Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Jim on Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:52 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
Jim wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
Jim wrote:1. Trade Kessel for no good reason
2. Extend the actual problem for 4 more years
3. ... Bad things happen in 3's...



How is Sullivan the problem? I am seriously curious? Did he all of a sudden forget how to coach or were the 2 cup runs in spite of him? Not saying I love the extension just curious


He is horrible at player usage. Horrible at time management. Does not adjust to in game issues (things not working, players playing poorly today, etc).

Arguments used against the people on the other side: Does not see eye to eye with multiple players (used against Kessel). Does not see eye to eye with management (used against Rutherford).


Thanks, I can agree with some of this. I do remember in the past most of us loved how he matched lines and made changes to the game plan, unlike Bylsma did. He is stubborn for sure but I think some of that is he and JR not being on the same page. JR brings in players Sullivan does not want, like Reaves......


Reaves was an ownership mandate... so that's someone else that Sullivan doesn't see eye to eye with, apparently.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby longtimefan on Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:28 pm

Antonio wrote:This means nothing. Coach contracts are absolutely meaningless. They can and do fire people all the time with years left. If things go south this year, I still think he'll be gone.


This is true. It's a vote of confidence for sure. It also takes him out of lame duck status. Which is important. The players are aware that he's not living on borrowed time. By the same token, if the team is struggling at mid season, I could easily see a change. It's a deterrent, but not a huge one. Just a big financial one. Two Cups earned Sully that much. But the hiring of Vellucci is interesting. On some levels, it's innocent enough. Even with a Calder Cup championship, he was coaching for an organization with new ownership. And he and JR go back a long way. But you can't help but wonder if he's also a replacement in waiting.

I won't say when, and hopefully it won't happen, but if the team struggles, the extension won't deter JR from making a change. If they miss the playoffs this season, Sully will never coach during that extension. It will be a sunk cost. However, they believe they can win with him, or they wouldn't have extended him. So it is a major vote of confidence. Hopefully, he runs with it.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Kevintripod on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:25 pm

This extension is gonna look really bad when the players quit on Sullivan this season.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby pens_CT on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:34 pm

Jim wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
Jim wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
Jim wrote:1. Trade Kessel for no good reason
2. Extend the actual problem for 4 more years
3. ... Bad things happen in 3's...



How is Sullivan the problem? I am seriously curious? Did he all of a sudden forget how to coach or were the 2 cup runs in spite of him? Not saying I love the extension just curious


He is horrible at player usage. Horrible at time management. Does not adjust to in game issues (things not working, players playing poorly today, etc).

Arguments used against the people on the other side: Does not see eye to eye with multiple players (used against Kessel). Does not see eye to eye with management (used against Rutherford).


Thanks, I can agree with some of this. I do remember in the past most of us loved how he matched lines and made changes to the game plan, unlike Bylsma did. He is stubborn for sure but I think some of that is he and JR not being on the same page. JR brings in players Sullivan does not want, like Reaves......


Reaves was an ownership mandate... so that's someone else that Sullivan doesn't see eye to eye with, apparently.


So ownership and Sullivan don't see eye to eye, but ownership probably sunk at least 12 million over the next four years just for the hell of it. Not saying he is guaranteed to finish the contract, but if some basic disagreement existed the extension would never be offered.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Owchar76 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:07 pm

Kevintripod wrote:This extension is gonna look really bad when the players quit on Sullivan this season.


Why will this happen? Since you seem to have a crystal ball.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Sams_Dog on Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:13 pm

Some good to come out of this: Sullivan can rest easier knowing he has the support of management. The players will know that he is probably not going anywhere soon so that will be less reason for them to question him or, even worse, quit on him, although I can't see this team doing that. They got the biggest malcontent out of the room so that should help. Even if the team really struggles this season and he is fired he won't be out of work long at all because of his record with Pittsburgh so someone else will pick him up and pay him and the Pens will be off the hook. I think Sullivan is a good coach and is worth extending. Four years is a bit much for JR loves term.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby stonewizard51 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:06 pm

Owchar76 wrote:
Kevintripod wrote:This extension is gonna look really bad when the players quit on Sullivan this season.


Why will this happen? Since you seem to have a crystal ball.

I was thinking the same thing. Nothing is a given especially when it comes down to how the Pens will play. IMHO everything is in the if/then situation. The other option is he might have been a little sarcastic is all.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:19 pm

Really the bottom line means nothing, they can fire him at any time and none of that money really matters to the pens cap.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby pens_CT on Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Really the bottom line means nothing, they can fire him at any time and none of that money really matters to the pens cap.


Chances are if he were fired by the Penguins he would be hired the following season by another team, so the financial impact on Burkle and Lemieux's wallets would be minimal.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Hatrick on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:59 pm

this is a terrible move, 4 years?? on a guy who they possibly should can during next season?!

That would be paying him to sit at home for 4 and half years, that is insane.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:02 pm

Hatrick wrote:this is a terrible move, 4 years?? on a guy who they possibly should can during next season?!

That would be paying him to sit at home for 4 and half years, that is insane.


Once again, who cares? This will not affect the salary cap or the team they can put on the ice. If he gets fired so what. He either gets another job or the Pens pay him. It does not affect the money they spend on the ice
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Owchar76 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:04 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
Hatrick wrote:this is a terrible move, 4 years?? on a guy who they possibly should can during next season?!

That would be paying him to sit at home for 4 and half years, that is insane.


Once again, who cares? This will not affect the salary cap or the team they can put on the ice. If he gets fired so what. He either gets another job or the Pens pay him. It does not affect the money they spend on the ice


Exactly. With the recycling of coaches in the NHL, the Pens would be off the hook pretty quickly if they were to can him.

Why so terrible? And why should they can him during next season? You already know what's going to happen?
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Hatrick on Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:22 pm

Owchar76 wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
Hatrick wrote:this is a terrible move, 4 years?? on a guy who they possibly should can during next season?!

That would be paying him to sit at home for 4 and half years, that is insane.


Once again, who cares? This will not affect the salary cap or the team they can put on the ice. If he gets fired so what. He either gets another job or the Pens pay him. It does not affect the money they spend on the ice


Exactly. With the recycling of coaches in the NHL, the Pens would be off the hook pretty quickly if they were to can him.

Why so terrible? And why should they can him during next season? You already know what's going to happen?

I said possible not would. As long as it doesn't effect their decision making when it comes to fire or not I guess it isn't a big deal. Not our money. But if he makes them hesitate in firing him when they otherwise should, that is detrimental to the team.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby pekkasteele on Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:09 am

Jim wrote:1. Trade Kessel for no good reason
2. Extend the actual problem for 4 more years
3. ... Bad things happen in 3's...


Or it is the complete opposite and Kessel was the problem after all. Maybe the rumors of Phil influenced Malkin in a bad way, as reported, that Phil wanted to play with Malkin, but Malkin wanted to support the coach decision and that made him torn between friend and duty? That he created unrest with the younger guys with his attitude of not joining on all activities like the "after practise meetings at center ice".

So ...

1. Trading Kessel to right the ship
2. Extend the coach that won 2 cups in 4 years
3. Creating a stable and calm atmosphere in the locker room
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:40 am

At least Sully is better than our last two coaches, so there's that. I cringe when I think of those other two behind the bench.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:14 am

Humperdink wrote:At least Sully is better than our last two coaches, so there's that. I cringe when I think of those other two behind the bench.


If you remove Bob Johnson and Scotty Bowman from the list you can probably cringe at 99+ % of all the guys who have histrorically coached this team.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby alancac98 on Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:39 am

I like Sullivan as the head coach. I think he needs a better 2nd in command-more of a player type guy. I just think that GMJR is giving him players he really doesn’t want in his system, and that is difficult to round that square peg! Sullivan may be abrasive and has his faults, but he is the one of the best 5 coaches in hockey. Last year, I think the tides negatively turned when Hags was traded and I’m not sure how much Sullivan was a part of that decision, but he took the brunt of it from the players. I think Kessel may have been a jack-ass. There weren’t a whole host of teams lining up to get a point per game player with two cups to his resume, were there? Kissel may have been the Pens AB!
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:11 am


That's a good read. Sums it all up neatly. There are lots of things to complain about, certainly about last season.

However:
- He's only a coach. Players matter a whole lot more.
- He still can be fired at any point.
- It's not like he's particularly worse than any coach around the league.


Feels like management doubled down in terms of salary. Maybe help Sullivan regain parts of the locker room he lost. To put that money and term on the table, they must also believe Sullivan has enough upside.

I'm going to wait and see.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:27 am

Puck-Lurker wrote:

That's a good read. Sums it all up neatly. There are lots of things to complain about, certainly about last season.

However:
- He's only a coach. Players matter a whole lot more.
- He still can be fired at any point.
- It's not like he's particularly worse than any coach around the league.


Feels like management doubled down in terms of salary. Maybe help Sullivan regain parts of the locker room he lost. To put that money and term on the table, they must also believe Sullivan has enough upside.

I'm going to wait and see.


His salary & term has essentially zero risk. If Sullivan were fired during the season, he would probably be the first one hired the following season, so the Pens are off the hook for the balance of his contract.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Southern Fan on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:30 am

Probably better than a Barry Trotz situation where he disses the Caps for not extending before the Stanley Cup win. Then he goes and wins the Jack Adams with another team.

Ron and Mario have Monopoly money to spend on a fired coach.

I still don’t have a ton of faith on the negotiating prowess of our 70 year old GM.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:33 am

pens_CT wrote:
Humperdink wrote:At least Sully is better than our last two coaches, so there's that. I cringe when I think of those other two behind the bench.


If you remove Bob Johnson and Scotty Bowman from the list you can probably cringe at 99+ % of all the guys who have histrorically coached this team.


You wouldn't be referring to Ivan the Great or Ubie (he of trap door fame), would you?

From Tico Rick (2007): "(To avoid cat calls) Ubriaco was the only coach to not walk across the ice before games. For those that remember, he used a tunnel under the stands and he would appear from a trap door behind the bench. I remember being at games during that period and all of a sudden Ubriaco would "appear" out of this trap door."
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Humperdink on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:35 am

Comment deleted.
Last edited by Humperdink on Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby penny lane on Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 am

From the Athletic, Coach Sullivan has already met with Evgeni. Good meeting, specifics not shared. What has come out since 81 was traded is last year Gene was in the middle of the coach and kessel.
Happy Coach kept promise.
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Re: Penguins Extended Sullivan for 4 years

Postby Hatrick on Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:27 am

pekkasteele wrote:
Jim wrote:1. Trade Kessel for no good reason
2. Extend the actual problem for 4 more years
3. ... Bad things happen in 3's...


Or it is the complete opposite and Kessel was the problem after all. Maybe the rumors of Phil influenced Malkin in a bad way, as reported, that Phil wanted to play with Malkin, but Malkin wanted to support the coach decision and that made him torn between friend and duty? That he created unrest with the younger guys with his attitude of not joining on all activities like the "after practise meetings at center ice".

So ...

1. Trading Kessel to right the ship
2. Extend the coach that won 2 cups in 4 years
3. Creating a stable and calm atmosphere in the locker room

that might be believable IF Phil was the only person who had been driven out by Sullivan, however that is not the case. Phil or no Phil, Sullivan has caused riffs with players(not that other coaches wouldn't either but to blame it all on Kessel is utterly ridiculously)
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