Salary Cap Next Season

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Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:00 pm

NHL Announces 2020-21 Salary Cap Projection

March 4, 2020 at 9:43 am CDT | by Gavin Lee —Leave a Comment


At the GM meetings today, the league gave teams an early projection on the 2020-21 salary cap figures. Bill Daly explained that the cap ceiling is projected to land somewhere between $84MM and $88.2MM for next season, with the final number still to be negotiated with the NHLPA.


If it trends toward the $88.2M I would assume we would keep both Murray and Jarry.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Jim on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:09 pm

One BIIIILLLLLION dollars...
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:19 pm

Keep Murray and Jarry til Seattle starts selecting players.....
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Jim on Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:50 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Keep Murray and Jarry til Seattle starts selecting players.....


I wonder how hard Murray will push for a NMC though.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:05 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Keep Murray and Jarry til Seattle starts selecting players.....


I wonder how hard Murray will push for a NMC though.


That'll determine who stays and goes. I just cant see Rutherford paying Murray big money and big term. I said that about Petterssen too.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby stonewizard51 on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:14 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Keep Murray and Jarry til Seattle starts selecting players.....


I wonder how hard Murray will push for a NMC though.


That'll determine who stays and goes. I just cant see Rutherford paying Murray big money and big term. I said that about Petterssen too.

IMHO you know Murray is going to be asking for 6 mil at least. Not sure he's worth that. If he wants a NMC he'll be gone.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:44 pm

The Pens currently have $69.350 committed to next year’s roster of 17...

Zucker (5.5) Crosby (8.7) Simon ?
Guentzel (6.0) Malkin (9.5) Rust (3.5)
McCann ? Bjugstad (4.1) Hornqvist (5.3)
Aston-Reese (1.0) Blueger (.75) Tanev (3.5)
Lafferty ? Rodrigues ?

Dumoulin (4.1) Letang (7.25)
Pettersson (4.025) Marino (.925)
Johnson (3.25) Ruhwedel (.75)
Riikola ?

Murray/Jarry ?
Desmith (1.25)
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:50 pm

Steve Dave wrote:The Pens currently have $69.350 committed to next year’s roster of 17...

Zucker (5.5) Crosby (8.7) Simon ?
Guentzel (6.0) Malkin (9.5) Rust (3.5)
McCann ? Bjugstad (4.1) Hornqvist (5.3)
Aston-Reese (1.0) Blueger (.75) Tanev (3.5)
Lafferty ? Rodrigues ?

Dumoulin (4.1) Letang (7.25)
Pettersson (4.025) Marino (.925)
Johnson (3.25) Ruhwedel (.75)
Riikola ?

Murray/Jarry ?
Desmith (1.25)


Rodrigues hasn't shown me much. The Pens would have been better off coughing up a 4th for Sheary and keeping Kahun.

No idea what McCann makes but I'm hoping for 3M for 2 or 3 years.

Simon would be nice at 2M for another season.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Jim on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:22 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:The Pens would have been better off ... keeping Kahun.


Edited out and just kept the important part.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:31 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:The Pens would have been better off ... keeping Kahun.


Edited out and just kept the important part.


Lol. You wouldnt like adding Sheary for a 4th?
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:04 pm

stonewizard51 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Keep Murray and Jarry til Seattle starts selecting players.....


I wonder how hard Murray will push for a NMC though.


That'll determine who stays and goes. I just cant see Rutherford paying Murray big money and big term. I said that about Petterssen too.

IMHO you know Murray is going to be asking for 6 mil at least. Not sure he's worth that. If he wants a NMC he'll be gone.

There's a few things here that to me are very telling. The first is, GMJR's decision NOT to negotiate in season with Murray. Your 25 year old goalie who won you two Cups....and you are going to delay or not even start initial dialogue with the agent? That is very suspect to me. You lock up an Olli Maatta several years ago as a young player.....you lock up Pettersson this year as a young player...you kick the can down the road a bit more on Murray tells me that maybe the rumors about his high asking price are true.

The second is, I just don't see a Murray/Jarry tandem working beyond this year. Jarry has upped his play. The Penguins were a bit down on him last year, thinking he had plateaued a bit and reportedly not being a great practice goalie. Jarry seems to have put all of that behind him this season. I don't think he'll return to the level he was at earlier this season, at least not as his normal level of play, but Jarry has reached a point that he is starter material.

The third is, there isn't a ton of variance in goaltending. Maybe that's not the best way to put it, but, looking at some of the recent goalie "advanced stats," the goalies the national media labels as the top 10 really aren't performing at that level. It's lesser known guys coming up with the elite level numbers. If you think there isn't much drop off from GoalieA to GoalieB, and you can sign GoalieB for 3-5M less AAV than GoalieA....seems like a no brainer.

I think the only way Murray stays beyond this season is if the goalie trade market is crap again this summer. Otherwise, move him, use the cap space saved to sure up the bottom pairing defense.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:41 am

NB has to go, I think you keep 19 and 18 if you can get both for 6M and under. We need about 3-4 M for bottom paring D and a 4th line center. Keep one of CR or JR for 7th D man and hope someone else emerges.

Could get a 3/4th line Center in the likes of Colin Smith, or Eric H
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby Jim on Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:54 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:The Pens would have been better off ... keeping Kahun.


Edited out and just kept the important part.


Lol. You wouldnt like adding Sheary for a 4th?


I didn't want to jumble it or muddle the main point.

However, a depth addition for a 4th is fine.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:03 am

Let’s say very little moves are made: Here is what I could see.

Zucker (5.5) Crosby (8.7) Simon (2.0)
Guentzel (6.0) Malkin (9.5) Rust (3.5)
McCann (3.5) FA (4.0) Hornqvist (5.3)
Aston-Reese (1.0) Blueger (.75) Tanev (3.5)
Lafferty( .75)

Dumoulin (4.1) Letang (7.25)
Pettersson (4.025) Marino (.925)
Johnson (3.25) FA (3.0)
Riikola (.75)

Jarry (4.0)
FA (3.0)
Desmith (1.25)

That leaves us with 5+M in cap space still if cap is at 85-86M and a solid deep team. What id like to see is:

Zucker (5.5) Crosby (8.7) FA 5M
Guentzel (6.0) Malkin (9.5) Rust (3.5)
McCann (4.0) FA (3.0) Hornqvist (5.3)
Aston-Reese (1.0) Blueger (.75) Tanev (3.5)
Lafferty (.75)

Dumoulin (4.1) Letang (7.25)
Pettersson (4.025) Marino (.925)
Veteran FA (2.0)
Riikola (.75)
Rookie (POJ) or veteran at (1.0-.75)

Murray (5.0) or Jarry at 4.0 (prefer Jary)
Desmith (1.25)
Veteran at (1.0-2.0)
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:10 am

Don't get too enamored with that high number. My understanding is that would take the NHL hitting its high revenue mark AND the NHLPA agreeing to use their escalator clause. Not likely to happen. In fact, the Athletic had a piece questioning if even the low end of 84M was 100% certain. Players are getting killed by taxes AND escrow. Players are putting 14% of their paycheck into escrow this year, and most years, they 4% or less of that money back. In 2015-2016 season, players put in 17% of their paycheck into escrow, and got only 3.3% back....so they lost

You are a 5M AAV player.
---> Escrow is 17% of your salary. That means 850K of your salary is withheld off the top, until the league ensures that the revenue targets hit what they are supposed to, and that the player is getting paid the correct % of hockey related revenue.
---> The NHL says nope, we didn't hit our numbers, you only get 165K back of that 850K you gave us up front.
---> Then add in you play for Montreal or Toronto, where you are taxed at over 50% tax rate.

NHL salary cap system is royally broken and parity isn't real. Nobody wants to play in Canada because their taxes are almost 20% higher than all the US cities. The league's system is costing players millions. I can't see a way to avoid another lockout without major compromise and creative solutions by the owners.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby longtimefan on Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:25 am

FLPensFan wrote:Don't get too enamored with that high number. My understanding is that would take the NHL hitting its high revenue mark AND the NHLPA agreeing to use their escalator clause. Not likely to happen. In fact, the Athletic had a piece questioning if even the low end of 84M was 100% certain. Players are getting killed by taxes AND escrow. Players are putting 14% of their paycheck into escrow this year, and most years, they 4% or less of that money back. In 2015-2016 season, players put in 17% of their paycheck into escrow, and got only 3.3% back....so they lost

You are a 5M AAV player.
---> Escrow is 17% of your salary. That means 850K of your salary is withheld off the top, until the league ensures that the revenue targets hit what they are supposed to, and that the player is getting paid the correct % of hockey related revenue.
---> The NHL says nope, we didn't hit our numbers, you only get 165K back of that 850K you gave us up front.
---> Then add in you play for Montreal or Toronto, where you are taxed at over 50% tax rate.

NHL salary cap system is royally broken and parity isn't real. Nobody wants to play in Canada because their taxes are almost 20% higher than all the US cities. The league's system is costing players millions. I can't see a way to avoid another lockout without major compromise and creative solutions by the owners.


I just read Mirtle's article, including the entire comments section. It's hard for me to put this on the owners. The cap is artificially created by the players using the inflator over the years. Revenue is split 50/50. At the end of the day, that's the split that was agreed to. Escrow is just a way to insure that the owners receive their full 50%. The players frivolously used the inflator to ensure a higher cap, and to allow more room for their raises year to year. It's hard for them to turn it off after they've received their raises because they would be telling players who voted to allow it to ensure their higher salaries that they are not entitled to their own when the time comes. To me, that's on the players. The purpose of the escrow is to ensure the 50/50 split is adhered to. As I understand it, the real expected revenue number is the midpoint between the cap and the floor. As time goes on, very few teams spend less than the midpoint, which means that the end result is a lower dollar amount for the players. But it's still 50%.

For all the screaming, the NHLPA chose not to re-open negotiations, ensuring the contract runs through 2021-22. Escrow can't be laid at the feet of the owners. The negotiations from the players side should be to increase the pie by adding to what's defined as hockey related revenue. For instance, the expansion entrance fee is not included. I'm not sure what good that does the players moving forward, as I wouldn't expect additional expansion for a number of years. But it's increasing the pie that would benefit the players. Escrow or not, the split is to be 50/50. The model is skewed by the players consistently using the inflator.

In terms of the higher tax rates in Canada, I'm not sure how that can be addressed. The NHL had issues back in the '80's with players avoiding Canada's higher taxes. Those problems were less severe when the Canadian dollar got stronger, but is becoming a problem again as it weakens. But isn't that true in all businesses? Nick Bonino signed with Nashville partly because they have no state income tax. That's also true in Florida and Texas I believe. How can the league possibly account for those variables. Parity can never be absolute with so many variables involving taxes. The NHL model is complicated because of the seven Canadian markets, far more than any other sport. To me, that problem would seem to be how the revenues are shared among the different markets. But that's more of an owner vs owner negotiation. When all is said and done, the split is to be 50/50 with the players. As I said above, increasing the pie in terms of HRR should be more of the players focus than escrow. at least that's my take on it.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby stonewizard51 on Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:33 am

BlackNGold4Life wrote:NB has to go, I think you keep 19 and 18 if you can get both for 6M and under. We need about 3-4 M for bottom paring D and a 4th line center. Keep one of CR or JR for 7th D man and hope someone else emerges.

Could get a 3/4th line Center in the likes of Colin Smith, or Eric H

Riikola is RFA this year. IMHO and, considering how he has been used this year, no way do I see him re-signing with the Pens. Unless JR trades away the negotiating rights for him my guess is he returns to the Finish Elite League.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:06 pm

If the season or playoffs is shortened there goes the increase in the salary cap. It may even go down.Yikes.!
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:29 am

sjnhiils wrote:If the season or playoffs is shortened there goes the increase in the salary cap. It may even go down.Yikes.!

It will be a mess, to be sure. There's almost no way it could really go down. The NHL could have to put in some type of compliance or leveler. At worst, I think the cap stays flat. If you drop the cap number, well, there were already a good 50% of teams that had to use LTIR to stay under the cap....dropping the number, there would be a run on buyouts and things would get messy.

Even if the revenue isn't there to support another 81.5M cap, the NHL will have to put something in place.
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby ville5 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:41 am

But in the longer term, substantial revenue lost would have a direct impact on next season’s salary cap. There is a provision in the Collective Bargaining Agreement that any money owed to the owners by players in excess of what was collected in this season’s escrow account comes directly off what is owed to the players next season - thus reducing the salary cap.

https://www.tsn.ca/a-look-at-how-the-co ... -1.1456018
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Re: Salary Cap Next Season

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:55 am

ville5 wrote:But in the longer term, substantial revenue lost would have a direct impact on next season’s salary cap. There is a provision in the Collective Bargaining Agreement that any money owed to the owners by players in excess of what was collected in this season’s escrow account comes directly off what is owed to the players next season - thus reducing the salary cap.

https://www.tsn.ca/a-look-at-how-the-co ... -1.1456018

Yeah, it's going to be a mess for sure.
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