Bobby Mac reporting trade

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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby pens_CT on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Daniel wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:Need to win in the next 2-3 years while crosby and malkin are elite. Zucker helps us do that, a late 1st this year and Addison do not.


I don't think Zucker does though. I don't think the Penguins go any further with Zucker than without him.


Well if this team continues to play they way it has since coming back from the break they're going nowhere even if they had Guentzel in the lineup. Need to get back to the forwards playing defense.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby Pitts on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:18 pm

Wyopen wrote:
ville5 wrote:WTseriousF?? Zucker isn't worth a 1st.



Nor Addison, but especially not both. Now the cupboard becomes more bare.

Pens are in win now mode. Cupboard be damned.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:20 pm

pens_CT wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
ville5 wrote:WTseriousF?? Zucker isn't worth a 1st.


You’re getting 3 years of a guy that scored 22, 33, 21 goals, and is on pace for 25 this year. He did it on a pretty crumby team too.

Some teams give up a 1st and a prospect for a deadline rental. Heck Ryan Hartman went for a 1st at the deadline.

I’m not saying I love the deal, just putting it into perspective. Term costs a bit more.


Crummy


Thanks! Now I know.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:21 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:Need to win in the next 2-3 years while crosby and malkin are elite. Zucker helps us do that, a late 1st this year and Addison do not.


I don't think Zucker does though. I don't think the Penguins go any further with Zucker than without him.


Well if this team continues to play they way it has since coming back from the break they're going nowhere even if they had Guentzel in the lineup. Need to get back to the forwards playing defense.


Or not having your D pinch when there is no forward help.

I just dont see how this team is better in the long term. Murray is essentially gone at seasons end. No way they can sign McCann, Kahun, Simon, a replacement for Schultz, Riikola, Murray and Jarry for 12.5M. Moving Bjugstad is now a must this offseason for a pick or prospect.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:24 pm

largegarlic wrote:My first reaction is to think this is a bit of an overpayment. It just depends on how good of a prospect Addison really is. I know he got a good bit of hype for his performance with Canada at the World Juniors, but I've also seen some reports suggesting that his lack of size and defensive ability limit his upside--he might project to be more of a 3rd-pairing, PP QB type player. I haven't seen enough of him to have a firm opinion.

And I feel like the Pens are pretty good at selling high on prospects, though, it does seem like it'd be hard to sell Guerin a lemon when he's so familiar with the farm system.


I wanted to see how Addison worked out, but I can’t sit here and say GMJR is stupid for giving him up. We don’t know how he’s going to develop. Is he Pouliot v2.0? He looked good in the WJ but it’s probably not smart to base your opinions on a 2 week tournament. Didn’t Morozov and Kraft have great WJ’s?
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby Sams_Dog on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:24 pm

I’m ok with this. Zuckers price was never going to be cheap. He’s signed for three more years. The first most likely will be between like 22 and 28. I’m fine with that. The odds aren’t great that the pick will pay off and even if it does it will be in 3-4 years. The window will almost certainly be closed then. The tough rebuild was always coming anyway. Go for it now. hopefully they’re scouting on Zucker is correct.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby pens_CT on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:26 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:Need to win in the next 2-3 years while crosby and malkin are elite. Zucker helps us do that, a late 1st this year and Addison do not.


I don't think Zucker does though. I don't think the Penguins go any further with Zucker than without him.


Well if this team continues to play they way it has since coming back from the break they're going nowhere even if they had Guentzel in the lineup. Need to get back to the forwards playing defense.


Or not having your D pinch when there is no forward help.

I just dont see how this team is better in the long term. Murray is essentially gone at seasons end. No way they can sign McCann, Kahun, Simon, a replacement for Schultz, Riikola, Murray and Jarry for 12.5M. Moving Bjugstad is now a must this offseason for a pick or prospect.


I think Murray was gone regardless of this trade. Not sure they want to pay a goalie what Murray supposed wants, and I don't know that he wants to share a net with Jarry.
Last edited by pens_CT on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby bse on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:31 pm

This trade made Penguins better today than what they were yesterday. That's all that matters right now.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:35 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:Need to win in the next 2-3 years while crosby and malkin are elite. Zucker helps us do that, a late 1st this year and Addison do not.


I don't think Zucker does though. I don't think the Penguins go any further with Zucker than without him.


Well if this team continues to play they way it has since coming back from the break they're going nowhere even if they had Guentzel in the lineup. Need to get back to the forwards playing defense.


Or not having your D pinch when there is no forward help.

I just dont see how this team is better in the long term. Murray is essentially gone at seasons end. No way they can sign McCann, Kahun, Simon, a replacement for Schultz, Riikola, Murray and Jarry for 12.5M. Moving Bjugstad is now a must this offseason for a pick or prospect.


I think Murray was gone regardless of this trade.


That very well may have been the case. But it's a heck of a gamble to trade a 2 time cup winning goalie who is 26 and replace him with Jarry and DeSmith who haven't won a playoff series.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby KG on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:39 pm

Kudos to JR for identifying this team can make a run this season. Also Zucker is only 28 and signed for 3 more years. Part of the core for a while now.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby pens_CT on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:41 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
That very well may have been the case. But it's a heck of a gamble to trade a 2 time cup winning goalie who is 26 and replace him with Jarry and DeSmith who haven't won a playoff series.


The same thing could have been said for Murray when he took over the net for the 15-16 playoffs.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:43 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
That very well may have been the case. But it's a heck of a gamble to trade a 2 time cup winning goalie who is 26 and replace him with Jarry and DeSmith who haven't won a playoff series.


The same thing could have been said for Murray when he took over the net for the 15-16 playoffs.


Point taken but the Pens still had Fleury on the roster with Murray when Murray took the starting job.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby opie22002 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:44 pm

I hope Zucker had his bags packed in advance so he can play tomorrow.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby DelPen on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:45 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:Need to win in the next 2-3 years while crosby and malkin are elite. Zucker helps us do that, a late 1st this year and Addison do not.


I don't think Zucker does though. I don't think the Penguins go any further with Zucker than without him.


Well if this team continues to play they way it has since coming back from the break they're going nowhere even if they had Guentzel in the lineup. Need to get back to the forwards playing defense.

The team that is 3-1 with the one loss against one of the best teams in the NHL if not the best the last two months?

I agree we need to get back to some better team defense but man, we are missing our two best defensemen now and not having Kahun was killing us defensively. And now taking out Yuck and having trickle down to maybe have a real checking line again will help a lot.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:47 pm

KG wrote:Kudos to JR for identifying this team can make a run this season. Also Zucker is only 28 and signed for 3 more years. Part of the core for a while now.


I just hope the Pens can find a Shattenkirk type signing this off season to play bottom pairing with JJ and be a PP specialist. Addison would have filled that role sooner rather than later.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby RentedMule66 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:05 pm

First reaction like many seems maybe a bit too much, but after letting it sink in for a few minutes (and wait till you see what others will probably give up this trade deadline) I like it, especially with a few years left on the contract. You gotta give to get. No one is going to give away a 20+ goal scorer at the deadline. You gotta pay for it. All we need is another D man and it's game on!
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby pens_CT on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:07 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:Kudos to JR for identifying this team can make a run this season. Also Zucker is only 28 and signed for 3 more years. Part of the core for a while now.


I just hope the Pens can find a Shattenkirk type signing this off season to play bottom pairing with JJ and be a PP specialist. Addison would have filled that role sooner rather than later.


I think they envision Marino taking over for Schultz on the 2nd PP unit. They need another RHD next year, someone who's an upgrade over Ruhwedel.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby Southern Fan on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:13 pm

So anything else to trade the next two weeks. Start looking at 2021 draft picks.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:14 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:Kudos to JR for identifying this team can make a run this season. Also Zucker is only 28 and signed for 3 more years. Part of the core for a while now.


I just hope the Pens can find a Shattenkirk type signing this off season to play bottom pairing with JJ and be a PP specialist. Addison would have filled that role sooner rather than later.


I think they envision Marino taking over for Schultz on the 2nd PP unit. They need another RHD next year, someone who's an upgrade over Ruhwedel.


I agree, preferably someone who can play with JJ and move the puck.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby longtimefan on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:26 pm

A little perspective. A 1st round pick that isn't a lottery pick is a crapshoot. Of all the #1's they've traded, how many have had an impact in the league? They are vastly overrated. When you're down, you collect them so you have more lottery tickets. When you're chasing a cup, you use them as currency. Saying a 4 time 20 goal scorer on pace for a 5th isn't worth a 1st is not realizing the history of 1st rounders... It's always stuck with me hearing about Colby Armstrong being picked 1st. 20th overall I believe. I remember being excited to hear about him. Then they said his upside was a solid 3rd liner with grit. Such is the state of later 1st round picks. Unless you get lucky. Like getting a Guentzel in the 3rd. The percentage of 1st rounders ever making an impact is alarmingly low. Those are simply facts.

On Addison. He was one of the Pens top prospects, but I haven't seen him listed among the league's top prospects. He had a stellar WC, and has been hot since. But he plateaued after being drafted, following up the next season with almost the exact same point total. Which is relevant in his case, since defense is considered a weakness. We get so enamored by these prospects. The last guy to make an impact at the WC's for the Pens was Pouliot. Addison was not a 1st round pick. He was a 2nd. A point I made often about Sprong. I also have never seen Addison rated as a top pairing defenseman. You've got to keep it in perspective. Maybe he'll prove to be a solid NHL defenseman who can QB a PP. Or maybe he'll be the defensive version of Sprong. It's a gamble for both sides.

There's no arguing about Galchenyuk's need to go. And the condition isn't a bad move either. This draft is expected to be stronger than next. Certainly the Pens should make the playoffs, but it's not a bad idea to hedge your bets.

It's not the deal I wanted. But it's important to keep things in perspective. Kapanen turned out to be a good player. Barzal ended up falling to where the Pens would have picked. Of the past picks and prospects moved over the last 10 years, who else has made a huge impact. Harrington? Morrow? Sam Steel?

I'm not been enamored with Zucker. At the same time, it's hard to argue his profile fits Sully's system to a T. And he's never played with a center like Crosby or Malkin. The only time they've had a 70 point center was Staal the season Zucker scored 33. I always hate giving up futures, but I understand it. The package they gave up is basically what the Rangers apparently want for Kreider. Who will walk July 1. Those are the deals I hate. Zucker is an asset moving forward, and pairs with Jake for a nice pair of LW's. Was it an overpayment? We won't know that for years. Unless the Pens the Cup. It's also the going rate. JR doesn't make deals in a vacuum. I'm sure he had his fingers on the pulse of the league. Supply and demand. It's the market. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There would be plenty of screaming if he would have kept the status quo. Not really an option with the clock ticking on Sid and Geno.

Caps lost again tonight. Pens are 4 back with 2 games in hand. Put him in the lineup and get ready for the stretch run!
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:27 pm

Here's my full thoughts on the deal, including what we got, what we gave up, what this means this year, and what it means this summer and beyond:

https://randomhockeyguy.wordpress.com/2020/02/10/my-thoughts-on-the-penguins-acquiring-jason-zucker/
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:45 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:Kudos to JR for identifying this team can make a run this season. Also Zucker is only 28 and signed for 3 more years. Part of the core for a while now.


I just hope the Pens can find a Shattenkirk type signing this off season to play bottom pairing with JJ and be a PP specialist. Addison would have filled that role sooner rather than later.


Shattenkirk could have filled that role too:(
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby longtimefan on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:48 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Here's my full thoughts on the deal, including what we got, what we gave up, what this means this year, and what it means this summer and beyond:

https://randomhockeyguy.wordpress.com/2020/02/10/my-thoughts-on-the-penguins-acquiring-jason-zucker/


An excellent point about being able to recoup some of the lost assets in a likely Murray deal. The one thing I haven't been able to check is the impact on next year's cap. But I don't think it's a major complication on the surface. Replacing Schultz on the right side will be the biggest challenge, but he really is the Pens 3rd best RD at this point. If you don't mind a little age for a #6 dman, maybe Daley signs cheap ala Cullen? That's just a knee jerk reaction which I haven't thought through.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby Humperdink on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:48 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Here's my full thoughts on the deal, including what we got, what we gave up, what this means this year, and what it means this summer and beyond:

https://randomhockeyguy.wordpress.com/2020/02/10/my-thoughts-on-the-penguins-acquiring-jason-zucker/


Excellent summary.
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Re: Bobby Mac reporting trade

Postby brwi on Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:56 pm

The key is how Addison turns out in the future and that's an unknown at this point. A team that wants to win now and knows that in a few years is going to be woeful can make this kind of trade. The Pens have become better right now and a sort of late 1st rounder isn't a huge give. If the #1 was going to be in the first half of round 1 in the upcoming loaded draft, I would call this a pretty bad trade but I don't see the Pens falling apart down the stretch. Galchenyuk was simply a giveaway and bye bye.

Zucker's contract looks a little high now, but next year will be right at about market rate and the next 2 yrs after should look like a bargain if he can produce 25/50 or so as second line LW. I like the trade in the short run for sure, might hate it down the road if Addison becomes a stud, or like it even more if Addison turns out to be a dud like Pukelot.
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