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Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Daniel on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:My point is, if you have a small chance that a drafted goalie works out why not simply not draft goalies. Then, when you need a goalie simply just offer a low draft pick for one that is good. Like some team will do for Jarry. If Jarry is an example of a goalie that *did* work out and we do not get back a 2nd round pick which is what we spent on him, why then would you draft a goalie to begin with?


In all fairness, when they drafted Jarry, did anyone see the Pens having 3 legit NHL goalies under the age of 25 at this point in time? Heck, the Pens might have more success with Jarry/DeSmith/Murray than any goalie they've developed of the past 30 years combined.

If Jarry is moved, and I still think Murray needs to prove he can be reliable long term, I think he'll be part of a huge trade and not a one for one deal. Of course, now that I say that, he'll be off like Hagelin for Pearson. :scared:

Who are the 3 goalies under 25? (DeSmith is 27 :D )

I think if Murray were to stumble they have enough faith in DeSmith to play 50% of the games. Not sure if DeSmith can be the #1 for a full season.....but.....can Murray? Because with injury, he has yet to do it.


Oops, fixed it lol.

That's why I think they keep Jarry as long as possible. Both goalies are pretty good, but both haven't proven they can be long term starters in the league. I think DeSmith has shown enough to believe he can be a backup for awhile though. Every years it is "what if" with Murray and every year it gets asked over and over again.

I don't think he'll ever be Fleury, playing 60+ games, but he ought to be able to be counted on for 50 games and be available for 80-82 games. He's hit 45 and 47 games, but he still isn't available for 82.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:37 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:My point is, if you have a small chance that a drafted goalie works out why not simply not draft goalies. Then, when you need a goalie simply just offer a low draft pick for one that is good. Like some team will do for Jarry. If Jarry is an example of a goalie that *did* work out and we do not get back a 2nd round pick which is what we spent on him, why then would you draft a goalie to begin with?


In all fairness, when they drafted Jarry, did anyone see the Pens having 3 legit NHL goalies under the age of 25 at this point in time? Heck, the Pens might have more success with Jarry/DeSmith/Murray than any goalie they've developed of the past 30 years combined.

If Jarry is moved, and I still think Murray needs to prove he can be reliable long term, I think he'll be part of a huge trade and not a one for one deal. Of course, now that I say that, he'll be off like Hagelin for Pearson. :scared:

Who are the 3 goalies under 25? (DeSmith is 27 :D )

I think if Murray were to stumble they have enough faith in DeSmith to play 50% of the games. Not sure if DeSmith can be the #1 for a full season.....but.....can Murray? Because with injury, he has yet to do it.


Oops, fixed it lol.

That's why I think they keep Jarry as long as possible. Both goalies are pretty good, but both haven't proven they can be long term starters in the league. I think DeSmith has shown enough to believe he can be a backup for awhile though. Every years it is "what if" with Murray and every year it gets asked over and over again.

I don't think he'll ever be Fleury, playing 60+ games, but he ought to be able to be counted on for 50 games and be available for 80-82 games. He's hit 45 and 47 games, but he still isn't available for 82.

They won't have the luxury to keep all 3 with Jarry on a one-way deal and out of waiver options next year. Somebody has to go. They could still trade DeSmith, but honestly, I think DeSmith has played better, and Jarry hasn't progressed as much as they would have liked.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby DelPen on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:29 pm

Jarry has trade value. Not a high amount of value but we should get something decent for him along the lines of another prospect that might not be waiver exempt that a team has a surplus of but lack a young backup goalie.

Looking around the NHL, Chicago would work to replace Ward next year. Also the Canes, Habs, Bruins and Wings have some aging starters and not great backups. Any of those would be a good situation for Jarry.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:45 pm

Pettersson- 18 games, 6 points.
Sprong- 15 games, 6 points.
Who finishes the season with the most points for their new team?
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby DelPen on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:46 pm

ville5 wrote:Pettersson- 18 games, 6 points.
Sprong- 15 games, 6 points.
Who finishes the season with the most points for their new team?


Pettersson because he’s on the better team. Hopefully he starts playing with Schultz soon.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Daniel on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:My point is, if you have a small chance that a drafted goalie works out why not simply not draft goalies. Then, when you need a goalie simply just offer a low draft pick for one that is good. Like some team will do for Jarry. If Jarry is an example of a goalie that *did* work out and we do not get back a 2nd round pick which is what we spent on him, why then would you draft a goalie to begin with?


In all fairness, when they drafted Jarry, did anyone see the Pens having 3 legit NHL goalies under the age of 25 at this point in time? Heck, the Pens might have more success with Jarry/DeSmith/Murray than any goalie they've developed of the past 30 years combined.

If Jarry is moved, and I still think Murray needs to prove he can be reliable long term, I think he'll be part of a huge trade and not a one for one deal. Of course, now that I say that, he'll be off like Hagelin for Pearson. :scared:

Who are the 3 goalies under 25? (DeSmith is 27 :D )

I think if Murray were to stumble they have enough faith in DeSmith to play 50% of the games. Not sure if DeSmith can be the #1 for a full season.....but.....can Murray? Because with injury, he has yet to do it.


Oops, fixed it lol.

That's why I think they keep Jarry as long as possible. Both goalies are pretty good, but both haven't proven they can be long term starters in the league. I think DeSmith has shown enough to believe he can be a backup for awhile though. Every years it is "what if" with Murray and every year it gets asked over and over again.

I don't think he'll ever be Fleury, playing 60+ games, but he ought to be able to be counted on for 50 games and be available for 80-82 games. He's hit 45 and 47 games, but he still isn't available for 82.

They won't have the luxury to keep all 3 with Jarry on a one-way deal and out of waiver options next year. Somebody has to go. They could still trade DeSmith, but honestly, I think DeSmith has played better, and Jarry hasn't progressed as much as they would have liked.


I think it really depends on how sold they are with Murray's reliability. I think Murray and Jarry can be legit starting goalies, DeSmith would be a nice starter, but I don't think he's a long term solution.

If they think Murray can be available for over 75 games and give them 50, with DeSmith the rest, I think they trade Jarry like you said. However, if they're concerned that he'll be unreliable and injury prone, they might trade him or DeSmith, unless they think DeSmith can give them 40-50 games.

I think the team is in good shape for the next decade, though still a little concerned about Murray's injury history. I know his injuries tend to be fluky, but so were Beau Bennett's.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby THEREALpittsburghpenguins on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:10 am

Pettersson because he’s on the better team. Hopefully he starts playing with Schultz soon.[/quote]

Not sure why everyone is so dead set on breaking up the Petterson / Johnson pair. They are really good together. John hasn't been a minus player in 10 games. We are tearing apart the league and people want to change things. With how bad that johnson was at the beginning of the year, he's only a - 3 now. I hope they stay together. I think it's obvious that the rotation of oleksiak/riikkola will be the ones removed once Schultz returns. We will need them all cause we know that injuries will happen. I'm very happy with our overall D depth now.... Including Johnson.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby DelPen on Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:52 am

I break up any pairing with Johnson because Johnson is #9 on depth when everyone is healthy. He should not be a regular whenever Schultz is back.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby THEREALpittsburghpenguins on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:13 pm

DelPen wrote:I break up any pairing with Johnson because Johnson is #9 on depth when everyone is healthy. He should not be a regular whenever Schultz is back.


9th is laughable. I'd put him at 5 when everyone is healthy. Letang, dumo, Schultz, maatta and then Johnson. Petterson has been good so far but I'd put him behind Johnson. Obviously since riikkola and oleksiak keep rotating out of the lineup, they are below Johnson. Johnson is much higher regarded by Sullivan than most people think.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Hatrick on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:44 pm

THEREALpittsburghpenguins wrote:
DelPen wrote:I break up any pairing with Johnson because Johnson is #9 on depth when everyone is healthy. He should not be a regular whenever Schultz is back.


9th is laughable. I'd put him at 5 when everyone is healthy. Letang, dumo, Schultz, maatta and then Johnson. Petterson has been good so far but I'd put him behind Johnson. Obviously since riikkola and oleksiak keep rotating out of the lineup, they are below Johnson. Johnson is much higher regarded by Sullivan than most people think.

obviously he would never be 9th, he cant be sent down like a few of the other guys(if necessary, which im guessing one will be since cant really carry 9 guys so either trade or AHL for an extra guy). Petterson is newer so id probably say Sullivan does see Johnson as definitely above him, and since Johnson plays over either rikkola or Oleksiak he is currently above them as well(at least in Sullivans eye). So 5th is probably pretty accurate given al those circumstances.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:06 pm

I didn’t even know there was such a thing as 9th. Up until this season I thought 7th was the last one. HF has us trading for another defensemen evry day. So maybe 9th isn’t even last.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:57 pm

Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:22 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.


I'd add Coyle to that list too.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.


Don't want Athanasiou or Bennett.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:41 am

FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.



I would add Chris Tierney's name to that list. There were rumors the Pens were interested in him when he was a member of the Sharks. More of a Bonino type of 3C will play on the PK, reasonable on face-offs, and can produce some offense. Still signed for another year, so he's not a rental.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:56 am

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.

I would add Chris Tierney's name to that list. There were rumors the Pens were interested in him when he was a member of the Sharks. More of a Bonino type of 3C will play on the PK, reasonable on face-offs, and can produce some offense. Still signed for another year, so he's not a rental.

Yes, he would be a good add. A shade under 3M, 24 years old, signed for another year and RFA afterwards. He's not going to have the goal scoring ability of a Brassard, but he's good on the PK, good defensively, and can distribute the puck. If you aren't scoring, at least be able to setup your teammates.....Tierney can do that. He's got 23 assists on the year.

He checks a lot of boxes as well.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby KG on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:07 am

Mentioned him before but Jeff Carter could be someone of interest. Veteran, cup winner, can anchor the 3rd line center spot and play wing.

Cap hit would have to be figured out but the idea of a player like him I would think would interest the Pens.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:17 am

FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.

I would add Chris Tierney's name to that list. There were rumors the Pens were interested in him when he was a member of the Sharks. More of a Bonino type of 3C will play on the PK, reasonable on face-offs, and can produce some offense. Still signed for another year, so he's not a rental.

Yes, he would be a good add. A shade under 3M, 24 years old, signed for another year and RFA afterwards. He's not going to have the goal scoring ability of a Brassard, but he's good on the PK, good defensively, and can distribute the puck. If you aren't scoring, at least be able to setup your teammates.....Tierney can do that. He's got 23 assists on the year.

He checks a lot of boxes as well.



I think Danault from your original list is probably the best choice, again another Bonino type of guy who can PK, is good at face-offs, and with 23 assists he shows some ability to distribute the puck. Again neither Danault or Tierney are sexy names, but I think they check the required boxes.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:27 am

KG wrote:Mentioned him before but Jeff Carter could be someone of interest. Veteran, cup winner, can anchor the 3rd line center spot and play wing.

Cap hit would have to be figured out but the idea of a player like him I would think would interest the Pens.

I wouldn't want to go to the well twice. We tried taking a 2nd line center in Brassard, and making him a 3C. It didn't work. I'd prefer not to go down that route again. Carter is getting over 18 minutes a night as the 2nd line center, and has needed 18 minutes or just a shade under to put up the numbers he does for the past 10 plus years.

Brassard is currently getting under 15 minutes.....about 3 minutes less. For the cost in cap hit, cost to acquire, and Carter's age.....I'd probably rather roll the dice elsewhere.

Top end offensive 3C can put up about 50 points in 15 minutes of ice time. We don't need a top end guy (it would be nice though), but, I'm really hoping we get someone who is used to the minutes and role they would get here.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:32 am

KG wrote:Mentioned him before but Jeff Carter could be someone of interest. Veteran, cup winner, can anchor the 3rd line center spot and play wing.

Cap hit would have to be figured out but the idea of a player like him I would think would interest the Pens.


The problem with trying to acquire Carter is that you are going need the Kings to eat at least a couple of million of his salary in order to get him to work under the cap for next season. I also think we need to get rid of the concept of the dynamic 3rd line scoring center and go back to what worked when Bonino was on the team. Give me a guy who is good on the PK, reasonable of face-offs, and is at least average at distributing the puck to 81 on the third line.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Daniel on Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:34 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.

I would add Chris Tierney's name to that list. There were rumors the Pens were interested in him when he was a member of the Sharks. More of a Bonino type of 3C will play on the PK, reasonable on face-offs, and can produce some offense. Still signed for another year, so he's not a rental.

Yes, he would be a good add. A shade under 3M, 24 years old, signed for another year and RFA afterwards. He's not going to have the goal scoring ability of a Brassard, but he's good on the PK, good defensively, and can distribute the puck. If you aren't scoring, at least be able to setup your teammates.....Tierney can do that. He's got 23 assists on the year.

He checks a lot of boxes as well.


They kinda already have Chris Tierney in Riley Sheahan. I think he'd score more in a 3C position. Hard to score with Cullen and random other 4th line winger.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Was brought up in another thread, regarding moving Maatta. If the Penguins were to move Maatta, here's the types of players (3C) I'd be looking for in return. Other pieces could come to the Penguins or go out, depending on the deal.

BUF: Casey Middlestadt
CGY: Sam Bennett
COL: Alex Kerfoot
CBJ: Boone Jenner
DAL: Radek Faksa
DET: Andreas Athanasiou
LAK: Adrian Kempe
MTL: Phillip Danault

I don't think any of these guys are really available though, but, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Bozak. Would need a younger piece coming back.

I would add Chris Tierney's name to that list. There were rumors the Pens were interested in him when he was a member of the Sharks. More of a Bonino type of 3C will play on the PK, reasonable on face-offs, and can produce some offense. Still signed for another year, so he's not a rental.

Yes, he would be a good add. A shade under 3M, 24 years old, signed for another year and RFA afterwards. He's not going to have the goal scoring ability of a Brassard, but he's good on the PK, good defensively, and can distribute the puck. If you aren't scoring, at least be able to setup your teammates.....Tierney can do that. He's got 23 assists on the year.

He checks a lot of boxes as well.


They kinda already have Chris Tierney in Riley Sheahan. I think he'd score more in a 3C position. Hard to score with Cullen and random other 4th line winger.


If Rutherford & company thought Sheahan was a 3C on this team they never would have spent the assets to obtain Brassard. They need someone who can at least be average in distibuting the puck on the 3rd line to 81. I get that Sheahan has been stuck with some turds on the 4th line, but more than halfway through the season and he has two assists. You can't carry that kind of production on the third line.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby KG on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Bozak seems to make a lot of sense.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:24 pm

“By having Casey signed now, this gives us more options going forward, possibly even prior to the deadline,” Rutherford told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on Sunday. “I like the idea that we have some depth there, preparing for the playoffs, but sometimes something comes along that you have to consider and maybe do earlier than you want.”
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:25 pm

KG wrote:Mentioned him before but Jeff Carter could be someone of interest. Veteran, cup winner, can anchor the 3rd line center spot and play wing.

Cap hit would have to be figured out but the idea of a player like him I would think would interest the Pens.

There were rumors Carter would retire if traded from LA. Who knows if true or not.
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