Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby nastystang05 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:00 pm

For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:05 pm

nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.

Quite honestly, I think the situation is magnified by the Hunwick situation of last year. Not saying Johnson does or does not deserve the criticism, but, GMJR swung and missed with Hunwick last year. Early indications are he's going to swing and miss again, just based on the data out there.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby nastystang05 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:09 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.

Quite honestly, I think the situation is magnified by the Hunwick situation of last year. Not saying Johnson does or does not deserve the criticism, but, GMJR swung and missed with Hunwick last year. Early indications are he's going to swing and miss again, just based on the data out there.

I get that but since when do we as a people let other make our opinion for us. Maybe I was raised differently but dag on this is just crazy. If he sucks we'll get rid of him. If he does great wonderful.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:11 pm

Here are some thoughts and info from Twitter on Jack Johnson. I realize some may not have twitter, so I'll cut and paste and include the charts.

During the season I wrote about Sergei Gonchar's work with Penguins reclamation projects on defense and I'm already regretting that because now it's forever lumped in with a storyline that's become horribly overblown, especially in the wake of the *potential* Jack Johnson news...

Anyway, it’s not about taking bad players and magically making them better. It was about spending minimal assets on still somewhat young, talented players stuck in tough spots, putting them in a better spot, and making them marginally better.

Schultz improved. The jury is still out on Oleksiak. Daley played in Pittsburgh exactly like he played in Dallas. They weren’t making a significant investment in those rolls of the dice. They weren’t 32 year old players with a decade long track record of being ... bad.

I’ve read all the defenses. They all say the same thing. Better team. Gonchar will fix him. Rutherford is okay with it so it must be good. No tangible reasons why any of that is possible except pointing to Justin Schultz. This ain’t Justin schultz, friends.

During his career every team Johnson has played for has been significantly worse from a goals and shots perspective with him on the ice as opposed to him off of it.

Image


There’s a few playoff teams on there. There’s a damn *Stanley Cup winning team* on that list (a team that traded Johnson 3/4 of the way through the season and immediately became significantly better after the trade). Look at all that red.

But, hey, Justin Schultz was terrible in Edmonton, too, right? Well let’s look at Schultz’s impact on the Oilers. He had a bad rookie year. His overall numbers were … very meh. But in his last two years there were areas they were better with him on the ice.

Image

He was a talented player that had shown flashes of being ... okay ... that was really, truly stuck in a terrible spot on a terrible team run by terrible hockey people.

But hey, maybe they can shelter Johnson, too, and put him into more favorable spots and help *him* out.

Okay. How?

You're already sheltering Schultz and Oleksiak. How many defensemen can you hide on one team and put them into more favorable situations?

The Penguins absolutely need to upgrade their third pairing on defense. But If your plan is to use him as a third-pairing defenseman ... who signs a third-pairing defenseman for five years? Through their age 37 season?

In the end my biggest beef is just the general laziness in automatically thinking the Penguins stumbled upon some secret formula to fix every defenseman that struggles (they didn't fix Matt Hunwick, which no one mentions) and the appeal to authority of "well if GMJR likes it..."



Can't argue with much here, well thought out and a bunch of points reiterated that many on here have also stated. The proof is out there, the guy is not a good defenseman, nor does he make his teams better. He doesn't add anything offensively even though some on here have said that he's above average offensively. He couldn't even beat out guys like Orpik or Polak or Gorges in terms of 5v5 points per 60.

You don't sign 31 year olds like this to 5 year contracts to be a bottom pairing guy. If anything, you give him a 1-2 year contract to prove himself and see if you can fix him. I love the "well if GMJR likes it..." LOL. GMJR also liked Hunwick, Perron, and Reaves. He's not perfect and void of mistakes.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:12 pm

nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


This negativity is largely based on the fact that A) he's sucked for over a decade and B) that it's apparently a 5 year contract.

You don't give guys like this 5 year contracts. See above why.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby nastystang05 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:28 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


This negativity is largely based on the fact that A) he's sucked for over a decade and B) that it's apparently a 5 year contract.

You don't give guys like this 5 year contracts. See above why.

No one is untradable see flipping Rob Scuderi. People are acting like GMJR has injected the team with Ebola. Again, let the guy play and then draw your advanced statistics and eye tests. If he sucks great all the BIG Uber successful bloggers we're right and you ship his rear out of here. If not eat some big black Crow.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby nastystang05 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:29 pm

Just a reminder. He is NOT a member of this team yet. He could still sign somewhere else.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby KG on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:40 pm

What’s the point of posting about how bad a player is according to stats? Seems like people don’t want him to succeed. If he’s part of the team and he does in fact sign here, don’t we want him to be a good player and turn things around here?

I just don’t understand the negativity. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player destroyed by some members of this board before so much.

Ryan Wilson at hockeybuzz is acting like someone kicked his puppy. Take a step back....We are complaining about Jack Johnson who may be our 6th defenseman! How far we have come to finding things to complain about...we have the best center depth and offense in the league. We have one of the best young goalies in the league and we are a perennial cup contender...some of this fan base don’t remember the Rico Fata days!
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:42 pm

nastystang05 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


This negativity is largely based on the fact that A) he's sucked for over a decade and B) that it's apparently a 5 year contract.

You don't give guys like this 5 year contracts. See above why.

No one is untradable see flipping Rob Scuderi. People are acting like GMJR has injected the team with Ebola. Again, let the guy play and then draw your advanced statistics and eye tests. If he sucks great all the BIG Uber successful bloggers we're right and you ship his rear out of here. If not eat some big black Crow.


So you’re banking on the fact that bad players were moved before and could easily be moved again....

But others aren’t allowed to bank on the fact that a player has stunk for 10+ years?

Everyone says give him a chance and he might not stink here. As I’ve said before, I’d be willing for the right price, but not the rumoured 5 years. That’s the horrible part.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Badger Bob on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:43 pm

Gonch is the Johnson Whisperer!!!! He will fix him!!!! Have no fear!!!
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:44 pm

nastystang05 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.

Quite honestly, I think the situation is magnified by the Hunwick situation of last year. Not saying Johnson does or does not deserve the criticism, but, GMJR swung and missed with Hunwick last year. Early indications are he's going to swing and miss again, just based on the data out there.

I get that but since when do we as a people let other make our opinion for us. Maybe I was raised differently but dag on this is just crazy. If he sucks we'll get rid of him. If he does great wonderful.


Couple things here:

No one is making our opinion for us, we are analyzing data.
How we were all raised has nothing to do with reviewing multiple forms of stats and forming an opinion.
Simply saying if he sucks we will get rid of him is much easier said than done. We had to throw in a solid forward to get rid of Hunwick.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:49 pm

KG wrote:What’s the point of posting about how bad a player is according to stats? Seems like people don’t want him to succeed. If he’s part of the team and he does in fact sign here, don’t we want him to be a good player and turn things around here?

I just don’t understand the negativity. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player destroyed by some members of this board before so much.

Ryan Wilson at hockeybuzz is acting like someone kicked his puppy. Take a step back....We are complaining about Jack Johnson who may be our 6th defenseman! How far we have come to finding things to complain about...we have the best center depth and offense in the league. We have one of the best young goalies in the league and we are a perennial cup contender...some of this fan base don’t remember the Rico Fata days!


What I’m complaining about is that he’s got a boatload of history that shows he’s not good. Signing a not good player with a history to a 5 year contract isn’t smart. Of course I’d want him to succeed if he’s here, but his history shows that teams are better without him.

I don’t understand how people can sit there and say this is a good move to sign him to 5 years. 1-2 max to see if you can fix him or improve him. The people that are all rainbows and puppies about this clearly haven’t watched him play. It’s apparent. And you couldn’t watch him play last year because he was a healthy scratch. And don’t blame Torts. He stripped Dubinsky of the A and gave it to Johnson!
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby KG on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Ha I hear you murph. Your vote has been cast that you’re not on board with this signing! :)
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:53 pm

Maybe if Sid wants a friend on the team we can get McKinnon or Marchand instead
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby scpensfan on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:27 pm

I'm going to choose to hope that the "5-year-contract" is really something like 2 years, with 3 team or mutual options tacked on to the back end.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:43 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Maybe if Sid wants a friend on the team we can get McKinnon or Marchand instead


No thanks on the dude that licks other dudes.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Gunnerfan on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:45 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
KG wrote:What’s the point of posting about how bad a player is according to stats? Seems like people don’t want him to succeed. If he’s part of the team and he does in fact sign here, don’t we want him to be a good player and turn things around here?

I just don’t understand the negativity. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player destroyed by some members of this board before so much.

Ryan Wilson at hockeybuzz is acting like someone kicked his puppy. Take a step back....We are complaining about Jack Johnson who may be our 6th defenseman! How far we have come to finding things to complain about...we have the best center depth and offense in the league. We have one of the best young goalies in the league and we are a perennial cup contender...some of this fan base don’t remember the Rico Fata days!


What I’m complaining about is that he’s got a boatload of history that shows he’s not good. Signing a not good player with a history to a 5 year contract isn’t smart. Of course I’d want him to succeed if he’s here, but his history shows that teams are better without him.

I don’t understand how people can sit there and say this is a good move to sign him to 5 years. 1-2 max to see if you can fix him or improve him. The people that are all rainbows and puppies about this clearly haven’t watched him play. It’s apparent. And you couldn’t watch him play last year because he was a healthy scratch. And don’t blame Torts. He stripped Dubinsky of the A and gave it to Johnson!


Jack Johnson steal your girl holmes? That's a ton of passion.... wasted on a freaking player who gives 2 $#% about you or your opinion. We get it you hate the signing. And I also get you'll responded to this because you can't help yourself. Go ahead and prove us wrong. We are paying that you do.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:58 pm

nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


20 games? How about letting some ink actually hit paper first...
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby pens2005 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:04 pm

Jim wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


20 games? How about letting some ink actually hit paper first...


Aren't you one of the ones totally bashing the signing?
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:34 pm

pens2005 wrote:
Jim wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


20 games? How about letting some ink actually hit paper first...


Aren't you one of the ones totally bashing the signing?


Nope.

I haven't said a single negative thing about Johnson, nothing.

And, um, there has not been a signing yet. Maybe once there is an actual contract with actual $ and actual years there will be something to say...

Baaaaa
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Jim wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
Jim wrote:
nastystang05 wrote:For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


20 games? How about letting some ink actually hit paper first...


Aren't you one of the ones totally bashing the signing?


Nope.

I haven't said a single negative thing about Johnson, nothing.

And, um, there has not been a signing yet. Maybe once there is an actual contract with actual $ and actual years there will be something to say...

Baaaaa


It’s a message board meant for discussion. You’re allowed to discuss pros and cons of possibilities.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:10 pm

murphydump55 wrote:It’s a message board meant for discussion. You’re allowed to discuss pros and cons of possibilities.


Agree. But that's not how this specific topic is being discussed hence people commenting on the commenting. ... and people commenting on the commenting on the commenting...
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:24 pm

Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:It’s a message board meant for discussion. You’re allowed to discuss pros and cons of possibilities.


Agree. But that's not how this specific topic is being discussed hence people commenting on the commenting. ... and people commenting on the commenting on the commenting...


It’s about Jack Johnson. Stick to the topic please.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:54 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:It’s a message board meant for discussion. You’re allowed to discuss pros and cons of possibilities.


Agree. But that's not how this specific topic is being discussed hence people commenting on the commenting. ... and people commenting on the commenting on the commenting...


It’s about Jack Johnson. Stick to the topic please.


Um... I'll comment on what I want how I want when I want.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby ville5 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:56 pm

There's a jack johnson thread for this.
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