PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

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PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Penspal on Thu May 23, 2019 5:37 pm

TSN is reporting that there is a framework in place and its sitting with Kessel's group for consideration.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-minnesota-wild-discussing-trade-for-phil-kessel-with-pittsburgh-penguins-1.1310522

I don't like this deal. To much junk going both ways and the Wild would get the Best Player involved. Plus, its like marrying the first person that comes along. C'mon Jimmy, get Phil on the catwalk ;)
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Ericf on Thu May 23, 2019 5:42 pm

Penspal wrote:TSN is reporting that there is a framework in place and its sitting with Kessel's group for consideration.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-minnesota-wild-discussing-trade-for-phil-kessel-with-pittsburgh-penguins-1.1310522

I don't like this deal. To much junk going both ways and the Wild would get the Best Player involved. Plus, its like marrying the first person that comes along. C'mon Jimmy, get Phil on the catwalk ;)


Exactly...it’s terrible....we’re absolutely not going to get the best player back in any trade of Phil but we at least shouldn’t be taking on more overpaid players who are solid but nothing great and who need to have rebound years on top of that. The Pens are smelling of desperation right now and it’s not going to get us a decent return
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Skatingpen on Thu May 23, 2019 5:49 pm

From Lebrun
“What I'm hearing: Kessel at the moment is not leaning towards waiving his NTC to go to Minnesota but that doesn't mean it ultimately couldn't happen eventually. However, there are a few clubs on his 8-team YES list that have contacted Pittsburgh so we'll see where that goes...”
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu May 23, 2019 5:54 pm

Funny how accurate they were about Rask, see his scouting report when he was drafted in 2011. Because of his lack of effort hes looking like a huge bust.

Scouts have seen plenty of Rask in the past two seasons as he participated in the four major U-18 tournaments. Once considered a top ten prospect, his stock has dropped this season. Strengths – Strong, rangy forward with powerful skating stride and elite puck skills, deft puckhandler with some finish to his game. . Weaknesses – Has a tendency to overhandle the puck and try to do too much, lacks vision to see open linemates. Inconsistent in his effort, not always willing to give or take a hit, or go to the dirty areas. NHL Upside – One of the draft’s boom or bust prospects. If he figures out that he won’t stickhandler through NHL teams and learns to work hard he can be a top-six NHL forward. If not, he may be a fringe NHLer.”

-TSN’s Grant McCagg

“What was previously a year under the radar quickly developed into a year to forget for this former ‘can’t-miss’ prospect. Rask had issues with ice-time, attitude, and on-ice performance; factors that have certainly changed a once favourable opinion of him. While there are a lot of negatives about Rask, he does still have an intriguing skill-set which should be enough to secure him a spot in the Top 50. Rask’s great shot and combination of size and vision indicate a lot of potential, but he’s going to need to show more drive and passion if he ever wants to realize any of it.”
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby largegarlic on Thu May 23, 2019 6:17 pm

Penspal wrote:TSN is reporting that there is a framework in place and its sitting with Kessel's group for consideration.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-minnesota-wild-discussing-trade-for-phil-kessel-with-pittsburgh-penguins-1.1310522

I don't like this deal. To much junk going both ways and the Wild would get the Best Player involved. Plus, its like marrying the first person that comes along. C'mon Jimmy, get Phil on the catwalk ;)


I wonder if this is Rutherford leaking a proposed deal to make it clear that Kessel is in the shop window and is still available if anyone can beat this deal and get him to waive his NTC.

But yeah, not sure I like the junk for junk aspect of this deal.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu May 23, 2019 6:21 pm

Don't miss an important part of the article:

"is believed to be part of the return offered by Minnesota."

And then Rask is mentioned later. This leads me to believe that more would be coming to us than just Zucker for Kessel.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby dark_forces on Thu May 23, 2019 6:24 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:Don't miss an important part of the article:

"is believed to be part of the return offered by Minnesota."

And then Rask is mentioned later. This leads me to believe that more would be coming to us than just Zucker for Kessel.

Any additional insight offered by TIOPS?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby ville5 on Thu May 23, 2019 6:41 pm

dark_forces no. Just trying to pass off regurgitated news as his own.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Skatingpen on Thu May 23, 2019 6:43 pm

largegarlic wrote:
Penspal wrote:TSN is reporting that there is a framework in place and its sitting with Kessel's group for consideration.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-minnesota-wild-discussing-trade-for-phil-kessel-with-pittsburgh-penguins-1.1310522

I don't like this deal. To much junk going both ways and the Wild would get the Best Player involved. Plus, its like marrying the first person that comes along. C'mon Jimmy, get Phil on the catwalk ;)


I wonder if this is Rutherford leaking a proposed deal to make it clear that Kessel is in the shop window and is still available if anyone can beat this deal and get him to waive his NTC.

But yeah, not sure I like the junk for junk aspect of this deal.



Penguins GM Jim Rutherford continues to talk to other teams about Kessel ... it's a question of when not if for Kessel to be dealt but where exactly remains TBD.“
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby KG on Thu May 23, 2019 7:25 pm

Knowing the Pens only have limited numbers of teams Phill will accept a trade too obviously limits potential return.

I would like the Zucker deal much more if we could get their first round pick as well. Maybe swapping picks?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 23, 2019 8:02 pm

Phil with the NTC is in control of the situation. Those people looking for a reasonable return are going to be disappointed unless you can get two of the eight teams on his list interested in a trade.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Thu May 23, 2019 8:12 pm

ville5 wrote:dark_forces no. Just trying to pass off regurgitated news as his own.

Actually, that's not correct at all. TIOPS (and nobody else) is claiming Kessel was actually asked to waive his NTC on Monday, and has already told the Penguins he is not going to waive his NTC for Minnesota. From what TIOPS is saying, the Penguins and Wild are trying to keep trade hopes alive, and that the Penguins have given the Wild permission to speak to Kessel and his agent. Problem is, accoding to TIOPS, Kessel and co aren't returning the Wild's calls. Wild have tried to get Parise and others involved to try and persuade Kessel to come to Minnesota.

TIOPS claims GMJR has already told Kessel there is zero possibility he is going to return to Pittsburgh next year, and claims Kessel has told the team find a deal with someone on his 8 team trade list, which TIOPS claims includes Nashville, LA, and Arizona
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby ville5 on Thu May 23, 2019 8:21 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:dark_forces no. Just trying to pass off regurgitated news as his own.

Actually, that's not correct at all. TIOPS (and nobody else) is claiming Kessel was actually asked to waive his NTC on Monday, and has already told the Penguins he is not going to waive his NTC for Minnesota. From what TIOPS is saying, the Penguins and Wild are trying to keep trade hopes alive, and that the Penguins have given the Wild permission to speak to Kessel and his agent. Problem is, accoding to TIOPS, Kessel and co aren't returning the Wild's calls. Wild have tried to get Parise and others involved to try and persuade Kessel to come to Minnesota.

TIOPS claims GMJR has already told Kessel there is zero possibility he is going to return to Pittsburgh next year, and claims Kessel has told the team find a deal with someone on his 8 team trade list, which TIOPS claims includes Nashville, LA, and Arizona

Well yeah, if you believe that lol. Personally, I take it as him trying to enhance his story to make himself look valid.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Daniel on Thu May 23, 2019 8:23 pm

KG wrote:Knowing the Pens only have limited numbers of teams Phill will accept a trade too obviously limits potential return.

I would like the Zucker deal much more if we could get their first round pick as well. Maybe swapping picks?


No way on swapping picks. The Pens are trading Kessel after the 2 highest point totals of his career. They really don't need to trade him and are selling high right now. If they don't get a second 1st round pick in a trade, they better get a blue chip player under the age of about 23-25. Otherwise, they might as well keep him, though this opinion is based on not believing the media accounts of him being a problem player.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby KG on Thu May 23, 2019 8:26 pm

Wonder if the 8 team no trade list is about winning or destination? LA isn’t a contending team. Arizona is a nice young team but not ready.

Minnesota is close to his home state and he has friends there. Weird.

LA may look to move Taffoli I was reading . Starting to be the fun time of year! When you’re not playing in the cup obviously lol
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Thu May 23, 2019 8:33 pm

pens_CT wrote:Phil with the NTC is in control of the situation. Those people looking for a reasonable return are going to be disappointed unless you can get two of the eight teams on his list interested in a trade.

:thumb: I don't get the hate on this deal. Anyone thinking the Penguins were going to get some landslide haul for Kessel were dreaming. A guy who has worn out his welcome in some form or another on every NHL team, has again apparently worn out his welcome. I don't pretend to know what is true and what is rumor, but, I have to at least consider for a moment that the skipping ending team portion of practice, late for practice meetings, rude to staff, insubordinate to coaches.....something there is the truth. And if that is the case, you look to move the player.

The big question with this deal should be, it's a risk for Pittsburgh because Zucker and Rask both had down seasons last year. Zucker dropped from 33 goals and 64 points down to 21 goals and 42 points. But, I like the fact that he has 30 goal, 60 point potential....he's done it before. Someone on Twitter posted that, over the past 3 years, Zucker actually has more even strength goals (60) than Kessel does (52). Kessel had 16-24 more ES assists during that time. Zucker is 5 years younger, has speed, and plays a good two-way game. It's a risk, and, it may not be the number one deal I want to see, but, I don't see it as horrible at all.

Rask had a horrible year last year, managing only 9 points in 49 games. But the year before in Carolina, he 31 points. The season before that, he had 45 points. The year before THAT, he had 21 goals and 48 points. You want to know the first thing that jumps out at me when I see that decline from 48 to 45, to 31, to 9. Those 40 point seasons, he was averaging 17 minutes a night TOI. The 31 point season, he dropped down to about 15 and a half minutes. Last year, in both his Carolina and Minnesota games....he was down to 12 minutes. Again, it is a gamble, but, playing time and maybe system fit in Minnesota could have been an impact. At 4M, if he's a little expensive, but, if he's scoring 40 points on a 3rd line RW, and playing well defensively, I'm ok with it. It's not that far off from what Rust is getting.

Zucker is 27, 5 years younger than Phil.....and Rask is only 26. This is again a chance to get the team a little younger.

So many people are trying to spin this as we need to dump Kessel just for them to take Jack Johnson. I really don't think that is the case. I would be perfectly fine just with a JJ for Rask swap if they couldn't get the Kessel part to work.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FLPensFan on Thu May 23, 2019 8:40 pm

Daniel wrote:
KG wrote:Knowing the Pens only have limited numbers of teams Phill will accept a trade too obviously limits potential return.

I would like the Zucker deal much more if we could get their first round pick as well. Maybe swapping picks?


No way on swapping picks. The Pens are trading Kessel after the 2 highest point totals of his career. They really don't need to trade him and are selling high right now. If they don't get a second 1st round pick in a trade, they better get a blue chip player under the age of about 23-25. Otherwise, they might as well keep him, though this opinion is based on not believing the media accounts of him being a problem player.

I would add that, there could very well be other pieces involved in the deal that aren't being released. I doubt we get Minnesota's 1st, but maybe there are other picks and/or prospects involved.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Daniel on Thu May 23, 2019 8:56 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:Phil with the NTC is in control of the situation. Those people looking for a reasonable return are going to be disappointed unless you can get two of the eight teams on his list interested in a trade.

:thumb: I don't get the hate on this deal. Anyone thinking the Penguins were going to get some landslide haul for Kessel were dreaming. A guy who has worn out his welcome in some form or another on every NHL team, has again apparently worn out his welcome. I don't pretend to know what is true and what is rumor, but, I have to at least consider for a moment that the skipping ending team portion of practice, late for practice meetings, rude to staff, insubordinate to coaches.....something there is the truth. And if that is the case, you look to move the player.


I think his reputation was worse in Toronto than it is now, though I get the wearing out his welcome opinion. His career was less accomplished leaving Toronto than it is now, adding in increased point totals and 2 Stanley Cup rings. Sure he's 4 years older, but he isn't so old the team can't expect a 1st round pick for him.

I can see Colorado trading their 16th, Arizona trading their 14th, Dallas trading their 18th. Each adding another player or prospect to the trade. I can't see a 3 to 1 trade, but I can see a 2 to 1 trade including a 1st round pick.

These three teams are relatively young and trading for Kessel can put them into the playoffs (Arizona) or help get deeper in the playoffs. Have you seen Dallas' RW depth chart? Yikes. I actually see a pretty good fit with Dallas.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu May 23, 2019 9:18 pm

Can we trade JR or Sully instead of Kessel?
This is crazy talk.
How in the hell is it being determined that the guy who scored over 80 points last year is the reason we barely made the playoffs and couldn’t score once we got there?
We are going to trade the only sniper we have?
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu May 23, 2019 9:37 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:We are going to trade the only sniper we have?



Image
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby murphydump55 on Thu May 23, 2019 9:37 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Can we trade JR or Sully instead of Kessel?
This is crazy talk.
How in the hell is it being determined that the guy who scored over 80 points last year is the reason we barely made the playoffs and couldn’t score once we got there?
We are going to trade the only sniper we have?


The fact that they are apparently trading him and saying there’s no chance he returns should tell you everything you need to know, especially with his numbers here.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby Hatrick on Thu May 23, 2019 9:45 pm

this is a ridiculous idea UNLESS Minnesota is also throwing in their first on top of rask and zucker. Johnson and rask is basically a wash, I might rather have JJ tbh(inb4 everyone flips, I said might. Both are not good for their contracts, and rask actually makes even more). Zucker is very good but is a dropoff from Kessel at only a slightly cheaper cap hit.
The pens don't HAVE to trade Kessel, I am still not sold on if they will or not, despite the media once again trying to run him out of town.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu May 23, 2019 9:54 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can we trade JR or Sully instead of Kessel?
This is crazy talk.
How in the hell is it being determined that the guy who scored over 80 points last year is the reason we barely made the playoffs and couldn’t score once we got there?
We are going to trade the only sniper we have?


The fact that they are apparently trading him and saying there’s no chance he returns should tell you everything you need to know, especially with his numbers here.


Sully did the same thing to Cole, we will miss Kessel like we miss Cole.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu May 23, 2019 11:40 pm

(I have been re-watching Deadwood, in preparation of the Deadwood movie coming soon, so I use my Deadwood language. If you have not done so, commence watching the series Deadwood immediately after reading this post. You're welcome.)

So I was one of the hoopleheads that did not want to trade Kessel. But I saw the writing on the wall and apparently, as is the rumor, they are going to do it. I am not surprised, especially with the information about his conduct that has come out recently. As if in defense of trading the coc****er.

I said that the only place I saw Kessel going was Minnesoooota. See, I am from Pittsburgh but I have lived in Minny for almost 15 years now, and it's just the way things are here that they want, and many times the players want, to come back and play here, being Kessel is from nearby Wisconsin and having played for the U of M. I am surprised that Phil apparently did not want to return to his roots, and instead would journey elsewhere. However, apparently Minnesota and Pittsburgh reject his rebuke and have decided to pressure him by making the trade public information before it is consummated. To what end? It remains to be seen.

Now back to watching Deadwood. What a great F'ing show.
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Re: PROPOSED Trade: Kessel & JJ to Wild for Zucker & Rask

Postby jayv8227 on Fri May 24, 2019 6:07 am

FallenHero96 wrote:(I have been re-watching Deadwood, in preparation of the Deadwood movie coming soon, so I use my Deadwood language. If you have not done so, commence watching the series Deadwood immediately after reading this post. You're welcome.)

So I was one of the hoopleheads that did not want to trade Kessel. But I saw the writing on the wall and apparently, as is the rumor, they are going to do it. I am not surprised, especially with the information about his conduct that has come out recently. As if in defense of trading the coc****er.

I said that the only place I saw Kessel going was Minnesoooota. See, I am from Pittsburgh but I have lived in Minny for almost 15 years now, and it's just the way things are here that they want, and many times the players want, to come back and play here, being Kessel is from nearby Wisconsin and having played for the U of M. I am surprised that Phil apparently did not want to return to his roots, and instead would journey elsewhere. However, apparently Minnesota and Pittsburgh reject his rebuke and have decided to pressure him by making the trade public information before it is consummated. To what end? It remains to be seen.

Now back to watching Deadwood. What a great F'ing show.

Best show ever. Geeked for the movie. :thumbs up:
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