g, 7a in 29 games this season. For a forward at his age, there isn't a lot of development time left. 23/24 is typically the final year of contracts for drafted guys in the AHL. Kuhnhackl was a guy going into the 15-16 season that was in this same situation for me...he was at the age where he needed to break through and show something that could keep him at the NHL level, or I figured the Penguins would non-qualify him and let him walk.

That's the risk of going to college. Dane Birks, Jeff Taylor, Freddy Tiffels, Joe Masonius. These are some of the more recent guys, mostly defensemen, that chose college, and staying for all 4 years, over turning pro. None of them developed enough in college to hang on to.

It would not surprise me if Pavylchev spurned the Penguins, and Billy Guerin snapped him up on a two-way deal. Guerin reportedly was a big fan of his when he was with the Penguins. As much as it stinks being a big PSU boy, he was almost assuredly a bottom 6 player if he made it to the NHL. Would have liked to see him make it, but..."dime a dozen"...maybe 2 dimes at 6'7".


I went to the last Penn State hockey game of the season vs Minnesota to check him out and I thought he was ok. His size and defensive smarts showed through more than his offensive skills even though he scored in the game. I agree that I see him as an average skater, my biggest knock on him was he didn't use his frame as much as he should and he wasnt overly physical.

He kind of reminded me of a very poor mans Brian Boyle.

I'd give him a shot at the AHL level to see if he can show a bit more energy and see if the passion is there.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby 100565 on Sat May 09, 2020 9:26 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:Do you know why? is it number of xontracts? or maybe AHL only deal can be for less money than a two way deal's AHL side? Seems strange.

I would think Buffalo would try to sign him. I would expect Buffalo to sign many PSU free agents in the future.

My gut says they just don't think he's going to be an NHL player. I haven't watched him a ton, but, the most common feedback I hear is that his skating is subpar. (although elite prospects from like 5 years ago says he is a deceptively strong skater) Giving him an AHL only deal shouldn't count against number of contracts. It's also a better way to say prove it. Bring him in on AHL only deal, make him prove them wrong in terms of his skills and development. But, not wanting to give him an NHL contract after 4 years of college doesn't seem like a good sign.

He's already 23, and, after a pretty strong showing in 2018-2019 with 14 goals, 29 points in 39 games, he dropped to 7g, 7a in 29 games this season. For a forward at his age, there isn't a lot of development time left. 23/24 is typically the final year of contracts for drafted guys in the AHL. Kuhnhackl was a guy going into the 15-16 season that was in this same situation for me...he was at the age where he needed to break through and show something that could keep him at the NHL level, or I figured the Penguins would non-qualify him and let him walk.

That's the risk of going to college. Dane Birks, Jeff Taylor, Freddy Tiffels, Joe Masonius. These are some of the more recent guys, mostly defensemen, that chose college, and staying for all 4 years, over turning pro. None of them developed enough in college to hang on to.

It would not surprise me if Pavylchev spurned the Penguins, and Billy Guerin snapped him up on a two-way deal. Guerin reportedly was a big fan of his when he was with the Penguins. As much as it stinks being a big PSU boy, he was almost assuredly a bottom 6 player if he made it to the NHL. Would have liked to see him make it, but..."dime a dozen"...maybe 2 dimes at 6'7".


I went to the last Penn State hockey game of the season vs Minnesota to check him out and I thought he was ok. His size and defensive smarts showed through more than his offensive skills even though he scored in the game. I agree that I see him as an average skater, my biggest knock on him was he didn't use his frame as much as he should and he wasnt overly physical.

He kind of reminded me of a very poor mans Brian Boyle.

I'd give him a shot at the AHL level to see if he can show a bit more energy and see if the passion is there.


Thanks for the feedback. There are not many players like him signed to AHL only deals. I do not get into scouting much; just read some scouting reports. They agree with your assessment.

I saw him play a few times; for being big he play sof.

On a side note, games at Pegula are fun! Highly recommended. My only complaint is the volume of the horn when a goal is scored! It hurts my ears.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 13, 2020 11:00 am

I said I'd take a look at this at some point, so, I guess now is the start. What would a Penguins roster look like under 3 scenarios (get ready for a novel):

1) 80M cap
2) 78M cap
3) 75M cap

To start, there are 16 players at the NHL level already signed for next season with a projected cap hit of 68.275M:
Forwards(41.85M, 10): Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Tanev, Rust, ZAR, Blueger
Defense(20.25M, 6): Letang, Dumoulin, Petterson, Johnson, Marino, Ruhwedel
Goalies(175K, 1 buried): DeSmith

The Penguins have 5 forward RFAs, 1 defense RFA, and 2 goalie RFAs:
Forwards: McCann, Simon, Rodrigues, Angello, Lafferty
Defense: Riikola
Goalies: Murray, Jarry

UFAs: Sheary, Marleau, Schultz

Main issues:

1) RFAs like McCann, Simon, Murray, and Jarry are almost assuredly going to have to sign short term deals (1-2 years) at below market value.
2) Trades are going to be very difficult. 75% of the league is going to be fighting the cap, which means trade partners are going to be harder to find. Add in that trading at the draft will likely be non-existent UNLESS the NHL cancels the season, and that will also make things difficult.
3) Overall goalie situation
4) Compliance buyouts or not.

To start, here's the roster with the current players that are signed:
1- Zucker-Crosby-X
2- Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
3- X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
4- ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Extras-X, X

1- Dumo-Letang
2- Petey-Marino
3- Johnson-Ruhwedel
Extras- X, X

Goalies- X, X

So, there is a need for 7 spots to be filled...2 starting forwards, 1 or 2 extra forwards, 1 or 2 extra defense, and 2 goalies.
At a 75M cap, Penguins are looking at just under 7M to add 7 players.
At a 78M cap, just under 10M.
At an 80M cap, just under 12M.

If there is a compliance buyout, I would actually use that buyout on Nick Bjugstad, not Jack Johnson. Maybe someone takes Bjugstad off our hands, but, an often injured 3C at 4.1M, in these times, is probably hard to get many, if any takers. A normal buyout of Bjugstad would only count 600K of his 4.1M on the books this year. He would count next year 1.75M against the cap. Johnson would count almost double against the cap this year, and have 5 additional years of impact on the cap. Penguins think he is serviceable. At this point, I think Johnson has more value to the team than Bjugstad.

So, my first action would be buyout Bjugstad, and sign McCann for 3 years at 3.5M...you are basically giving McCann Bjugstad's money and position.
My next two steps are to me, no brainers...you callup DeSmith to be your backup, and you sign Simon to 1M 1-2 year deal. Simon's numbers compared to others show he should get more, but, unless the league starts paying guys for being great corsi players, Simon's overall numbers are still propped up by Crosby. His output, his defense, etc...all better with Crosby than without. So Simon gets less and deals with it.

3rd step, pencil Sam Poulin in as your 3rd line LW. Start him on 3rd line LW...let him and Simon swap spots on occasion when Poulin is playing well.

McCann takes Bjugstad spot and $$$....wash
Simon for 1M
DeSmith for 1.075M (already had 175K counting for being buried in AHL)
Poulin for 925K

So you've added 3M and 3 players (4 if you count McCann, but you subtracted 1).
At a 75M cap, you are now at just under 4M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At a 78M cap, you are now at just under 7M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At an 80M cap, you are now at just under 9M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)

At the 78M and 80M caps, I sign Jarry for 2 years for 3M AAV. At a 75M cap, he takes a 1 year deal worth 2M.
At 75M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and the team has to have a 22 man roster.
At 78M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and sign a veteran forward for 1.5-2M.
Same at 80M.

The last piece is Murray. At 75M cap, if you trade Murray, it either needs to be for all futures (1st and 2nd rounder, 1st and a prospect, etc) or a high draft pick plus an ELC level player.
At 78M and 80M, you have a little more room to bring back a player with term, and most likely, I'd prefer a RD. Not sure who, but a solid #4/5 type guy that could play 3rd pairing RD, and play well enough to play 2nd pairing if Marino struggles or injuries occur.

Zucker-Crosby-Simon
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty

Dumo-Letang
Petey-Marino
JJ-Ruhwedel
xRiikola

Jarry
DeSmith
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby Steve Dave on Wed May 13, 2020 11:16 am

FLPensFan wrote:I said I'd take a look at this at some point, so, I guess now is the start. What would a Penguins roster look like under 3 scenarios (get ready for a novel):

1) 80M cap
2) 78M cap
3) 75M cap

To start, there are 16 players at the NHL level already signed for next season with a projected cap hit of 68.275M:
Forwards(41.85M, 10): Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Tanev, Rust, ZAR, Blueger
Defense(20.25M, 6): Letang, Dumoulin, Petterson, Johnson, Marino, Ruhwedel
Goalies(175K, 1 buried): DeSmith

The Penguins have 5 forward RFAs, 1 defense RFA, and 2 goalie RFAs:
Forwards: McCann, Simon, Rodrigues, Angello, Lafferty
Defense: Riikola
Goalies: Murray, Jarry

UFAs: Sheary, Marleau, Schultz

Main issues:

1) RFAs like McCann, Simon, Murray, and Jarry are almost assuredly going to have to sign short term deals (1-2 years) at below market value.
2) Trades are going to be very difficult. 75% of the league is going to be fighting the cap, which means trade partners are going to be harder to find. Add in that trading at the draft will likely be non-existent UNLESS the NHL cancels the season, and that will also make things difficult.
3) Overall goalie situation
4) Compliance buyouts or not.

To start, here's the roster with the current players that are signed:
1- Zucker-Crosby-X
2- Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
3- X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
4- ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Extras-X, X

1- Dumo-Letang
2- Petey-Marino
3- Johnson-Ruhwedel
Extras- X, X

Goalies- X, X

So, there is a need for 7 spots to be filled...2 starting forwards, 1 or 2 extra forwards, 1 or 2 extra defense, and 2 goalies.
At a 75M cap, Penguins are looking at just under 7M to add 7 players.
At a 78M cap, just under 10M.
At an 80M cap, just under 12M.

If there is a compliance buyout, I would actually use that buyout on Nick Bjugstad, not Jack Johnson. Maybe someone takes Bjugstad off our hands, but, an often injured 3C at 4.1M, in these times, is probably hard to get many, if any takers. A normal buyout of Bjugstad would only count 600K of his 4.1M on the books this year. He would count next year 1.75M against the cap. Johnson would count almost double against the cap this year, and have 5 additional years of impact on the cap. Penguins think he is serviceable. At this point, I think Johnson has more value to the team than Bjugstad.

So, my first action would be buyout Bjugstad, and sign McCann for 3 years at 3.5M...you are basically giving McCann Bjugstad's money and position.
My next two steps are to me, no brainers...you callup DeSmith to be your backup, and you sign Simon to 1M 1-2 year deal. Simon's numbers compared to others show he should get more, but, unless the league starts paying guys for being great corsi players, Simon's overall numbers are still propped up by Crosby. His output, his defense, etc...all better with Crosby than without. So Simon gets less and deals with it.

3rd step, pencil Sam Poulin in as your 3rd line LW. Start him on 3rd line LW...let him and Simon swap spots on occasion when Poulin is playing well.

McCann takes Bjugstad spot and $$$....wash
Simon for 1M
DeSmith for 1.075M (already had 175K counting for being buried in AHL)
Poulin for 925K

So you've added 3M and 3 players (4 if you count McCann, but you subtracted 1).
At a 75M cap, you are now at just under 4M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At a 78M cap, you are now at just under 7M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At an 80M cap, you are now at just under 9M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)

At the 78M and 80M caps, I sign Jarry for 2 years for 3M AAV. At a 75M cap, he takes a 1 year deal worth 2M.
At 75M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and the team has to have a 22 man roster.
At 78M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and sign a veteran forward for 1.5-2M.
Same at 80M.

The last piece is Murray. At 75M cap, if you trade Murray, it either needs to be for all futures (1st and 2nd rounder, 1st and a prospect, etc) or a high draft pick plus an ELC level player.
At 78M and 80M, you have a little more room to bring back a player with term, and most likely, I'd prefer a RD. Not sure who, but a solid #4/5 type guy that could play 3rd pairing RD, and play well enough to play 2nd pairing if Marino struggles or injuries occur.

Zucker-Crosby-Simon
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty

Dumo-Letang
Petey-Marino
JJ-Ruhwedel
xRiikola

Jarry
DeSmith

Do you think Hallander has as good a shot to make the team as Poulin?
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Spoiler:
I said I'd take a look at this at some point, so, I guess now is the start. What would a Penguins roster look like under 3 scenarios (get ready for a novel):

1) 80M cap
2) 78M cap
3) 75M cap

To start, there are 16 players at the NHL level already signed for next season with a projected cap hit of 68.275M:
Forwards(41.85M, 10): Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Tanev, Rust, ZAR, Blueger
Defense(20.25M, 6): Letang, Dumoulin, Petterson, Johnson, Marino, Ruhwedel
Goalies(175K, 1 buried): DeSmith

The Penguins have 5 forward RFAs, 1 defense RFA, and 2 goalie RFAs:
Forwards: McCann, Simon, Rodrigues, Angello, Lafferty
Defense: Riikola
Goalies: Murray, Jarry

UFAs: Sheary, Marleau, Schultz

Main issues:

1) RFAs like McCann, Simon, Murray, and Jarry are almost assuredly going to have to sign short term deals (1-2 years) at below market value.
2) Trades are going to be very difficult. 75% of the league is going to be fighting the cap, which means trade partners are going to be harder to find. Add in that trading at the draft will likely be non-existent UNLESS the NHL cancels the season, and that will also make things difficult.
3) Overall goalie situation
4) Compliance buyouts or not.

To start, here's the roster with the current players that are signed:
1- Zucker-Crosby-X
2- Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
3- X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
4- ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Extras-X, X

1- Dumo-Letang
2- Petey-Marino
3- Johnson-Ruhwedel
Extras- X, X

Goalies- X, X

So, there is a need for 7 spots to be filled...2 starting forwards, 1 or 2 extra forwards, 1 or 2 extra defense, and 2 goalies.
At a 75M cap, Penguins are looking at just under 7M to add 7 players.
At a 78M cap, just under 10M.
At an 80M cap, just under 12M.

If there is a compliance buyout, I would actually use that buyout on Nick Bjugstad, not Jack Johnson. Maybe someone takes Bjugstad off our hands, but, an often injured 3C at 4.1M, in these times, is probably hard to get many, if any takers. A normal buyout of Bjugstad would only count 600K of his 4.1M on the books this year. He would count next year 1.75M against the cap. Johnson would count almost double against the cap this year, and have 5 additional years of impact on the cap. Penguins think he is serviceable. At this point, I think Johnson has more value to the team than Bjugstad.

So, my first action would be buyout Bjugstad, and sign McCann for 3 years at 3.5M...you are basically giving McCann Bjugstad's money and position.
My next two steps are to me, no brainers...you callup DeSmith to be your backup, and you sign Simon to 1M 1-2 year deal. Simon's numbers compared to others show he should get more, but, unless the league starts paying guys for being great corsi players, Simon's overall numbers are still propped up by Crosby. His output, his defense, etc...all better with Crosby than without. So Simon gets less and deals with it.

3rd step, pencil Sam Poulin in as your 3rd line LW. Start him on 3rd line LW...let him and Simon swap spots on occasion when Poulin is playing well.

McCann takes Bjugstad spot and $$$....wash
Simon for 1M
DeSmith for 1.075M (already had 175K counting for being buried in AHL)
Poulin for 925K

So you've added 3M and 3 players (4 if you count McCann, but you subtracted 1).
At a 75M cap, you are now at just under 4M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At a 78M cap, you are now at just under 7M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At an 80M cap, you are now at just under 9M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)

At the 78M and 80M caps, I sign Jarry for 2 years for 3M AAV. At a 75M cap, he takes a 1 year deal worth 2M.
At 75M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and the team has to have a 22 man roster.
At 78M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and sign a veteran forward for 1.5-2M.
Same at 80M.

The last piece is Murray. At 75M cap, if you trade Murray, it either needs to be for all futures (1st and 2nd rounder, 1st and a prospect, etc) or a high draft pick plus an ELC level player.
At 78M and 80M, you have a little more room to bring back a player with term, and most likely, I'd prefer a RD. Not sure who, but a solid #4/5 type guy that could play 3rd pairing RD, and play well enough to play 2nd pairing if Marino struggles or injuries occur.

Zucker-Crosby-Simon
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty

Dumo-Letang
Petey-Marino
JJ-Ruhwedel
xRiikola

Jarry
DeSmith

Do you think Hallander has as good a shot to make the team as Poulin?

No. I think Hallander has zero shot to make the team. Hallander is a good player, but not anywhere near the same level as Poulin. Poulin impressed right out of the gate last year, at dev camp, and in training camp/preseason. Hallander hasn't done much, and last year he broke his leg...missed half the season.

Hallander will need to come to US this year, and play at least a full season at the AHL level on the smaller ice surface for me to get a feel of where he is at. But no shot this year.

Even Legare, I'm told, regressed a bit this season. Yes, he was on a horrible team, but, he didn't have as strong of a season, with and without the puck, from what I have heard.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby pens_CT on Wed May 13, 2020 12:41 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Spoiler:
I said I'd take a look at this at some point, so, I guess now is the start. What would a Penguins roster look like under 3 scenarios (get ready for a novel):

1) 80M cap
2) 78M cap
3) 75M cap

To start, there are 16 players at the NHL level already signed for next season with a projected cap hit of 68.275M:
Forwards(41.85M, 10): Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Tanev, Rust, ZAR, Blueger
Defense(20.25M, 6): Letang, Dumoulin, Petterson, Johnson, Marino, Ruhwedel
Goalies(175K, 1 buried): DeSmith

The Penguins have 5 forward RFAs, 1 defense RFA, and 2 goalie RFAs:
Forwards: McCann, Simon, Rodrigues, Angello, Lafferty
Defense: Riikola
Goalies: Murray, Jarry

UFAs: Sheary, Marleau, Schultz

Main issues:

1) RFAs like McCann, Simon, Murray, and Jarry are almost assuredly going to have to sign short term deals (1-2 years) at below market value.
2) Trades are going to be very difficult. 75% of the league is going to be fighting the cap, which means trade partners are going to be harder to find. Add in that trading at the draft will likely be non-existent UNLESS the NHL cancels the season, and that will also make things difficult.
3) Overall goalie situation
4) Compliance buyouts or not.

To start, here's the roster with the current players that are signed:
1- Zucker-Crosby-X
2- Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
3- X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
4- ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Extras-X, X

1- Dumo-Letang
2- Petey-Marino
3- Johnson-Ruhwedel
Extras- X, X

Goalies- X, X

So, there is a need for 7 spots to be filled...2 starting forwards, 1 or 2 extra forwards, 1 or 2 extra defense, and 2 goalies.
At a 75M cap, Penguins are looking at just under 7M to add 7 players.
At a 78M cap, just under 10M.
At an 80M cap, just under 12M.

If there is a compliance buyout, I would actually use that buyout on Nick Bjugstad, not Jack Johnson. Maybe someone takes Bjugstad off our hands, but, an often injured 3C at 4.1M, in these times, is probably hard to get many, if any takers. A normal buyout of Bjugstad would only count 600K of his 4.1M on the books this year. He would count next year 1.75M against the cap. Johnson would count almost double against the cap this year, and have 5 additional years of impact on the cap. Penguins think he is serviceable. At this point, I think Johnson has more value to the team than Bjugstad.

So, my first action would be buyout Bjugstad, and sign McCann for 3 years at 3.5M...you are basically giving McCann Bjugstad's money and position.
My next two steps are to me, no brainers...you callup DeSmith to be your backup, and you sign Simon to 1M 1-2 year deal. Simon's numbers compared to others show he should get more, but, unless the league starts paying guys for being great corsi players, Simon's overall numbers are still propped up by Crosby. His output, his defense, etc...all better with Crosby than without. So Simon gets less and deals with it.

3rd step, pencil Sam Poulin in as your 3rd line LW. Start him on 3rd line LW...let him and Simon swap spots on occasion when Poulin is playing well.

McCann takes Bjugstad spot and $$$....wash
Simon for 1M
DeSmith for 1.075M (already had 175K counting for being buried in AHL)
Poulin for 925K

So you've added 3M and 3 players (4 if you count McCann, but you subtracted 1).
At a 75M cap, you are now at just under 4M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At a 78M cap, you are now at just under 7M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At an 80M cap, you are now at just under 9M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)

At the 78M and 80M caps, I sign Jarry for 2 years for 3M AAV. At a 75M cap, he takes a 1 year deal worth 2M.
At 75M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and the team has to have a 22 man roster.
At 78M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and sign a veteran forward for 1.5-2M.
Same at 80M.

The last piece is Murray. At 75M cap, if you trade Murray, it either needs to be for all futures (1st and 2nd rounder, 1st and a prospect, etc) or a high draft pick plus an ELC level player.
At 78M and 80M, you have a little more room to bring back a player with term, and most likely, I'd prefer a RD. Not sure who, but a solid #4/5 type guy that could play 3rd pairing RD, and play well enough to play 2nd pairing if Marino struggles or injuries occur.

Zucker-Crosby-Simon
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty

Dumo-Letang
Petey-Marino
JJ-Ruhwedel
xRiikola

Jarry
DeSmith

Do you think Hallander has as good a shot to make the team as Poulin?

No. I think Hallander has zero shot to make the team. Hallander is a good player, but not anywhere near the same level as Poulin. Poulin impressed right out of the gate last year, at dev camp, and in training camp/preseason. Hallander hasn't done much, and last year he broke his leg...missed half the season.

Hallander will need to come to US this year, and play at least a full season at the AHL level on the smaller ice surface for me to get a feel of where he is at. But no shot this year.

Even Legare, I'm told, regressed a bit this season. Yes, he was on a horrible team, but, he didn't have as strong of a season, with and without the puck, from what I have heard.


Hallander signed to play in Sweden again next year, so he's not playing at WBS. The guy doesn't turn 20 until next month, so at this time next year we'll probably have a better idea of what kind of player he is going to be.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 13, 2020 12:56 pm

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Spoiler:
I said I'd take a look at this at some point, so, I guess now is the start. What would a Penguins roster look like under 3 scenarios (get ready for a novel):

1) 80M cap
2) 78M cap
3) 75M cap

To start, there are 16 players at the NHL level already signed for next season with a projected cap hit of 68.275M:
Forwards(41.85M, 10): Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Tanev, Rust, ZAR, Blueger
Defense(20.25M, 6): Letang, Dumoulin, Petterson, Johnson, Marino, Ruhwedel
Goalies(175K, 1 buried): DeSmith

The Penguins have 5 forward RFAs, 1 defense RFA, and 2 goalie RFAs:
Forwards: McCann, Simon, Rodrigues, Angello, Lafferty
Defense: Riikola
Goalies: Murray, Jarry

UFAs: Sheary, Marleau, Schultz

Main issues:

1) RFAs like McCann, Simon, Murray, and Jarry are almost assuredly going to have to sign short term deals (1-2 years) at below market value.
2) Trades are going to be very difficult. 75% of the league is going to be fighting the cap, which means trade partners are going to be harder to find. Add in that trading at the draft will likely be non-existent UNLESS the NHL cancels the season, and that will also make things difficult.
3) Overall goalie situation
4) Compliance buyouts or not.

To start, here's the roster with the current players that are signed:
1- Zucker-Crosby-X
2- Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
3- X-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
4- ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Extras-X, X

1- Dumo-Letang
2- Petey-Marino
3- Johnson-Ruhwedel
Extras- X, X

Goalies- X, X

So, there is a need for 7 spots to be filled...2 starting forwards, 1 or 2 extra forwards, 1 or 2 extra defense, and 2 goalies.
At a 75M cap, Penguins are looking at just under 7M to add 7 players.
At a 78M cap, just under 10M.
At an 80M cap, just under 12M.

If there is a compliance buyout, I would actually use that buyout on Nick Bjugstad, not Jack Johnson. Maybe someone takes Bjugstad off our hands, but, an often injured 3C at 4.1M, in these times, is probably hard to get many, if any takers. A normal buyout of Bjugstad would only count 600K of his 4.1M on the books this year. He would count next year 1.75M against the cap. Johnson would count almost double against the cap this year, and have 5 additional years of impact on the cap. Penguins think he is serviceable. At this point, I think Johnson has more value to the team than Bjugstad.

So, my first action would be buyout Bjugstad, and sign McCann for 3 years at 3.5M...you are basically giving McCann Bjugstad's money and position.
My next two steps are to me, no brainers...you callup DeSmith to be your backup, and you sign Simon to 1M 1-2 year deal. Simon's numbers compared to others show he should get more, but, unless the league starts paying guys for being great corsi players, Simon's overall numbers are still propped up by Crosby. His output, his defense, etc...all better with Crosby than without. So Simon gets less and deals with it.

3rd step, pencil Sam Poulin in as your 3rd line LW. Start him on 3rd line LW...let him and Simon swap spots on occasion when Poulin is playing well.

McCann takes Bjugstad spot and $$$....wash
Simon for 1M
DeSmith for 1.075M (already had 175K counting for being buried in AHL)
Poulin for 925K

So you've added 3M and 3 players (4 if you count McCann, but you subtracted 1).
At a 75M cap, you are now at just under 4M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At a 78M cap, you are now at just under 7M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)
At an 80M cap, you are now at just under 9M to add a goalie and 2-3 extras (F/D)

At the 78M and 80M caps, I sign Jarry for 2 years for 3M AAV. At a 75M cap, he takes a 1 year deal worth 2M.
At 75M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and the team has to have a 22 man roster.
At 78M, I sign Lafferty to 1 year deal worth 800K, bring back Riikola for 1M, and sign a veteran forward for 1.5-2M.
Same at 80M.

The last piece is Murray. At 75M cap, if you trade Murray, it either needs to be for all futures (1st and 2nd rounder, 1st and a prospect, etc) or a high draft pick plus an ELC level player.
At 78M and 80M, you have a little more room to bring back a player with term, and most likely, I'd prefer a RD. Not sure who, but a solid #4/5 type guy that could play 3rd pairing RD, and play well enough to play 2nd pairing if Marino struggles or injuries occur.

Zucker-Crosby-Simon
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty

Dumo-Letang
Petey-Marino
JJ-Ruhwedel
xRiikola

Jarry
DeSmith

Do you think Hallander has as good a shot to make the team as Poulin?

No. I think Hallander has zero shot to make the team. Hallander is a good player, but not anywhere near the same level as Poulin. Poulin impressed right out of the gate last year, at dev camp, and in training camp/preseason. Hallander hasn't done much, and last year he broke his leg...missed half the season.

Hallander will need to come to US this year, and play at least a full season at the AHL level on the smaller ice surface for me to get a feel of where he is at. But no shot this year.

Even Legare, I'm told, regressed a bit this season. Yes, he was on a horrible team, but, he didn't have as strong of a season, with and without the puck, from what I have heard.


Hallander signed to play in Sweden again next year, so he's not playing at WBS. The guy doesn't turn 20 until next month, so at this time next year we'll probably have a better idea of what kind of player he is going to be.

Thanks. Missed that signing. Unless he is a downright dominate player in the SHL (he hasn't been), I really don't think the Penguins will know what they have until he plays some games in North America.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby 100565 on Wed May 13, 2020 6:18 pm

That is a realistic roster with each cap limit. Also, I agree, the rosters will be pretty stagnant --- unless the NHL can get creative with some cap options for teams - maybe some sort of buyout without cap ramifications. I do think they should figure away to have player movement - trades, signings, and buyouts. Roster movement seems to get fans talking; make things a little more exciting.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 13, 2020 6:35 pm

100565 wrote:That is a realistic roster with each cap limit. Also, I agree, the rosters will be pretty stagnant --- unless the NHL can get creative with some cap options for teams - maybe some sort of buyout without cap ramifications. I do think they should figure away to have player movement - trades, signings, and buyouts. Roster movement seems to get fans talking; make things a little more exciting.

I think the problem will be so many teams will be cap stretched that, unless teams are making dollar for dollar swaps, trades will be difficult.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby 100565 on Wed May 13, 2020 6:43 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:That is a realistic roster with each cap limit. Also, I agree, the rosters will be pretty stagnant --- unless the NHL can get creative with some cap options for teams - maybe some sort of buyout without cap ramifications. I do think they should figure away to have player movement - trades, signings, and buyouts. Roster movement seems to get fans talking; make things a little more exciting.

I think the problem will be so many teams will be cap stretched that, unless teams are making dollar for dollar swaps, trades will be difficult.

Certainly agree. If cap rules are same as previois years, there will be little movement.

I'm simply saying it is time for NHL to get a little creative to "entice" more roster movement to peak interest. Fans love trades and roster movement. It cannot be too over the top, but a stagnant league will not help their dire ecomomic situation.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby penny lane on Thu May 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
·Dominik Simon is recovering from successful shoulder surgery.
Simon suffered the injury on February 29 in a game against the Sharks.
He is expected to be sidelined for 6-7 months.

Full details: https://pens.pe/2LsU3tx


Random news... to come out today.
Good luck to Dom Simon.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby 100565 on Thu May 14, 2020 4:59 pm

penny lane wrote:
Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
·Dominik Simon is recovering from successful shoulder surgery.
Simon suffered the injury on February 29 in a game against the Sharks.
He is expected to be sidelined for 6-7 months.

Full details: https://pens.pe/2LsU3tx


Random news... to come out today.
Good luck to Dom Simon.


DKSporys has article with interview of Sully. He said Rust with Malkin and Crosby with Guentzel.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2020 ... Fhl1WE5CHo
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu May 14, 2020 8:05 pm

100565 wrote:
penny lane wrote:
Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
·Dominik Simon is recovering from successful shoulder surgery.
Simon suffered the injury on February 29 in a game against the Sharks.
He is expected to be sidelined for 6-7 months.

Full details: https://pens.pe/2LsU3tx


Random news... to come out today.
Good luck to Dom Simon.


DKSporys has article with interview of Sully. He said Rust with Malkin and Crosby with Guentzel.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2020 ... Fhl1WE5CHo


Why wait til now? Was he trying to rehab it?
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby Ericf on Thu May 14, 2020 8:46 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
100565 wrote:
penny lane wrote:
Pittsburgh Penguins
@penguins
·Dominik Simon is recovering from successful shoulder surgery.
Simon suffered the injury on February 29 in a game against the Sharks.
He is expected to be sidelined for 6-7 months.

Full details: https://pens.pe/2LsU3tx


Random news... to come out today.
Good luck to Dom Simon.


DKSporys has article with interview of Sully. He said Rust with Malkin and Crosby with Guentzel.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2020 ... Fhl1WE5CHo


Why wait til now? Was he trying to rehab it?


I think it probably was Covid-19....elective non emergency surgeries were put on hold until recently
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu May 14, 2020 9:11 pm

That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 14, 2020 9:16 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?


We were in the playoffs at the moment the season ended, so I would think that enables the Wild to get our first round pick this year.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby Daniel on Thu May 14, 2020 9:40 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?


We were in the playoffs at the moment the season ended, so I would think that enables the Wild to get our first round pick this year.


On the surface I disagree since the Penguins played no playoff games. I think the NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate situations like this. Would also have take into consideration how the draft plays out, points per game or all team lotto.

PS - Just to add, it would depend on the wording in the trade and if their is a season canceled clause. If their isn't, technically the Penguins didn't make the playoffs for two reasons. Didn't clinch and didn't play a game.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 pm

Daniel wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?


We were in the playoffs at the moment the season ended, so I would think that enables the Wild to get our first round pick this year.


On the surface I disagree since the Penguins played no playoff games. I think the NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate situations like this. Would also have take into consideration how the draft plays out, points per game or all team lotto.

PS - Just to add, it would depend on the wording in the trade and if their is a season canceled clause. If their isn't, technically the Penguins didn't make the playoffs for two reasons. Didn't clinch and didn't play a game.


If there isn't a clause to address this and the season is canceled, then I guess we wait for the NHL to make a ruling. God help us.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 pm

Daniel wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?


We were in the playoffs at the moment the season ended, so I would think that enables the Wild to get our first round pick this year.


On the surface I disagree since the Penguins played no playoff games. I think the NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate situations like this. Would also have take into consideration how the draft plays out, points per game or all team lotto.

PS - Just to add, it would depend on the wording in the trade and if their is a season canceled clause. If their isn't, technically the Penguins didn't make the playoffs for two reasons. Didn't clinch and didn't play a game.


If there isn't a clause to address this and the season is canceled, then I guess we wait for the NHL to make a ruling. God help us.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby Daniel on Thu May 14, 2020 10:56 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:That makes sense.

So what happens if they cancel the season? Do the Wild still get our 2020 1st?


We were in the playoffs at the moment the season ended, so I would think that enables the Wild to get our first round pick this year.


On the surface I disagree since the Penguins played no playoff games. I think the NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate situations like this. Would also have take into consideration how the draft plays out, points per game or all team lotto.

PS - Just to add, it would depend on the wording in the trade and if their is a season canceled clause. If their isn't, technically the Penguins didn't make the playoffs for two reasons. Didn't clinch and didn't play a game.


If there isn't a clause to address this and the season is canceled, then I guess we wait for the NHL to make a ruling. God help us.


I think it’ll be tied to whether they do a full league lottery compared to something else. If the Wild win the Penguins lottery pick in a situation like this (or any other team that has 1st pending playoffs) it would be a really bad situation for the NHL.
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby longtimefan on Fri May 15, 2020 7:32 am

The thing I found interesting was that Sully wouldn't commit to which wing Jake would play. I'm not sure it was what Sully was suggesting, or Molinari's conjecture. What added fuel to the fire was that while Rust would play with Malkin, they hadn't penciled anybody to play the left side, although Marleau was an obvious candidate.

Sullivan would not specify whether Guentzel, who will be returning from shoulder surgery that sidelined him since Dec. 30, would be used on the right or left wing; he is capable of playing either side and the same is true of Jason Zucker and Conor Sheary, who were playing with Crosby when the league shut down.

One guy who apparently isn't a candidate to work with Crosby and Guentzel is Bryan Rust, because Sullivan has him penciled in elsewhere.

"I think (Evgeni Malkin) has developed a certain chemistry with (Rust)," Sullivan said. "I think (Rust's) speed helps (Malkin's) line. That's one of the reasons we put him there in the first place, and we really like how that chemistry has developed over the course of this season. Thats why (Rust) has consistently been there. Then we have options to move guys around those guys."

Patrick Marleau, who was on the left side with Malkin and Rust after being acquired from San Jose at the trade deadline, is among the possibilities to fill out the line, although nothing has been finalized.

"He's definitely a candidate, but there's a number of those guys," Sullivan said. "It all depends on how it plays out."


I'm probably reading too much into it. There's not a lot to talk about right now! :) But the suggestion seems to be that this is what they've penciled in to start with.

Zucker Crosby Guentzel
Marleau Malkin Rust

Even after learning that Simon is out, they still are carrying 10 more forwards. I'd expect the 4th line to remain intact, at least at the beginning. ZAR had a great season defensively, and the line was rock solid all season. They're a 4th line though. The offense might have some promise, but it's limited.

ZAR Blueger Tanev

Now you cobble a 3rd line out of McCann, Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Sheary, Rodrigues, Lafferty, and Angello.

I was upset last year when they moved Jake to the right side, because he was tearing it up on the left. But it didn't seem to slow him down at all. McCann looked like a prefect complement on the left side. Even though it didn't last, it suggested that Jake might handle the switch without a noticeable drop off.

The big loser in that scenario is Sheary. There's a pretty good chance he's scratched, which would greatly diminish any chance of him being re-signed. His worth to the team is the ability to complement the top 6. The flip side would be they get a chance to take a closer look at Marleau, and how he fits. They do seem to like that long in the tooth veteran around. Be it Guerin or Cullen. You can even throw Trottier into that mix. Somebody for Sid to hand the cup off to first. :) I've been a proponent for a while that I'd like to see how he fits, because I think there's a very good chance he can be re-signed. There's no chance he'll retire. He'll become the NHL record holder for most games played next season. He trails Howe by only 40+ games. He also took a league minimum deal to play this season. A far as moving from the West Coast, he showed he was willing to do that when he signed with the Leafs for 3 years. He's never won a Cup. It might come down to returning to SJ to set the record, or sign with the Pens and chase a cup. He'd be a very inexpensive, valuable, roster piece. Even if he only plays in the top 6 sporadically. I tend to believe there's a better than 50/50 chance he'll return.

Bjugstad may be given a chance to play on the 3rd line with McCann and Hornqvist. But I can't see any scenario where they retain him for next season. His cap hit just doesn't fit. McCann seems to be the designated 3C, and Blueger made a case that he may be able to climb the ladder. The best hope for Nick is to salvage some sort of trade value.

Lafferty and Angello will be re-signed, but neither is guaranteed a spot. Lafferty probably has the inside track, but I didn't see enough from Angello to suggest he'll make the opening night roster. The player I've become intrigued with is Rodrigues. I don't like his cap hit. But the Pens can retain his rights by qualifying him. Or let him become a UFA and try to re-sign him for less. He had a few games right before the shut down that made me want to get a better look. He moves well and has some skill. Although ZAR earned his niche this season, he may need to fight off Rodrigues next season. Evan would add a different dynamic, and may bring out more offense on that line.

Just some thoughts going through my head after seeing Molinari's article. and some thinking out loud. I do miss just plain old hockey talk! :D
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Re: Pens 2020 - 2021 Season Roster

Postby Jim on Fri May 15, 2020 9:14 am

Given your outline above, I would say a McCann, Bjugstad, Hornqvist 3rd.

Angello is just no. Rodrigues is not what that 3rd line needs. I prefer McCann at wing, knocking Sheary. That leaves Bjugstad and Lafferty. I like Lafferty but I gotta go with Bjugstad. Yes, he started poorly this year, but that could have been injury related. He has played 45 games as a Pen and has 10 goals. That is basically a 20 goal pace even with only 1 goal in 13 games this year. I think that a line of McCann, Bjugstad, Hornqvist (especially as the cobbled together line) could be rather difficult for opposition to play against.
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