Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:26 pm

stonewizard51 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:All things considered, no way the Pens are moving him and his contract in it's entirety. I think we're eating a million whether he's bought out or traded.


If they don't trade him or buy him out they're stuck with him for 4 more years at $3.25 mil/year so IMHO at this point to get his azz off the ice eating a million of his contract seems like a small price to pay. Why in the **** JR thought he was going to be the next best thing since sliced bread is beyond me.


This just goes to show, that just because a guy works in the NHL it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s smarter than everyone else and void of mistakes.

The data was out there to prove Johnson isn’t good. Many years of data stacked against him and yet Rutherford ignored it.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Pens4Life on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:06 pm

I really dont know what GMJR can do with Johnson and his contract.. its just painfull to think about 4more years of this.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby wondermoose on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:58 pm

Y'all are nuts if you think it's Rob Scud... I mean, JACK JOHNSON that is the root of the problem with this team. He's a weakness, sure, but he is not remotely the issue.

It's the forwards. Come on, you know it. When the Pens get scored on, it is always the man left open by a forward, or from a turnover at the blue line or with no one back (looking at you Geno). The defensive awareness just isn't there, and there are two big-minute lines that are completely and utterly lacking in it. It boggles the mind that Phil and Malkin are back together - the TEAM had so much success when they were apart. For all the gifts they have offensively, they just aren't good defensive players. I don't think it's a lack of trying - they just aren't good at it, and keeping them TOGETHER is just... I can't even. They get pinned in the defensive zone so easily because neither of them know who to cover or how to get the puck away from them. Then there is the third-line which just doesn't work at all the way it is set up right now. Brassard, Pearson, and Simon/Rust just aren't getting anything accomplished. Brassard-Phil-Simon was doing great work. Malkin-Pearson-Horny was doing great work. I don't understand why Phil and Malkin are back together again. Has never worked. Has never generated much 5v5.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:49 pm

wondermoose wrote:Y'all are nuts if you think it's Rob Scud... I mean, JACK JOHNSON that is the root of the problem with this team. He's a weakness, sure, but he is not remotely the issue.

It's the forwards. Come on, you know it. When the Pens get scored on, it is always the man left open by a forward, or from a turnover at the blue line or with no one back (looking at you Geno). The defensive awareness just isn't there, and there are two big-minute lines that are completely and utterly lacking in it. It boggles the mind that Phil and Malkin are back together - the TEAM had so much success when they were apart. For all the gifts they have offensively, they just aren't good defensive players. I don't think it's a lack of trying - they just aren't good at it, and keeping them TOGETHER is just... I can't even. They get pinned in the defensive zone so easily because neither of them know who to cover or how to get the puck away from them. Then there is the third-line which just doesn't work at all the way it is set up right now. Brassard, Pearson, and Simon/Rust just aren't getting anything accomplished. Brassard-Phil-Simon was doing great work. Malkin-Pearson-Horny was doing great work. I don't understand why Phil and Malkin are back together again. Has never worked. Has never generated much 5v5.


Malkin is in a funk, so HCMS is giving him what he wants which is Phil on his wing.

The bigger issue here is Malkin's funk. Hes still a PPG player but at -19 , geez.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:50 pm

A funk is putting it nicely. At -19 Malkin might be as big of an issue this season as Johnson.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:54 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
wondermoose wrote:Y'all are nuts if you think it's Rob Scud... I mean, JACK JOHNSON that is the root of the problem with this team. He's a weakness, sure, but he is not remotely the issue.

It's the forwards. Come on, you know it. When the Pens get scored on, it is always the man left open by a forward, or from a turnover at the blue line or with no one back (looking at you Geno). The defensive awareness just isn't there, and there are two big-minute lines that are completely and utterly lacking in it. It boggles the mind that Phil and Malkin are back together - the TEAM had so much success when they were apart. For all the gifts they have offensively, they just aren't good defensive players. I don't think it's a lack of trying - they just aren't good at it, and keeping them TOGETHER is just... I can't even. They get pinned in the defensive zone so easily because neither of them know who to cover or how to get the puck away from them. Then there is the third-line which just doesn't work at all the way it is set up right now. Brassard, Pearson, and Simon/Rust just aren't getting anything accomplished. Brassard-Phil-Simon was doing great work. Malkin-Pearson-Horny was doing great work. I don't understand why Phil and Malkin are back together again. Has never worked. Has never generated much 5v5.


Malkin is in a funk, so HCMS is giving him what he wants which is Phil on his wing.

The bigger issue here is Malkin's funk. Hes still a PPG player but at -19 , geez.

Malkin is fourth worst player in the league in plus/minus. The Penguins have a plus 23 goal differential.
All 3 players that are worse than Malkin play on Florida (Barkov, Huberdeau, Matheson). Florida has a -22 goal differential.

Malkin's offense has picked up, but, the defensive lapses need correcting. They need to figure something out to get through to him.

Jack Johnson's game can be described as hills and ravines (not peaks and valleys).....small runs of slightly above average play, followed by huge cataclysmic drop-offs in play.

Derick Brassard's last even strength assist was on December 6th....to Kris Letang.
Brassard's last even strength assist to a winger on his line was OCTOBER 25th.....in a 9-1 rout of Calgary, Brassard had 3 assists. 2 of those 3 assists (the ones to the wingers) were 2nd assists. His primary assist in that game was Jack Johnson.

I am going on record to state that, if the Penguins don't move Brassard, and are not willing to even consider the notion of dressing 6 defense without Jack Johnson, they will not go past the 2nd round in the playoffs.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Riikola

Try that setup for 5 games or more when Schultz returns. They won't, and it may very well be their downfall. Fingers crossed Rutherford pulls the the trigger. Trades won't solve everything, but it is a start. Management needs to stop pretending their **** players don't smell like ****.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby wondermoose on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:01 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
wondermoose wrote:Y'all are nuts if you think it's Rob Scud... I mean, JACK JOHNSON that is the root of the problem with this team. He's a weakness, sure, but he is not remotely the issue.

It's the forwards. Come on, you know it. When the Pens get scored on, it is always the man left open by a forward, or from a turnover at the blue line or with no one back (looking at you Geno). The defensive awareness just isn't there, and there are two big-minute lines that are completely and utterly lacking in it. It boggles the mind that Phil and Malkin are back together - the TEAM had so much success when they were apart. For all the gifts they have offensively, they just aren't good defensive players. I don't think it's a lack of trying - they just aren't good at it, and keeping them TOGETHER is just... I can't even. They get pinned in the defensive zone so easily because neither of them know who to cover or how to get the puck away from them. Then there is the third-line which just doesn't work at all the way it is set up right now. Brassard, Pearson, and Simon/Rust just aren't getting anything accomplished. Brassard-Phil-Simon was doing great work. Malkin-Pearson-Horny was doing great work. I don't understand why Phil and Malkin are back together again. Has never worked. Has never generated much 5v5.


Malkin is in a funk, so HCMS is giving him what he wants which is Phil on his wing.

The bigger issue here is Malkin's funk. Hes still a PPG player but at -19 , geez.

Malkin is fourth worst player in the league in plus/minus. The Penguins have a plus 23 goal differential.
All 3 players that are worse than Malkin play on Florida (Barkov, Huberdeau, Matheson). Florida has a -22 goal differential.

Malkin's offense has picked up, but, the defensive lapses need correcting. They need to figure something out to get through to him.

Jack Johnson's game can be described as hills and ravines (not peaks and valleys).....small runs of slightly above average play, followed by huge cataclysmic drop-offs in play.

Derick Brassard's last even strength assist was on December 6th....to Kris Letang.
Brassard's last even strength assist to a winger on his line was OCTOBER 25th.....in a 9-1 rout of Calgary, Brassard had 3 assists. 2 of those 3 assists (the ones to the wingers) were 2nd assists. His primary assist in that game was Jack Johnson.

I am going on record to state that, if the Penguins don't move Brassard, and are not willing to even consider the notion of dressing 6 defense without Jack Johnson, they will not go past the 2nd round in the playoffs.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Riikola

Try that setup for 5 games or more when Schultz returns. They won't, and it may very well be their downfall. Fingers crossed Rutherford pulls the the trigger. Trades won't solve everything, but it is a start. Management needs to stop pretending their **** players don't smell like ****.


I love the idea of Pettersson with Schultz and leave the Fins alone. Johnson as a 7th man is fine.

Trade Brass for someone closer to what Bonino does to play with Phil and just hope that Malkin pulls himself out of the hole.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Report is Ottawa has offered Matt Duchene 8 years, 8M per year.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:31 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Report is Ottawa has offered Matt Duchene 8 years, 8M per year.


For a guy that has a total of one 70 point season in his career I doubt that Duchene will get more than that in free agency. The question is whether he wants to stay with that organization which is far away from winning a cup.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby wondermoose on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:34 pm

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Report is Ottawa has offered Matt Duchene 8 years, 8M per year.


For a guy that has a total of one 70 point season in his career I doubt that Duchene will get more than that in free agency. The question is whether he wants to stay with that organization which is far away from winning a cup.


Being far from the Cup is one thing. Signing for 8 years for a team that is constantly embarrassing themselves, their city, and the NHL is something completely else. No way he stays there. No way.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:01 pm

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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:03 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
stonewizard51 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:All things considered, no way the Pens are moving him and his contract in it's entirety. I think we're eating a million whether he's bought out or traded.


If they don't trade him or buy him out they're stuck with him for 4 more years at $3.25 mil/year so IMHO at this point to get his azz off the ice eating a million of his contract seems like a small price to pay. Why in the **** JR thought he was going to be the next best thing since sliced bread is beyond me.


This just goes to show, that just because a guy works in the NHL it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s smarter than everyone else and void of mistakes.

The data was out there to prove Johnson isn’t good. Many years of data stacked against him and yet Rutherford ignored it.


Or, like acquiring Reaves, the was more behind the acquisition than message board posters can conceptualize.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:05 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Jack Johnson's game can be described as hills and ravines (not peaks and valleys).....small runs of slightly above average play, followed by huge cataclysmic drop-offs in play.


Sounds a lot like someone's posting habits concerning Jack Johnson.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Southern Fan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:27 pm

Seems like the fate of the franchise shouldn’t be impacted by who your 5/6 defenseman is. A lot more worried last year when Letang was not right.

Also, was more worried when Murray was off his game earlier this year.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:56 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Jack Johnson's game can be described as hills and ravines (not peaks and valleys).....small runs of slightly above average play, followed by huge cataclysmic drop-offs in play.


Sounds a lot like someone's posting habits concerning Jack Johnson.

Just sounding off like the player plays, and owning up to whatever I post. Johnson started off bad. I started a post about offense from defense, pointing out he was bad, and, through further investigation, found that he was pretty good lately. But, now he's back to bad.

So, to summarize.....October, November, and January Jack Johnson was pretty bad. For the month of December, he fooled a lot of people into thinking he was good or turning the corner.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:12 pm

Southern Fan wrote:Seems like the fate of the franchise shouldn’t be impacted by who your 5/6 defenseman is. A lot more worried last year when Letang was not right.

Also, was more worried when Murray was off his game earlier this year.

When the team keeps trotting him out there like nothing is wrong. I hold out hope that JJ could have some value against a heavier team in the playoffs, but his regular season mistakes could end up proving more costly.

October: 10 games, 13 goals against at even strength. SF% of 44, HDCF% of 42.19%
November: 9 games, 11 goals against at even strength. SF% of 42.66, HDCF% of 45.65%
December: 15 games, 5 goals against at even strength. SF% of 42.75%, HDCF% 50.49%
January: 9 games to date, 12 goals against at even strength. SF% 52.17%, HDCF% 55.07%

October, 13 was most goals given up by Pens defenseman, and he gets less time than Dumo/Letang.
January, 12 goals is tied with Letang, but again, he gets less TOI than Letang

I'm too lazy right now to bother with GA/60, but, it's typically higher than the rest of the regular defenseman.....certainly higher than guys like Riikola and Oleksiak, who have found their way to the bench.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby tman1737 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:15 pm

Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:21 pm

tman1737 wrote:Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??

Why would they want our nacho king for their top 4?
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:56 pm

ville5 wrote:
tman1737 wrote:Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??

Why would they want our nacho king for their top 4?

Yeah, Toronto looking for top 4 RH d-man. As soon as you say top 4, you can rule out Ruhwedel. Also, don't think they want to give up Kadri to do it. More likely Hyman, Johanssen, or Kapanen and a pick to get it.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:03 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
tman1737 wrote:Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??

Why would they want our nacho king for their top 4?

Yeah, Toronto looking for top 4 RH d-man. As soon as you say top 4, you can rule out Ruhwedel. Also, don't think they want to give up Kadri to do it. More likely Hyman, Johanssen, or Kapanen and a pick to get it.

I could see Kap plus for Muzz or Martinez
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:33 pm

ville5 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
tman1737 wrote:Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??

Why would they want our nacho king for their top 4?

Yeah, Toronto looking for top 4 RH d-man. As soon as you say top 4, you can rule out Ruhwedel. Also, don't think they want to give up Kadri to do it. More likely Hyman, Johanssen, or Kapanen and a pick to get it.

I could see Kap plus for Muzz or Martinez

Muzzin is LD and Martinez is 31. If they get a d-man, I think they'll want a younger RH RD.

I'm expecting Toronto to be all over Dougie Hamilton or Justin Faulk. Both RD, 25 and 26 years old, with 2 years and 1 year term respectively after this year. Kapanen and a 1st for either of them gets it done if I'm Carolina.

Kapanen, Aho, Svechnikov, Teravainen,Niederreiter would be good to build around. They just need to get a couple of relatively young centers and better goaltending, and lookout.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:39 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
tman1737 wrote:Just spitballing here. Toronto is looking 4 a RH defenseman. Contingent on moving Brassard, what would it take to acquire Kadri? Ruhwedle + Jarry??

Why would they want our nacho king for their top 4?

Yeah, Toronto looking for top 4 RH d-man. As soon as you say top 4, you can rule out Ruhwedel. Also, don't think they want to give up Kadri to do it. More likely Hyman, Johanssen, or Kapanen and a pick to get it.

I could see Kap plus for Muzz or Martinez

Muzzin is LD and Martinez is 31. If they get a d-man, I think they'll want a younger RH RD.

I'm expecting Toronto to be all over Dougie Hamilton or Justin Faulk. Both RD, 25 and 26 years old, with 2 years and 1 year term respectively after this year. Kapanen and a 1st for either of them gets it done if I'm Carolina.

Kapanen, Aho, Svechnikov, Teravainen,Niederreiter would be good to build around. They just need to get a couple of relatively young centers and better goaltending, and lookout.


Getting the centers will not be that easy. Not sure what kind of center prospects they have in their organization.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Jim on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:46 pm

If the Pens move Brassard, what are they going to do for a 3C? If you ate thinking about typing "Sheahan" stab yourself in the eye with a fork first.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:55 pm

Jim wrote:If the Pens move Brassard, what are they going to do for a 3C? If you ate thinking about typing "Sheahan" stab yourself in the eye with a fork first.


A spoon would hurt more cus.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:55 pm

They probably need to make a couple of moves, get a pick for Brassard and use that pick and another asset for the 3C. Sounds easy on a message board, will see if Rutherford can pull it off.
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