Let’s not beat around the bush

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Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Skatingpen on Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:46 pm

We all have opinions about this team. Early on with all the injuries we were happy they were competing and playing hard. As they got players back we all see the lack of a cohesive play from everyone. This is a team with talent but no team cohesion and is there any thought they will get it? I love this team but something major is wrong. They are too small, not fast enough and their blue line is just not up to par. Can it be fixed? Maybe but nothing shows it will be. Is it GMJRs fault or the lack of draft picks? Has Sullivan worn out his welcome? Or is it simply the players not playing up to the standard? I don’t know but I can say, I am upset for sure
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Weegie on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:19 pm

I just can't figure it out, they went from a team that was on fire 4-6 weeks ago to a team that just can't get it together, they are getting chances at times but they just are struggling and it's not easy for anyone to put their finger on why. When Dumo and Marino came back it was two quick wins and we all thought "that's what they needed, we're back", then to lose to the Caps yesterday took some wind out of the sails but today just deflated the whole thing, how they lose to teams with lesser records than them quite regularly is a mystery and disturbing.

I don't understand it, don't know what the answer is or the reasoning behind it but they just look like a middle of the pack team right now and to quote Mickey from Rocky "you're a helluva lot better than that, a HELLUVA lot...."

This is very odd.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Durbano on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:27 pm

Always two teams out there but for the most part, since they beat Toronto on Feb. 18, they've simply been outworked. Not every period of every game, of course, but too often they seem as if they're just going through the motions.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:43 pm

They needed to completely revamp the blue line last offseason or at least start to. I was expecting both Letang and Johnson to be gone. I hope that is the case this summer.

This team needs a reboot, they blamed it on Kessel but we are still seeing the same lack of focus and lack of attention to detail.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby nastystang05 on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:59 pm

Ever since we got Crosby and Malkin both back they stopped playing the system. The system was working very well. Now with both back there is no urgency or desire. Just frustration. You can see it in all the players faces. Absolutely in no way shape or form am I implying we should get rid one or both of those two. But they all need to have a sit down closed door meeting where they all agree to play the system and not try and take over the games on talent. While that may have worked five or ten years ago, it's not right now.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby alancac98 on Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:59 pm

If the Pens fail to make the playoff or are 4 and out last year, several moves need to be made. Recchi needs gone as his power play unit sucks ass! Sullivan may need to go as well, as he could have lost the locker room or at least the ears of several players. This brings me to the players, Letang needs gone. He is a detriment to this defence and always has been! Malkin may need moved as well in order to try and get some decent pieces back. Guys don't seem to be buying what Sullivan is saying. That is a coaching and player problem. Sullivan should bench his stars when they continue to play like ****. Both Malkin and Letang are playing like ****, as well as other, but they also don't seem to playing the system either. We had lots of success throughout December and January playing guys from the hal. They came up with something to prove. A player who feels his job and position are safe don't often strive to become better - they already think they are great! As of next game, Letang should be no higher than the 3rd pairing and limited to no more than 12 minutes a game. Our d stepped up and played very well without him, as did the team. Malkin might need to be placed on the 3rd line
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:05 am

nastystang05 wrote:Ever since we got Crosby and Malkin both back they stopped playing the system.

That's all you needed to say right there.

It's the core, and nothing but the core. It's Crosby, Malkin, and Letang that are killing this team right now.

Dejan wrote an excellent piece tonight on this team, and in that piece:

---he pointed a huge finger at the big 3.
---he pointed out that the Penguins had a small closed door meeting before the media was let in, and, by the time the media was let in, Letang was nowhere to be found. Dejan has pointed out that this is a common occurrence for Letang, who is one of 3 "captains". Malkin was also not available.
---Only Crosby was available, and Dejan called him out for BS response about the game, where Crosby tried to downplay it as one period, some missed PPs and the puck going the other way.
---Dejan point blank asked Sullivan, on video (and you can see Sullivan smile as he asks), if a bunch of AHL callups in November/December can play your north-south system, why can't this team do play that way today?

Good read if you have the access: https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2020/03/08/penguins-hurricanes-shut-up-dk/
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:42 am

I agree. I know the points are here but I haven’t seen Crosby this out of it since the weeks before Sullivan was hired. He hasn’t been the same 80% of the time since coming back from injury. Hard to nick pick him or critique a guy that’s done so much for the organization and us, the fans. It does appear when he’s not scoring he’s not leading. It’s strange. He’ll get a point or two and has a goal in a game but outside of those plays he just seems off.

Malkin on the other hand is an emotionally driven player that gets caught up, frustrated and loses focus. Sometimes he goes beast mode and and angry Geno can be good, but right now it’s frustration and lack of focus. He needs to help lead the way with relentless effort, playing the system and not losing his cool or focus.

Letang is the most swaggy arrogant player we have. He throws the puck away and makes bad decisions and still plays like he thinks he’s Bobby Orr. Now when that goes right for him, he’s amazing but the bad right now far outweighs the good. He needs to humble himself and show he’s responsible and take ownership for being part of the issue. The team, and doing the right things need to be bigger then himself

During our cup runs and cup wins and the first 3 years after Sullivan was hired the team montra was “ just play”. Sullivan said it maybe 50 times a seaons. “We just play”. No matter the situation, the score, the circumstances, we “just play”.

This and “ be hard to play against”. Both of these attitudes where in full force 5 weeks ago, and for some reason it has been lost.

Part of the problem is the core wasn’t around during the success this year. They seem to be the ones that don’t believe, having not been on the ice or part of this years success. Now that the core have taken ice time and taken back the reigns, the others that worked so hard to do well in their absence can’t help but be frustrated that when others come back, they aren’t following suit. Our stars need to take back the torch from our soldiers and do it for them. They had their backs. Not the other way around this time.
Last edited by BlackNGold4Life on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Penguins Knight on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:06 am

thehockeyguru wrote:They needed to completely revamp the blue line last offseason or at least start to. I was expecting both Letang and Johnson to be gone. I hope that is the case this summer.

This team needs a reboot, they blamed it on Kessel but we are still seeing the same lack of focus and lack of attention to detail.


Improving the defense remains unchecked from last last offseason through the trade deadline.

The team had similar issues when they had Kessel.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Daniel on Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:55 am

FLPensFan wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:Ever since we got Crosby and Malkin both back they stopped playing the system.

That's all you needed to say right there.

It's the core, and nothing but the core. It's Crosby, Malkin, and Letang that are killing this team right now.

Dejan wrote an excellent piece tonight on this team, and in that piece:

---he pointed a huge finger at the big 3.
---he pointed out that the Penguins had a small closed door meeting before the media was let in, and, by the time the media was let in, Letang was nowhere to be found. Dejan has pointed out that this is a common occurrence for Letang, who is one of 3 "captains". Malkin was also not available.
---Only Crosby was available, and Dejan called him out for BS response about the game, where Crosby tried to downplay it as one period, some missed PPs and the puck going the other way.
---Dejan point blank asked Sullivan, on video (and you can see Sullivan smile as he asks), if a bunch of AHL callups in November/December can play your north-south system, why can't this team do play that way today?

Good read if you have the access: https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2020/03/08/penguins-hurricanes-shut-up-dk/


If he's smiling, implying it's true, why does he limit the ice time of those players? JR changed 1/4 of the forwards and might not have had to do it if Sullivan wasn't playing the AHL callups 3-4 minutes a game.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby interstorm on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:20 am

Why wouldn't he bench the big 3?

Do you think a coach that benches Crosby keeps the locker room?
Do you think a coach that loses the locker room keeps his job?

Not an easy position and coaching mega-stars comes with its own challenges. These guys aren't fighting for a roster spot, they're (probably) softer given the millions they've made and their legacy is already secured. Not saying they are a liability by any means but Sullivan (or Bylsma or whomever comes next) doesn't have it easy just because there are some first ballot HOF players on the team.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Ericf on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:55 am

There’s a power struggle going on and when things don’t go as planned, the core is giving up. That’s what you saw this weekend. They stopped playing when the other team took a lead. Let Sullivan and Sid-G-Letang work it out. This is typical stuff with these players. They’re not going to miss the playoffs, but they probably recognize what the rest of us do: this team wasn’t going to compete with Boston, Tampa etc anyway. Also, there might not be any playoffs with the coronavirus. Why kill yourself.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby the riddler on Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:28 am

McCann 0 goals in 21 games
Tanev 1 goal in 22 games
Blueger 1 goal in 14 games
Bjugstad 2 points in 13 games this year
Johnson & Letang -10 since the start of February
Schultz -9 since the all star break
Rust has cooled off since the all star break

Jarry 4-4 .897 sv pct. since all star game
Murray 4-5-1 .894 sv pct since all star game

A lot of players have come back down to earth after over performing early in the year. But secondary scoring has been non existent for the Penguins over the last 20 games. Can't rely on two guys to score all of the goals and generate all of the offense. Obviously looking at the goalies stats since the all star break, they haven't played the same kind of team defense they played leading up to the break. Can't pinpoint one thing as the culprit but they seem to lack any offensive chemistry + defensive structure. Sullivan was a lock to be the Jack Adams a month ago, now people want to fire him. No criticism as usual for GMJR, he's gotten a free pass the last 3 years. None of the deadline moves he's made have seemed to ignite this team.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby stonewizard51 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:36 am

Ericf wrote:There’s a power struggle going on and when things don’t go as planned, the core is giving up. That’s what you saw this weekend. They stopped playing when the other team took a lead. Let Sullivan and Sid-G-Letang work it out. This is typical stuff with these players. They’re not going to miss the playoffs, but they probably recognize what the rest of us do: this team wasn’t going to compete with Boston, Tampa etc anyway. Also, there might not be any playoffs with the coronavirus. Why kill yourself.

Until they get things worked out this team, as it is right now, should not have a path to the playoffs. Yeah they'll make it but my feeling is they'll simply get their collective a**es handed to them if they continue playing this asinine game style.

IMHO, and like many here, I feel Leturnover and JJ need to be hasta la bye bye this year. I've never been a JJ fan, and while he's had his moments, he's NEVER lived up to the billing JR gave when JJ was signed. Good gawd we still have 3 years left of him. Someone somewhere has to feel Letang is worth something and willing to make a deal for him. If he's a cancer get rid of him. Kessel was viewed as a cancer and was essentially traded for a bag of pucks with Galchenyuk being the absolute worst part of the deal. Until POJ makes his way to the NHL he's still a toss up.

If there is an ego problem they need to leave it at the door and go play like the team they are capable of being. If they don't they're setting themselves up for another epic failure in the playoffs.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby johnnews on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:00 am

After the first goal on Saturday, Letang deserved a seat on the bench. Which he doubled down on for the fifth. To me, that's the shake up this club needs in the off-season. Adios, Kristopher.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby KG on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:23 am

the riddler wrote:McCann 0 goals in 21 games
Tanev 1 goal in 22 games
Blueger 1 goal in 14 games
Bjugstad 2 points in 13 games this year
Johnson & Letang -10 since the start of February
Schultz -9 since the all star break
Rust has cooled off since the all star break

Jarry 4-4 .897 sv pct. since all star game
Murray 4-5-1 .894 sv pct since all star game

A lot of players have come back down to earth after over performing early in the year. But secondary scoring has been non existent for the Penguins over the last 20 games. Can't rely on two guys to score all of the goals and generate all of the offense. Obviously looking at the goalies stats since the all star break, they haven't played the same kind of team defense they played leading up to the break. Can't pinpoint one thing as the culprit but they seem to lack any offensive chemistry + defensive structure. Sullivan was a lock to be the Jack Adams a month ago, now people want to fire him. No criticism as usual for GMJR, he's gotten a free pass the last 3 years. None of the deadline moves he's made have seemed to ignite this team.


Amazing how the entire team has gone into the tank. They caught Washington for 1st place then forgot how to play as a team and win apparently. Nobody looks good at the moment. Very wild. Even the depth players aren't really doing anything. Even a big hit by Tanev could spark this group. Right now they look disinterested and don't have the fire in the belly to win tough games.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:32 am

Yes I mean this in jest (a little), but the team has been garbage since ZAR got injured. While we all know that isn't THE reason we've become terrible, we do know that the actual reason is Riikola who needs to be benched even more. Maybe Sully can double bench Riikola. Like not even let him into the rink. That should fix things.

We all said it over and over earlier in the season. The team got energy from the young guys. The Bleuger line was fire, the AHL guys played like they didn't want to go back down. At the time, I and others, wondered, would the team still play like desperate youth when the "stars" all returned? The question has been answered.

Canes have one player over the age of 31 (Pens have 6). Williams. And only one other non-goalie over 30, Staal. Isles killed us with youth and tenacity. Here are the ages of the Canes top 7 scorers in order: 22, 25, 19, 26(inj), 25, 21, 23.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Jim on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:35 am

the riddler wrote:McCann 0 goals in 21 games
Tanev 1 goal in 22 games
Blueger 1 goal in 14 games
Bjugstad 2 points in 13 games this year
Johnson & Letang -10 since the start of February
Schultz -9 since the all star break
Rust has cooled off since the all star break

Jarry 4-4 .897 sv pct. since all star game
Murray 4-5-1 .894 sv pct since all star game

A lot of players have come back down to earth after over performing early in the year. But secondary scoring has been non existent for the Penguins over the last 20 games. Can't rely on two guys to score all of the goals and generate all of the offense. Obviously looking at the goalies stats since the all star break, they haven't played the same kind of team defense they played leading up to the break. Can't pinpoint one thing as the culprit but they seem to lack any offensive chemistry + defensive structure. Sullivan was a lock to be the Jack Adams a month ago, now people want to fire him. No criticism as usual for GMJR, he's gotten a free pass the last 3 years. None of the deadline moves he's made have seemed to ignite this team.


Since the Zucker trade:
Pens 5-8-1
Wild 9-4-1

:pop:
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:54 am

Jim wrote:
the riddler wrote:McCann 0 goals in 21 games
Tanev 1 goal in 22 games
Blueger 1 goal in 14 games
Bjugstad 2 points in 13 games this year
Johnson & Letang -10 since the start of February
Schultz -9 since the all star break
Rust has cooled off since the all star break

Jarry 4-4 .897 sv pct. since all star game
Murray 4-5-1 .894 sv pct since all star game

A lot of players have come back down to earth after over performing early in the year. But secondary scoring has been non existent for the Penguins over the last 20 games. Can't rely on two guys to score all of the goals and generate all of the offense. Obviously looking at the goalies stats since the all star break, they haven't played the same kind of team defense they played leading up to the break. Can't pinpoint one thing as the culprit but they seem to lack any offensive chemistry + defensive structure. Sullivan was a lock to be the Jack Adams a month ago, now people want to fire him. No criticism as usual for GMJR, he's gotten a free pass the last 3 years. None of the deadline moves he's made have seemed to ignite this team.


Since the Zucker trade:
Pens 5-8-1
Wild 9-4-1

:pop:


For all the talk of being a 4 line team it hasn't materialized with everyone healthy. Those goal totals for the bottom 6 is staggering given how much they are paying those guys.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby theblackarts on Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:00 am

Jim wrote:
the riddler wrote:McCann 0 goals in 21 games
Tanev 1 goal in 22 games
Blueger 1 goal in 14 games
Bjugstad 2 points in 13 games this year
Johnson & Letang -10 since the start of February
Schultz -9 since the all star break
Rust has cooled off since the all star break

Jarry 4-4 .897 sv pct. since all star game
Murray 4-5-1 .894 sv pct since all star game

A lot of players have come back down to earth after over performing early in the year. But secondary scoring has been non existent for the Penguins over the last 20 games. Can't rely on two guys to score all of the goals and generate all of the offense. Obviously looking at the goalies stats since the all star break, they haven't played the same kind of team defense they played leading up to the break. Can't pinpoint one thing as the culprit but they seem to lack any offensive chemistry + defensive structure. Sullivan was a lock to be the Jack Adams a month ago, now people want to fire him. No criticism as usual for GMJR, he's gotten a free pass the last 3 years. None of the deadline moves he's made have seemed to ignite this team.


Since the Zucker trade:
Pens 5-8-1
Wild 9-4-1

:pop:


Our D has been horrible since losing Calen Addison.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby penny lane on Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:04 am

Take a player from WBS scoring goals see what they do with the pens.
This team's blood and oxygen is offense, goals.

It all starts with confidence that a goalie will be able to make a save. Pick one Coach, and play him as the #1.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Daniel on Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Yes I mean this in jest (a little), but the team has been garbage since ZAR got injured. While we all know that isn't THE reason we've become terrible, we do know that the actual reason is Riikola who needs to be benched even more. Maybe Sully can double bench Riikola. Like not even let him into the rink. That should fix things.

We all said it over and over earlier in the season. The team got energy from the young guys. The Bleuger line was fire, the AHL guys played like they didn't want to go back down. At the time, I and others, wondered, would the team still play like desperate youth when the "stars" all returned? The question has been answered.

Canes have one player over the age of 31 (Pens have 6). Williams. And only one other non-goalie over 30, Staal. Isles killed us with youth and tenacity. Here are the ages of the Canes top 7 scorers in order: 22, 25, 19, 26(inj), 25, 21, 23.


I don’t think it’s the sole reason, but I think it’s a pretty big one. I think defensive play is contagious. Him and Blueger and Tanev bang people and create momentum and I think the rest of the team fed off that. Not that they can’t get it back with ZAR gone, but who does Rodrigues hit?
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby dark_forces on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:17 pm

This team is starting to look eerily similar to the one that got swept by the Isles last spring. If things don't change, that's what we're in for again.
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby Antonio on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:40 pm

Hell there is absolutely no guarantee they make the playoffs currently. 96 points is probably about what they need and that requires going 7-7 which at this point is a tall order.

At what point do they finally fire the guy behind the bench?
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Re: Let’s not beat around the bush

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:10 pm

Antonio wrote:Hell there is absolutely no guarantee they make the playoffs currently. 96 points is probably about what they need and that requires going 7-7 which at this point is a tall order.

At what point do they finally fire the guy behind the bench?

I've had my issues at times with Sullivan. His lineup decisions, line choices, etc have frustrated me. But, why fire the guy when he obviously is not the issue here at all????

This team soared under Sullivan with a bunch of replacement level players. Rutherford loves Sullivan as much as Shero hitched his horse to Bylsma. Shero was actually asked to sack Bylsma at one point and refused, which ultimately cost him his job. I haven't heard any inkling of what management thinks of Sullivan, but, I have a feeling it is still in line with Rutherford.

Depending on how the rest of this season plays out, my thinking may drastically change to one that sees the window closed, and the team needing to start selling off Malkin and Letang. We've a seen a glimpse this season of what this team can do without it's "superstar core." I'm at the point that, if there are problems here, it's the core being selfish and stubborn and wanting to do things their way, then a coach who can't coach. We've changed a ton of the outside pieces.......Zucker, Tanev, Blueger, Bjugstad, McCann, Pettersson, Marino....all new shiny pieces.

People don't want to entertain the thought superstars can have egos and may not always have the teams best interest at heart. I'm really starting to get feelings like this around Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.....and they differ a little for each. Let us not forget our own superstar owner may have had a few coaches fired or guys traded because he didn't like something about them.
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