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PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Ericf on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:07 pm

I’d drive Angello to the airport myself , hell even to Anaheim, if it would get JJ off the roster...
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Jim on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:15 pm

There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:24 pm

Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Maestro on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:03 pm

Johnson won't be in top 6. No way he is better than Riikola. Sully has to get it right this season, at least by Jan 2020. JJ will then get buried to save the $1mil for trade deadline.

Rutherford is starting to annoy me with his "interviews."

STFU already. Nobody believes a word he says anymore. Dude is all over the map.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Maestro on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:16 pm

Ericf wrote:I’d drive Angello to the airport myself , hell even to Anaheim, if it would get JJ off the roster...


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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Wyopen on Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:36 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.


FLPF, exactly, on your second paragraph. BTW how much cap space does Philly have left with the Hayes signing and the two trades?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:52 am

Wyopen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.


FLPF, exactly, on your second paragraph. BTW how much cap space does Philly have left with the Hayes signing and the two trades?

I believe approx. $21 mil
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:03 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.



I think you will see a huge pickup in activity from us and the league once they announce the salary cap for 2019-2020. Until than it is kind of hard to sign players and trade if you don't know your limit or ceiling.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:09 am

Maestro wrote:Johnson won't be in top 6. No way he is better than Riikola. Sully has to get it right this season, at least by Jan 2020. JJ will then get buried to save the $1mil for trade deadline.

Rutherford is starting to annoy me with his "interviews."

STFU already. Nobody believes a word he says anymore. Dude is all over the map.


He lost me during his 93.7 The Fan interview when he said he had to move Maatta or Johnson. My question is why not both? They were both awful and healthy scratches in a series we got swept in. BOTH were anchors and should be gone.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Pruezy11881 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:18 am

At least one more defenseman will be moved before the season starts. It's almost out of necessity that it will have to happen if they want to resign their RFA's and target anyone in free agency.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:30 am

Plus if we intend to sign Peterrson that would mean we have 8 D on one way contracts. So someone has to be moved.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:45 am

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.



I think you will see a huge pickup in activity from us and the league once they announce the salary cap for 2019-2020. Until than it is kind of hard to sign players and trade if you don't know your limit or ceiling.

When will they announce the cap?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby theblackarts on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 am

Daniel wrote:
The only issue I have with trading Angello is that he is the only prospect with some size and grit. From what I read he skates pretty well and seems like he'd be a good 3rd/4th liner that hits. Dobbler prospects implies he could be a shutdown 3C. Not sure if he'll score enough for that role, but you don't just give up on a guy like that to get rid of a bad contact. Pavylchev is pretty big, but not sure he skates well enough to be an NHL center and from I've read Angello does.

While I agree it wouldn't be the end of the world to lose him, I think giving him away to remove Jack Johnson is foolish. The Penguins prospects might not be that great, but people said that when Rust, Wilson, Sheary, etc came up right before the cup wins. They don't need A+ scoring prospects, they just need steady players who can play a physical game and wear down other teams. Trading the one guy that can do that would be a mistake.


Everything you're saying makes sense, but I don't think you're factoring in adding a legit #3 or 4 defenseman to the team, and the impact that would have, versus literally any of the options myself and others have presented. Taking a loss in a JJ trade (especially with a prospect who may never make it to the NHL) to sign or trade for a solid D that plays 20 mins a night is a humongous win... isn't it?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby theblackarts on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:03 am

Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.


It's very possible that he brings some intangible quality that the team loves, but given that he fails the stats test, the eye test, and the metrics test, I'm sure we can find that quality elsewhere. I can't imagine that GMJR wouldn't like to have JJ's cap space to play with.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Daniel on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:18 am

theblackarts wrote:
Daniel wrote:
The only issue I have with trading Angello is that he is the only prospect with some size and grit. From what I read he skates pretty well and seems like he'd be a good 3rd/4th liner that hits. Dobbler prospects implies he could be a shutdown 3C. Not sure if he'll score enough for that role, but you don't just give up on a guy like that to get rid of a bad contact. Pavylchev is pretty big, but not sure he skates well enough to be an NHL center and from I've read Angello does.

While I agree it wouldn't be the end of the world to lose him, I think giving him away to remove Jack Johnson is foolish. The Penguins prospects might not be that great, but people said that when Rust, Wilson, Sheary, etc came up right before the cup wins. They don't need A+ scoring prospects, they just need steady players who can play a physical game and wear down other teams. Trading the one guy that can do that would be a mistake.


Everything you're saying makes sense, but I don't think you're factoring in adding a legit #3 or 4 defenseman to the team, and the impact that would have, versus literally any of the options myself and others have presented. Taking a loss in a JJ trade (especially with a prospect who may never make it to the NHL) to sign or trade for a solid D that plays 20 mins a night is a humongous win... isn't it?


I think Schultz and Pettersson can be legit 3 or 4 defensemen, Gudbranson is fine as 5th and get an ELC/small contract to fill out the 6. Create competition for the spot rather than overpaying for someone.

Not against trading a midrange prospect to get rid of Johnson, just not the only big bodied player with some skill. Essentially, the Pens have Bryan Rust prospects and Anthony Angello. While none of them are going to be Hall of Famer's, Angello at least brings an element of size the others don't have.

I won't lose sleep over him being traded, just think he's the one to keep versus the rest of the forwards.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby KG on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:21 am

theblackarts wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.


It's very possible that he brings some intangible quality that the team loves, but given that he fails the stats test, the eye test, and the metrics test, I'm sure we can find that quality elsewhere. I can't imagine that GMJR wouldn't like to have JJ's cap space to play with.


The fact that JR came out and said it was either Maatta or JJ shows that they can easily part with him. Maatta had value, JJ does not. That's the only reason he is still on the roster.

I really think he will be packaged with Kessel in a trade with some salary retained.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:32 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.



I think you will see a huge pickup in activity from us and the league once they announce the salary cap for 2019-2020. Until than it is kind of hard to sign players and trade if you don't know your limit or ceiling.

When will they announce the cap?

Just saw Chris Johnston from Sportsnet saying they don't expect cap to be announced until Saturday. NHL and NHLPA are still discussing. Most likely, that means they are discussing how much escrow they are willing to put up. More in escrow allows for a higher cap.....but has a bigger chance for the players to lose that escrow money.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:35 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Wyopen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.

If Rutherford isn't smart enough to see the effect that Johnson had on every d-man he played with, or that he was a healthy scratch in Game 1, this team is doomed. The team either has to bank on Pettersson being good enough to play in the top 4 with Schultz, or put Johnson there. And even if Pettersson can handle top 4, Johnson-Gudbranson pairing should have opposing teams licking their lips at the fast break chances they are going to get against that pairing.

This team can't just move Maatta for Kahun and call it an offseason. As usual, teams are loading up around them. Philly is about to sign Kevin Hayes to a 6-7 year deal at 7M AAV, and added Niskanen and Braun. Rangers added Trouba, Adam Fox, and are about to draft Kaakko or Hughes at #2. Islanders were solid last season. Carolina surprised people. Florida may be getting Panarin and Bobrovsky. Bruins did well this season. Tampa is still loaded.


FLPF, exactly, on your second paragraph. BTW how much cap space does Philly have left with the Hayes signing and the two trades?

I believe approx. $21 mil

Actually closer to 23M, but, they need to sign RFAs Ryan Hartman, Scott Laughton, and Travis Konecny up front, and Travis Sanheim and Ivan Provorov on defense.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Pens4Life on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:51 am

I still hope JJ gets moved for small cap relief.. We start season with Letang, Dumoulin, Schultz, Pettersson, Gudbranson, Riikola and Ruhwedel, thats solid top 7..add vet at deadline if needed.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:13 am

Pens4Life wrote:I still hope JJ gets moved for small cap relief.. We start season with Letang, Dumoulin, Schultz, Pettersson, Gudbranson, Riikola and Ruhwedel, thats solid top 7..add vet at deadline if needed.

If we move Johnson, I'd want to take a chance that Pettersson can play top 4 with Schultz, and then find a cheap bottom pairing guy to go with Gudbranson. GMJR didn't sound very confident, and I would have to agree, that Riikola is ready to play a full season in the top 6 at the NHL level. Yes, he does have 1-way deal, and would have to pass through waivers, but, I didn't get a strong sense that Riikola is a lock to be a 6th or 7th d-man.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Jim on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:31 am

KG wrote:
theblackarts wrote:
Jim wrote:There is something that many people seem to be missing... the Pens dont need, nor possibly want, to trade Johnson.


It's very possible that he brings some intangible quality that the team loves, but given that he fails the stats test, the eye test, and the metrics test, I'm sure we can find that quality elsewhere. I can't imagine that GMJR wouldn't like to have JJ's cap space to play with.


The fact that JR came out and said it was either Maatta or JJ shows that they can easily part with him. Maatta had value, JJ does not. That's the only reason he is still on the roster.

I really think he will be packaged with Kessel in a trade with some salary retained.


No, people still act like it is all black or all white with Johnson. It's not.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby steelershark on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:40 pm

Johnson was a -13 his first 25 games with the Pens, next 57 games he was a +9. Played on his off side for most of the season too.
(see I listened to my stat teacher, that I can make the numbers say anything I want too) JJ will only get traded because the deal is a hockey trade.
Hell, Kessel was a minus 19 for the year, showed no effort to backcheck and was a turnover machine in the neutral zone.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Jim on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:46 pm

steelershark wrote:Johnson was a -13 his first 25 games with the Pens, next 57 games he was a +9. Played on his off side for most of the season too.
(see I listened to my stat teacher, that I can make the numbers say anything I want too) JJ will only get traded because the deal is a hockey trade.
Hell, Kessel was a minus 19 for the year, showed no effort to backcheck and was a turnover machine in the neutral zone.


Didn't you also hear the Kessel had a horrible year 5v5? It was only the 4th best 5v5 production ear of his career. 4th best out of 13 years. Total scrub! It's amazing what people can talk themselves into when they decide to ignore the facts.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby steelershark on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:48 pm

Jim wrote:
steelershark wrote:Johnson was a -13 his first 25 games with the Pens, next 57 games he was a +9. Played on his off side for most of the season too.
(see I listened to my stat teacher, that I can make the numbers say anything I want too) JJ will only get traded because the deal is a hockey trade.
Hell, Kessel was a minus 19 for the year, showed no effort to backcheck and was a turnover machine in the neutral zone.


Didn't you also hear the Kessel had a horrible year 5v5? It was only the 4th best 5v5 production ear of his career. 4th best out of 13 years. Total scrub! It's amazing what people can talk themselves into when they decide to ignore the facts.

Stat can say what you want! His play to my "eye test" was poor.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Daniel on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:56 pm

Jim wrote:
steelershark wrote:Johnson was a -13 his first 25 games with the Pens, next 57 games he was a +9. Played on his off side for most of the season too.
(see I listened to my stat teacher, that I can make the numbers say anything I want too) JJ will only get traded because the deal is a hockey trade.
Hell, Kessel was a minus 19 for the year, showed no effort to backcheck and was a turnover machine in the neutral zone.


Didn't you also hear the Kessel had a horrible year 5v5? It was only the 4th best 5v5 production ear of his career. 4th best out of 13 years. Total scrub! It's amazing what people can talk themselves into when they decide to ignore the facts.


Or they can say he's the most tradeable over 30 asset who will get the best return and help with cap space, even though he's a bargain? I fall into the "if you can get a great deal trade him, otherwise keep him" camp......Zucker = KEEP HIM

I think people also think the Pens need to make a major change to shake up the core, but unless it's Letang, Malkin, Sid, I can't see that shaking anything up.
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