Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decision

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Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decision

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:21 pm

Matt Vensel of the PG has a new article on the Murray/Jarry decision coming this summer. Included in the article is some feedback from former goalies/analysts Brian Boucher and Corey Hirsch, as well as former player/agent/GM Brian Lawton. I thought there was some really good info in this article, and takes from former goalies and current analysts. Some of the highlights, as well as a link to the full article below:

Skills wise:

Boucher on Murray taking a step forward after Fleury dealt: “If you’re asking if he took a step forward, I would say no, he did not,” said NBC Sports analyst Brian Boucher, the former Philadelphia Flyers goalie, last week.

Lawton on Murray: “I thought he would really run with things and be a goaltender that plays 60-plus games. That hasn’t happened yet. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen,” said NHL Network analyst Brian Lawton, the former NHL player, GM and agent. “He’s a year from [unrestricted free agency]. So that’s going to make this situation dicey for Jim Rutherford and the Pittsburgh Penguins.”

Corey Hirsch on Murray's playoff ability: “Pretty damn good, obviously,” Sportsnet analyst and ex-NHL goalie Corey Hirsch said. “He’s like Gerry Cheevers and Billy Smith. They were very average regular season goalies but when the Cup was on the line, you wanted one of those two guys in your net. His regular seasons have been very inconsistent.”

Boucher said opponents pick up on vulnerabilities and goalies must adapt. Murray’s glove remains an issue, though that’s common for bigger butterfly goalies. He’s not the smoothest while moving side to side. And when his confidence in himself or his teammates wanes, he tends to drift deeper into his crease.

“There’s been changes [to the NHL’s style of play] that haven’t exactly helped Matt Murray,” Hirsch said. “He’s got a pretty wide stance and the game’s become quicker and more lateral. So he might have to make some tweaks.”

“I don’t have any question that Matt Murray has the capability to win the big game. He’s proven it twice now,” Boucher said. “But I think he is a guy that needs to share the load during the regular season. [The regular season] is a whole different animal. It’s a big process to go through to get to [the playoffs].”

Contract value for Murray:

“If I was [his agent] a few months ago, I would have been screaming ‘Vasilevskiy’ as a comparable,” Lawton said. “You can say his numbers are better, his team is better. But you can also answer back that Matt has two Stanley Cups.”

“I’m all for goalies getting paid because I was one,” Hirsch said, chuckling. “But Matt Murray didn’t do himself any favors this year. He just didn’t. So you can’t give him that kind of money in my eyes. He’s going to have to back it up. He’s put himself in a position where he’s got to prove that he’s still what he was.”

Boucher, pointing to Murray’s injury history as one reason for the Penguins to be hesitant, wondered if they would even be willing to top $6 million a year. “In a perfect world, you’d keep Murray and Jarry as a great 1A-1B combination. I think that would be the best scenario going forward,” Boucher said. “But you just wonder if that’s something Matt Murray wants to do. ‘Do I want to get paid or do I want to be on a [contender] but I may share the workload?’”

The NHL is trending toward timeshares, anyway. Last season, only 10 goalies made 55 starts or more. Minnesota’s Devan Dubnyk led the league with 66.

Precedent has been set that if a goalie starts fewer than 41 games in a season, he is considered a backup. So Jarry, who turns 25 later this month, may be looking at a short-term deal between $2 million and $3 million in arbitration.

On trading Murray:

“If you have enough confidence in Tristan, you could probably get some pretty good players for Matt Murray. I think you can, anyway,” Hirsch said. “If you’re Buffalo, Murray is 25 years old. He’s got seven or eight pretty good years more in him. He’s a competitive guy. I would take a chance on that. Why not?”

“He’s really talented. I love the way he handles the puck,” Boucher said. “He seems to be a pretty calm kid, seems pretty business-like. He’s progressing along nicely. … It would be interesting to see if he was handed the keys to the car, could he be the guy that can carry them? I certainly think he has the ability.” He added: “My only question about him is handling the increased workload.”

“You could still have another season with these two guys together,” Hirsch said. “Eventually, one is going to have to go. That’s inevitable. But when is that?”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2020/04/13/pittsburgh-penguins-goalies-matt-murray-tristan-jarry-nhl-offseason-trade-rumors-jim-rutherford/stories/202004130060
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Daniel on Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:28 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Matt Vensel of the PG has a new article on the Murray/Jarry decision coming this summer. Included in the article is some feedback from former goalies/analysts Brian Boucher and Corey Hirsch, as well as former player/agent/GM Brian Lawton. I thought there was some really good info in this article, and takes from former goalies and current analysts. Some of the highlights, as well as a link to the full article below:

Skills wise:

Boucher on Murray taking a step forward after Fleury dealt: “If you’re asking if he took a step forward, I would say no, he did not,” said NBC Sports analyst Brian Boucher, the former Philadelphia Flyers goalie, last week.

Lawton on Murray: “I thought he would really run with things and be a goaltender that plays 60-plus games. That hasn’t happened yet. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen,” said NHL Network analyst Brian Lawton, the former NHL player, GM and agent. “He’s a year from [unrestricted free agency]. So that’s going to make this situation dicey for Jim Rutherford and the Pittsburgh Penguins.”

Corey Hirsch on Murray's playoff ability: “Pretty damn good, obviously,” Sportsnet analyst and ex-NHL goalie Corey Hirsch said. “He’s like Gerry Cheevers and Billy Smith. They were very average regular season goalies but when the Cup was on the line, you wanted one of those two guys in your net. His regular seasons have been very inconsistent.”

Boucher said opponents pick up on vulnerabilities and goalies must adapt. Murray’s glove remains an issue, though that’s common for bigger butterfly goalies. He’s not the smoothest while moving side to side. And when his confidence in himself or his teammates wanes, he tends to drift deeper into his crease.

“There’s been changes [to the NHL’s style of play] that haven’t exactly helped Matt Murray,” Hirsch said. “He’s got a pretty wide stance and the game’s become quicker and more lateral. So he might have to make some tweaks.”

“I don’t have any question that Matt Murray has the capability to win the big game. He’s proven it twice now,” Boucher said. “But I think he is a guy that needs to share the load during the regular season. [The regular season] is a whole different animal. It’s a big process to go through to get to [the playoffs].”

Contract value for Murray:

“If I was [his agent] a few months ago, I would have been screaming ‘Vasilevskiy’ as a comparable,” Lawton said. “You can say his numbers are better, his team is better. But you can also answer back that Matt has two Stanley Cups.”

“I’m all for goalies getting paid because I was one,” Hirsch said, chuckling. “But Matt Murray didn’t do himself any favors this year. He just didn’t. So you can’t give him that kind of money in my eyes. He’s going to have to back it up. He’s put himself in a position where he’s got to prove that he’s still what he was.”

Boucher, pointing to Murray’s injury history as one reason for the Penguins to be hesitant, wondered if they would even be willing to top $6 million a year. “In a perfect world, you’d keep Murray and Jarry as a great 1A-1B combination. I think that would be the best scenario going forward,” Boucher said. “But you just wonder if that’s something Matt Murray wants to do. ‘Do I want to get paid or do I want to be on a [contender] but I may share the workload?’”

The NHL is trending toward timeshares, anyway. Last season, only 10 goalies made 55 starts or more. Minnesota’s Devan Dubnyk led the league with 66.

Precedent has been set that if a goalie starts fewer than 41 games in a season, he is considered a backup. So Jarry, who turns 25 later this month, may be looking at a short-term deal between $2 million and $3 million in arbitration.

On trading Murray:

“If you have enough confidence in Tristan, you could probably get some pretty good players for Matt Murray. I think you can, anyway,” Hirsch said. “If you’re Buffalo, Murray is 25 years old. He’s got seven or eight pretty good years more in him. He’s a competitive guy. I would take a chance on that. Why not?”

“He’s really talented. I love the way he handles the puck,” Boucher said. “He seems to be a pretty calm kid, seems pretty business-like. He’s progressing along nicely. … It would be interesting to see if he was handed the keys to the car, could he be the guy that can carry them? I certainly think he has the ability.” He added: “My only question about him is handling the increased workload.”

“You could still have another season with these two guys together,” Hirsch said. “Eventually, one is going to have to go. That’s inevitable. But when is that?”

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2020/04/13/pittsburgh-penguins-goalies-matt-murray-tristan-jarry-nhl-offseason-trade-rumors-jim-rutherford/stories/202004130060


Losing his dad at a young age is probably a bigger effect on his on ice performance that we can imagine. I think he needs a change of scenery and Western Conference would be ideal, one trip to Pittsburgh. I think Edmonton would be a perfect fit and I would imagine they’d give up a 1st or 2nd for him, as a starting point. Just to drive Jim crazy, I’d want Jesse Puljujärvi as part of the return. :D
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Cow_Master66 on Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:06 pm

I've been in Murray's camp from the beginning, and honestly believe he will have a long and good (maybe great) career....But at this point, I think we've passed the statute of limitation on his Dad's passing. I do believe this had a tremendous impact on him, and far be it from me to minimize it, but I don't think it should be part of the conversation any more.

I have a feeling the bigger impact, at this stage, are the rumors around his practice habits.

I'm on his side and wish him much success (hopefully this year in Pittsburgh).
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:39 pm

I think there's a combination of a lot of things here with Murray.

--His dad's passing had an effect on him. Who am I to judge how long or the level, but, in general terms, if that's still an issue, that's a problem.
--Maybe he's just not a great first half/regular season goalie, like was referenced above Cheevers and Billy Smith
--The concern for me is, his numbers, both regular season and playoffs, have declined each year. They rebounded a little bit last season with a strong 2nd half, but in simple terms, his GAA and SV% have trended downward year over year.
--Also as stated above, the league is trending towards more towards goalie tandems. Usually not 50/50, but even 60/40 is significant compared to a true starter.

My bottom with Murray is, there may be other comparables out there, but, I'm not sure teams paying goalies 8M and above is very smart. You better be THE BEST, or top 5 year after year, and, I've seen several graphs and data showing that a lot of the higher paid goalies are continually getting outperformed by younger, cheaper goalies. I don't dislike Murray as a goalie, but, I don't want to pay him what he thinks he deserves. With Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel....plus guys like Marino and McCann and Rust needing new deals soon, I would not be interested in dumping 8M (even 6M) into Matt Murray.

Trade him and get a 1st and a good young player. There are other options at the position.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Ericf on Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:46 pm

I’m not sure where Matt Murray the playoff goalie is at this point either...I don’t believe that perspective about him anymore (that he’s a better playoff goalie than RS) and the numbers bear that out....his first year in 2016 when we won the Cup, yes...in 2017 he platooned with MAF and still was excellent...but since then, his playoff save % is about a .908 and he’s been outplayed by Holtby and Lehner in both of the last two playoff runs...
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Daniel on Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:46 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:I've been in Murray's camp from the beginning, and honestly believe he will have a long and good (maybe great) career....But at this point, I think we've passed the statute of limitation on his Dad's passing. I do believe this had a tremendous impact on him, and far be it from me to minimize it, but I don't think it should be part of the conversation any more.

I have a feeling the bigger impact, at this stage, are the rumors around his practice habits.

I'm on his side and wish him much success (hopefully this year in Pittsburgh).


I agree that it should be but who knows, he was what 22? when his dad died. How much time did he spend in Pittsburgh and how much does the city have an effect? I think if he's traded he'll have an amazing career, probably either HOF or in the conversation for it, I just don't think it can happen in Pittsburgh.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Daniel on Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:51 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I think there's a combination of a lot of things here with Murray.

--His dad's passing had an effect on him. Who am I to judge how long or the level, but, in general terms, if that's still an issue, that's a problem.
--Maybe he's just not a great first half/regular season goalie, like was referenced above Cheevers and Billy Smith
--The concern for me is, his numbers, both regular season and playoffs, have declined each year. They rebounded a little bit last season with a strong 2nd half, but in simple terms, his GAA and SV% have trended downward year over year.
--Also as stated above, the league is trending towards more towards goalie tandems. Usually not 50/50, but even 60/40 is significant compared to a true starter.

My bottom with Murray is, there may be other comparables out there, but, I'm not sure teams paying goalies 8M and above is very smart. You better be THE BEST, or top 5 year after year, and, I've seen several graphs and data showing that a lot of the higher paid goalies are continually getting outperformed by younger, cheaper goalies. I don't dislike Murray as a goalie, but, I don't want to pay him what he thinks he deserves. With Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel....plus guys like Marino and McCann and Rust needing new deals soon, I would not be interested in dumping 8M (even 6M) into Matt Murray.

Trade him and get a 1st and a good young player. There are other options at the position.


I think that's the bottom line. We can go back and forth on practice habits, dad's death, slow starter, etc. but I think it boils down to this. In terms of asset moving forward, I think Jarry has either caught or passed Murray, either way it's close. In terms of trade return, JR can sell Murray high based on age and playoff resume. Maybe not as high as 1-2 years ago, but he hasn't been so horrible that JR is selling at bottom of barrel prices. Jarry moving forward might be as good, but teams will be paying for potential with him whereas Murray has a track record.

Also, I think Murray would want double the salary as Jarry and isn't twice the goalie. When looking at trade return, salary cap value, on ice production combined, Jarry/DeSmith >>>>>>>> Murray/DeSmith. Presuming Jarry or Murray goes. Could sign Murray to a 1 year deal to get him to UFA, though not really wise for either party just pointing it out as an option.

Still like Murray to Edmonton for a 1st and prospect.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:13 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I think there's a combination of a lot of things here with Murray.

--His dad's passing had an effect on him. Who am I to judge how long or the level, but, in general terms, if that's still an issue, that's a problem.
--Maybe he's just not a great first half/regular season goalie, like was referenced above Cheevers and Billy Smith
--The concern for me is, his numbers, both regular season and playoffs, have declined each year. They rebounded a little bit last season with a strong 2nd half, but in simple terms, his GAA and SV% have trended downward year over year.
--Also as stated above, the league is trending towards more towards goalie tandems. Usually not 50/50, but even 60/40 is significant compared to a true starter.

My bottom with Murray is, there may be other comparables out there, but, I'm not sure teams paying goalies 8M and above is very smart. You better be THE BEST, or top 5 year after year, and, I've seen several graphs and data showing that a lot of the higher paid goalies are continually getting outperformed by younger, cheaper goalies. I don't dislike Murray as a goalie, but, I don't want to pay him what he thinks he deserves. With Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel....plus guys like Marino and McCann and Rust needing new deals soon, I would not be interested in dumping 8M (even 6M) into Matt Murray.

Trade him and get a 1st and a good young player. There are other options at the position.


I think that's the bottom line. We can go back and forth on practice habits, dad's death, slow starter, etc. but I think it boils down to this. In terms of asset moving forward, I think Jarry has either caught or passed Murray, either way it's close. In terms of trade return, JR can sell Murray high based on age and playoff resume. Maybe not as high as 1-2 years ago, but he hasn't been so horrible that JR is selling at bottom of barrel prices. Jarry moving forward might be as good, but teams will be paying for potential with him whereas Murray has a track record.

Also, I think Murray would want double the salary as Jarry and isn't twice the goalie. When looking at trade return, salary cap value, on ice production combined, Jarry/DeSmith >>>>>>>> Murray/DeSmith. Presuming Jarry or Murray goes. Could sign Murray to a 1 year deal to get him to UFA, though not really wise for either party just pointing it out as an option.

Still like Murray to Edmonton for a 1st and prospect.

Murray to Buffalo straight up for Sam Reinhart. Or Murray to Buffalo for Jake McCabe and a 1st/2nd.

I could care less about him going West to not face him. With other players, but goalies...these guys have practiced against Murray for years. They probably know Murray better than half the goalies in their own division. I'd want to play him as much as possible.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby largegarlic on Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:20 pm

I think in a way, the debate about whether Murray can bounce back to 2016-2017 levels doesn't matter that much. With the cap probably going down, and the other contracts the Pens have, there's just no good argument for paying him what you'd have to to keep him when you have what seems like a cheaper, younger, perfectly competent replacement in-house.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Daniel on Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:25 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I think there's a combination of a lot of things here with Murray.

--His dad's passing had an effect on him. Who am I to judge how long or the level, but, in general terms, if that's still an issue, that's a problem.
--Maybe he's just not a great first half/regular season goalie, like was referenced above Cheevers and Billy Smith
--The concern for me is, his numbers, both regular season and playoffs, have declined each year. They rebounded a little bit last season with a strong 2nd half, but in simple terms, his GAA and SV% have trended downward year over year.
--Also as stated above, the league is trending towards more towards goalie tandems. Usually not 50/50, but even 60/40 is significant compared to a true starter.

My bottom with Murray is, there may be other comparables out there, but, I'm not sure teams paying goalies 8M and above is very smart. You better be THE BEST, or top 5 year after year, and, I've seen several graphs and data showing that a lot of the higher paid goalies are continually getting outperformed by younger, cheaper goalies. I don't dislike Murray as a goalie, but, I don't want to pay him what he thinks he deserves. With Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel....plus guys like Marino and McCann and Rust needing new deals soon, I would not be interested in dumping 8M (even 6M) into Matt Murray.

Trade him and get a 1st and a good young player. There are other options at the position.


I think that's the bottom line. We can go back and forth on practice habits, dad's death, slow starter, etc. but I think it boils down to this. In terms of asset moving forward, I think Jarry has either caught or passed Murray, either way it's close. In terms of trade return, JR can sell Murray high based on age and playoff resume. Maybe not as high as 1-2 years ago, but he hasn't been so horrible that JR is selling at bottom of barrel prices. Jarry moving forward might be as good, but teams will be paying for potential with him whereas Murray has a track record.

Also, I think Murray would want double the salary as Jarry and isn't twice the goalie. When looking at trade return, salary cap value, on ice production combined, Jarry/DeSmith >>>>>>>> Murray/DeSmith. Presuming Jarry or Murray goes. Could sign Murray to a 1 year deal to get him to UFA, though not really wise for either party just pointing it out as an option.

Still like Murray to Edmonton for a 1st and prospect.

Murray to Buffalo straight up for Sam Reinhart. Or Murray to Buffalo for Jake McCabe and a 1st/2nd.

I could care less about him going West to not face him. With other players, but goalies...these guys have practiced against Murray for years. They probably know Murray better than half the goalies in their own division. I'd want to play him as much as possible.


I originally said western conference with the theme of bad memories in Pittsburgh and knowing JR is kinda about the player when making trades. Maybe not, just feeling I get.

Also think Edmonton might be willing to overpay since they've been looking for a goalie forever and really just a goalie away from being a real force in the west.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Skatingpen on Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:58 pm

Really think they could get a 1st for Murray?
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby 100565 on Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:20 pm

Getting rid of Kahun in the manner they did gave me concern they were afraid of Kahun's cap hit this summer. (I think Kahun gets at least $2.5mil - before the c word; obviously things have changed.). The thought came to mind that they moved Kahun for depth this season and cap space this summer to re-sign both Murray and Jarry. Unless the combined total cap for the two is less than $8mil (again, pre c word), I think it would be a mistake.

I think they need to gauge trade values of both of them. Evaluate cap room. Then make a decision.

I have a hard time with trade values for either player. Goalies are always hard to predict.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Cow_Master66 on Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:06 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Really think they could get a 1st for Murray?


I’d be shocked if they didn’t. Despite what he’s thought of by the yinzers, he has 2 cups and is young. The gamble alone that he finds his game is easily worth a first for a team. Remember it only takes one....
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Daniel on Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:10 am

Skatingpen wrote:Really think they could get a 1st for Murray?


I think it depends on two things. First, how good is the prospect? Top prospect 21-23 who can come to the NHL right away, no first round pick (ie John Marino), maybe 2nd. Prospect who has to spend time in WBS (ie Pierre-Olivier Joseph) and yeah 1st round pick. Also depends on lottery team vs playoff team, I wouldn't expect a lottery pick for him. If they get 1st round, I'd guess 12-20th pick. Team that has been looking for a top young goalie forever (Edmonton, Buffalo) compared to Detroit which seems to always have good goalies, up until recently.

Let's say Edmonton, Buffalo, Detroit want him, how can the Penguins not get 2-3 top assets?
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:44 am

100565 wrote:Getting rid of Kahun in the manner they did gave me concern they were afraid of Kahun's cap hit this summer. (I think Kahun gets at least $2.5mil - before the c word; obviously things have changed.). The thought came to mind that they moved Kahun for depth this season and cap space this summer to re-sign both Murray and Jarry. Unless the combined total cap for the two is less than $8mil (again, pre c word), I think it would be a mistake.

I think they need to gauge trade values of both of them. Evaluate cap room. Then make a decision.

I have a hard time with trade values for either player. Goalies are always hard to predict.

I think a big thing that scared the Penguins off with Kahun was aribitration. Kahun is in that range where, if he goes to arbitration versus working out a deal with the team, he could be awarded a salary higher than what the Penguins want to pay, but also low enough that the Penguins can't walk away from his award.

That puts them in a tight bind, and, if they had to move Kahun at that point, teams know the bind they are in and they probably wouldn't get much more than a late round pick.

There's probably some concern like that with McCann as well, but, I think they like his game more and are willing to take the risk. For whatever reason, I don't think they thought Kahun meshed as well as they thought he would.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby 100565 on Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:39 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
100565 wrote:Getting rid of Kahun in the manner they did gave me concern they were afraid of Kahun's cap hit this summer. (I think Kahun gets at least $2.5mil - before the c word; obviously things have changed.). The thought came to mind that they moved Kahun for depth this season and cap space this summer to re-sign both Murray and Jarry. Unless the combined total cap for the two is less than $8mil (again, pre c word), I think it would be a mistake.

I think they need to gauge trade values of both of them. Evaluate cap room. Then make a decision.

I have a hard time with trade values for either player. Goalies are always hard to predict.

I think a big thing that scared the Penguins off with Kahun was aribitration. Kahun is in that range where, if he goes to arbitration versus working out a deal with the team, he could be awarded a salary higher than what the Penguins want to pay, but also low enough that the Penguins can't walk away from his award.

That puts them in a tight bind, and, if they had to move Kahun at that point, teams know the bind they are in and they probably wouldn't get much more than a late round pick.

There's probably some concern like that with McCann as well, but, I think they like his game more and are willing to take the risk. For whatever reason, I don't think they thought Kahun meshed as well as they thought he would.

I agree. Arbitration eligibility was part of the fear. However, I think they could have afforded to re-signing everyone - even at higher cap hits...ie, McCann at $4.3 and Kahun at $3.25 - if they trade Murray and Bjugstad, and do not resign Schultz. It would have been tight and perhaps would need to start season with only 22 on the roster, but do-able. Now, I think both McCann and Kahun sign for less- neither had a great second half.

Regarding the Murray and Jarry debate, it is tough. It would have been nice to see one of them grab the reigns and make a cup run...let their play dictate who stays. Now it is more of a guessing game. I would trade Murray if I can get a good player that could help the team next year. I think (pre-c word) the Pens were trying to find a way to keep both - or like Bjugstad more than I or they want to take a shot at re-signing Schultz.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby jeffshly on Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:36 pm

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Pittsburgh has a pretty good goalie in Casey DeSmith who, at the very least, has proven to be a very solid NHL backup. I'm not sure on the implications involving the 2021 Expansion Draft, but both Murray and Jarry are RFA's this summer. Both can be retained with a qualifying offer. I'd propose giving them one more year to settle things out while both are relatively cheap. Whichever of the two looks to be the 2021-22 starter gets protected while the other is exposed to Seattle. DeSmith, or even Emil Larmi, becomes the backup in 2021-22.

This may be akin to kicking the can down the road, but that might just be what's needed to let this "who's the Pens #1" situation to bear out.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Ericf on Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:38 pm

Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Jim on Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:55 pm

Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year


Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Pruezy11881 on Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:54 pm

What Jim said...
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:53 pm

Jim wrote:
Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year


Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye.


This is the perfect opportunity to get a RHD to replace Letang. Not long ago Calgary offered Dougie Hamilton for Murray, I'd want something like that in a deal. That gives GMJR the ability to move Letang and reshape the D.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Hatrick on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:43 am

Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year

even if the cap would go up next year I would trade him if that's his ask, with the cap possibly staying more flat(or going down)… he will get an escort to the airport.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby stonewizard51 on Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:04 am

Jim wrote:
Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year


Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye.

Exactly

IMHO Murray plays a better game when he has a strong MAF type of goalie pushing him. While Jarry is good he isn't going to be the type of player that pushes Murray. I honestly feel Murray thinks he's a better player and doesn't need to work as hard to keep the #1 tag. However, I think both him and Jarry are fairly close so losing Murray would not be the end of the world. Murray is making 3.75 mil at the moment and I didn't see anything this year that would warrant him making anything more than what he's making now an even that's too much for his production so him thinking he's worth 6.4 mil plus is nothing more than an exit strategy.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:50 am

Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year

Image

Nope.
N.-OPE.
Nuh-uh.
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Re: Post-Gazette takes a look at looming Murray/Jarry decisi

Postby pens_CT on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:58 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
Ericf wrote:Matt Vensel was on the PG’s hockey podcast today saying that Murray wants more than what Gibson is getting, which is $6.4 mil per year


Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye.


This is the perfect opportunity to get a RHD to replace Letang. Not long ago Calgary offered Dougie Hamilton for Murray, I'd want something like that in a deal. That gives GMJR the ability to move Letang and reshape the D.


None of us know what the cap is going to look like next year, but it's safe to assume its not going up much, if at all. Unless they're moving a bigger salary out along with Murray, I don't see a big money guy like Hamilton or Sam Reinhart etc. coming back in a deal. Edmonton makes some sense, they need a goalie, supposedly they have some defensemen in the pipeline (the reason we got Marino) that would be inexpensive and improve the blue line on this team. Maybe Edmonton throws in a pick (not a 1st) into the deal as well.
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