Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby ville5 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:31 pm

Badamski9 wrote:I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.

First time he flattens Tom Wilson, he will be worth every ounce of that contract in my book.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:12 pm

Badamski9 wrote:I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.


Stats don’t lie. Eye test can be misleading and the numbers make you realize that recency bias can be a nasty thing going both ways, good and bad.

Saying you think he’ll be good because of his “talent” doesn’t say much. He’s had this “talent” since 2007 and has had 1 good year. Oh I forgot about the miracle worker Gonchar. The guy that certainly didn’t fix Hunwick? The guy that didn’t fix Daley in his second year when he wasn’t very good. Jury is still out on Oleksiak. People still crab and complain about Maatta, yet Gonchar works with him too. Letang can be downright awful and was all year and has been bad at times in the past too. Schultz wasn’t awful in Edmonton, good things happened with him on the ice. Getting him away from that team and deploying him properly did wonders. Moving Daley back to his proper side was an easy fix that Chicago couldn’t accommodate.

I’m not discounting Gonchar by any means, just saying that it’s not like we have some crazy “fix” here that is guaranteed to work. They’ve taken a few and definitely improved their play by proper usage and some coaching, but there’s also some that didn’t work. Zero guarantees Johnson gets fixed here.

I’m hoping he does get some kind of game here, but nobody can sit there and ignore an extremely large amount of data that says his teams are better with him off the ice. This wasn’t just a season here and there, it’s his whole career and he’s 31 now! For crying out loud the Kings got better after dealing him away 3/4 of the way through the year and won the Cup! They also had to tack on a first round pick with Johnson to get Jeff Carter.

I hope he works out here, even on the bottom pairing. If he somehow stays above water in the top 4 he’ll be a great deal. Doing that for 5 years at 31 after a struggling career might be far fetched, but we can hope. To say you think he’ll be good because of his “talent” is pretty broad, and well, that talent hasn’t done much since 2007. And no I won’t blame Torts, he’s had a lot of coaches over the years that couldn’t fix him.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Antonio on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:01 pm

Yeah frankly I have ZERO understanding of what the team sees that they felt the AAV and the absurd 5 years they gave him was a good idea. I mean, I am literally baffled.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:53 pm

Antonio wrote:Yeah frankly I have ZERO understanding of what the team sees that they felt the AAV and the absurd 5 years they gave him was a good idea. I mean, I am literally baffled.


I guess he’s talented? Even though he hasn’t been in 13 years.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby no name on Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 am

Daniel wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Why will he be good here? Because he's had 12 bad seasons out of 13? Because he fails the eye test and also fails the numbers test? Because he makes horrible reads? Because he gets turned around constantly by fast forwards? Because he has a tendency to get lost in the defensive zone?

GMJR and Sullivan aren't without their mistakes, they aren't perfect. Heck Hunwick was horrible, Perron wasn't great, McKegg was awful, Rowney was terrible, the benching of Cole, etc.

Some on here posted his "good" advanced stats. That good advanced stat? He was a top passing dman. I believe it was Jesse Marshall that spoke about this saying that it seemed like most passes Johnson completed were 10 foot passes. Their forwards came down extremely deep.

If you had some substance behind your argument maybe I'd agree or take it seriously, but to say he's better than Hunwick and will be good here? Wow, that's deep thinking.


All those arguments are great, but they all discount one thing........GONCHAR!!! :scared: :fist:

Seriously, I hope they're right about seeing something in his game they can fix. Hopefully most of Johnson's issues are his draft status, meaning that people think if you're a number 3 pick that you have to play top minutes whether you can or not. Or that it was the money issues and everything in his life but his talent. Because if his issues are talent only, we're in a for a long 5 years.


I am not putting anything by Sully, Jimmy and Gonch. Daley was benched in Chi, before we got him. Schultz was playing minimal minutes in Edm before we got him. Oleksiak was not playing in Dallas when we got him. These Throw away pieces we picked up for minimal cost has all panned out rather well for us. If our brass thinks this guy can play in our system. I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Yes they have made mistakes in the past, but we will have to wait for the regular season to see if this is one of them. I am one of the doubters that he will pan out, but I am still going to give it time and wait and see. I am hoping a new team and having his old buddy with him as well as a winning environment boosts him. I am not expecting Bobby Orr reborn or the snarl of a Ken Danyko. Just a guy who can move the puck up ice.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Hatrick on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:20 am

Badamski9 wrote:I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.

if he ends up being a good top 4 defesenman 3.25 is pretty good, but right now we have no reason to expect him to be that. He should be seen as a 6th defenseman until proven he can be better, in which case 3.25 is an overpay.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:40 am

murphydump55 wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.


Stats don’t lie. Eye test can be misleading and the numbers make you realize that recency bias can be a nasty thing going both ways, good and bad.


Interpretations lie consistently, especially narrow ones -- Isn't recency bias one way that stats CAN lie? JJ was bad last year, so he must be bad.

Another example is assuming that all things are equal but the stats you are viewing. CBJ is a classic Tortorella team -- They win games situationally, but are not disciplined on either end of the ice and are prone to break-downs-- They could be -20 or more goal differential and give teams like the Pens fits. In 2016-17 JJ was crushing Metro teams and still had a -rel CF%. So, they may not be a statistically pleasing team for 82 games plus playoffs each year, but that doesn't mean their players aren't capable of delivering better results elsewhere.

Full picture, the guy could be an absolute steal or he could be a tough contract to handle -- and frankly, could be both inside of the 5 years we signed him for.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:34 pm



I like the way that looks... but if he DARES to play physical you know Sullivan is going to bench him.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:12 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.


Stats don’t lie. Eye test can be misleading and the numbers make you realize that recency bias can be a nasty thing going both ways, good and bad.


Interpretations lie consistently, especially narrow ones -- Isn't recency bias one way that stats CAN lie? JJ was bad last year, so he must be bad.

Another example is assuming that all things are equal but the stats you are viewing. CBJ is a classic Tortorella team -- They win games situationally, but are not disciplined on either end of the ice and are prone to break-downs-- They could be -20 or more goal differential and give teams like the Pens fits. In 2016-17 JJ was crushing Metro teams and still had a -rel CF%. So, they may not be a statistically pleasing team for 82 games plus playoffs each year, but that doesn't mean their players aren't capable of delivering better results elsewhere.

Full picture, the guy could be an absolute steal or he could be a tough contract to handle -- and frankly, could be both inside of the 5 years we signed him for.


I agree for the most part with your post except about recency bias. That is more geared towards events that have happened recently and not the numbers end of things. People’s opinions get blurred by recent things they’ve seen and they forget about the things that have historically happened.

You stated that Johnson was bad last year so he must be bad. The inverse is actually true haha. JJ had that one good year so he must be good. When he’s actually been bad for 95% of his career.

Relative CF shows how said player measures against the rest of the team when he isn’t on the ice. If he’s a negative it shows that the team drives possession better when he’s not on the ice. Having a negative relative CF doesn’t do anything to project a player being better elsewhere. If a team is a bad possession team overall, then most players will have poor possession numbers, this is where RelCF comes in handy. JJ fails that test consistently.

I hope he works out. A new start, possible sheltering, etc could help him and I hope it does because he’s here for 5 years like you said. I don’t like the addition and don’t like the term but you’re right, he could end up a steal. Here’s hoping.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby stonewizard51 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:15 am

I like Sarge a lot but, IMHO, he has a year, maybe two at best, to get 10 years of bad habits out of JJ for this to be a good deal. I'm not sure that's possible. However, I hope I eat those words and JJ in the next best thing since sliced bread.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Great58 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:53 am

Jim wrote:


I like the way that looks... but if he DARES to play physical you know Sullivan is going to bench him.

If he takes bad penalties or makes bad exit decisions, he'll be benched. I see JJ as a bit of a lateral move from Ian Cole overall, with his greatest strength having been Coles greatest weakness, his decision making on the breakout.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby longtimefan on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 am

murphydump55 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:

Relative CF shows how said player measures against the rest of the team when he isn’t on the ice. If he’s a negative it shows that the team drives possession better when he’s not on the ice. Having a negative relative CF doesn’t do anything to project a player being better elsewhere. If a team is a bad possession team overall, then most players will have poor possession numbers, this is where RelCF comes in handy. JJ fails that test consistently.

I hope he works out. A new start, possible sheltering, etc could help him and I hope it does because he’s here for 5 years like you said. I don’t like the addition and don’t like the term but you’re right, he could end up a steal. Here’s hoping.


I've watched the Pens for 50 years, and the advanced stats are still relatively new. I've probably been pretty thick headed at times in recognizing them. I've come around, and see their merit. It allows the once unmeasurable to become measurable. They are an incredible improvement on the old +/- stat. The more I learn about them, the more I understand them and appreciate them. But also see many of the same concerns as the +/- stat, just more advanced. It still is limited to performance within a single team, with that team's personnel. The game is still played by human beings, who react differently in different situations, playing with different players. So it discounts the human element. They also can be misleading in many ways.

Player A- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -8.3 16-17: -7.6 15-16: -9.6 Cumulative career total with prior team: -7.2
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html

Player B- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -11.1 16-17: -7.5 15-16 -3.3 Cumulative career total with prior team: -4.8
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html


These were based on all situations, not just 5 on 5.
The first one is Ian Cole as a Pen, the second JJ as a BJ. Neither puts up good numbers. Both are downright ugly. But I saw a lot of value in Ian Cole. No one brings his name up when discussing dmen the Pens helped turn around. Remember how badly he struggled in St L before the trade? Although he was a -1.5 during his time in St L.

It seems that JJ has joined Letang as the whipping boys right now. The other curious thing is that Letang seems to be an analytics darling. I guess you can paint any argument you want. Ultimately, the success of the team will determine the perception of the player. Cole will always be a hero. If JJ plays a comparable role and the team wins the Cup, I suspect a lot of perceptions will change about him as well.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Owchar76 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:30 pm

longtimefan wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:

Relative CF shows how said player measures against the rest of the team when he isn’t on the ice. If he’s a negative it shows that the team drives possession better when he’s not on the ice. Having a negative relative CF doesn’t do anything to project a player being better elsewhere. If a team is a bad possession team overall, then most players will have poor possession numbers, this is where RelCF comes in handy. JJ fails that test consistently.

I hope he works out. A new start, possible sheltering, etc could help him and I hope it does because he’s here for 5 years like you said. I don’t like the addition and don’t like the term but you’re right, he could end up a steal. Here’s hoping.


I've watched the Pens for 50 years, and the advanced stats are still relatively new. I've probably been pretty thick headed at times in recognizing them. I've come around, and see their merit. It allows the once unmeasurable to become measurable. They are an incredible improvement on the old +/- stat. The more I learn about them, the more I understand them and appreciate them. But also see many of the same concerns as the +/- stat, just more advanced. It still is limited to performance within a single team, with that team's personnel. The game is still played by human beings, who react differently in different situations, playing with different players. So it discounts the human element. They also can be misleading in many ways.

Player A- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -8.3 16-17: -7.6 15-16: -9.6 Cumulative career total with prior team: -7.2
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html

Player B- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -11.1 16-17: -7.5 15-16 -3.3 Cumulative career total with prior team: -4.8
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html


These were based on all situations, not just 5 on 5.
The first one is Ian Cole as a Pen, the second JJ as a BJ. Neither puts up good numbers. Both are downright ugly. But I saw a lot of value in Ian Cole. No one brings his name up when discussing dmen the Pens helped turn around. Remember how badly he struggled in St L before the trade? Although he was a -1.5 during his time in St L.

It seems that JJ has joined Letang as the whipping boys right now. The other curious thing is that Letang seems to be an analytics darling. I guess you can paint any argument you want. Ultimately, the success of the team will determine the perception of the player. Cole will always be a hero. If JJ plays a comparable role and the team wins the Cup, I suspect a lot of perceptions will change about him as well.


Using stats for all situations is the first mistake. These stats can be thrown out the window as one player could be used primarily on the PK while the other is used mostly on the PP. Numbers would then be skewed. The numbers you stated above are based on all situations and therefore aren't a good indicator.

At least the relative CF stat gives you an idea of how the team fares with that player on/off the ice. It can tell you to what extent the player is either being an anchor or driving possession. -1.5 isn't horrible as that player is pretty close to the rest of the team in terms of possession when on the ice. -11 on the other hand is really bad and shows what an anchor that player is.

The other thing that can help, is remembering score effects and how they could have a pretty big impact on numbers. Using "close" numbers might give one a better idea of how said player is performing.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:04 pm

Owchar76 wrote:
longtimefan wrote:I've watched the Pens for 50 years, and the advanced stats are still relatively new. I've probably been pretty thick headed at times in recognizing them. I've come around, and see their merit. It allows the once unmeasurable to become measurable. They are an incredible improvement on the old +/- stat. The more I learn about them, the more I understand them and appreciate them. But also see many of the same concerns as the +/- stat, just more advanced. It still is limited to performance within a single team, with that team's personnel. The game is still played by human beings, who react differently in different situations, playing with different players. So it discounts the human element. They also can be misleading in many ways.

Player A- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -8.3 16-17: -7.6 15-16: -9.6 Cumulative career total with prior team: -7.2
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html

Player B- CF%Rel in 2017-8 for his former team: -11.1 16-17: -7.5 15-16 -3.3 Cumulative career total with prior team: -4.8
https://www.hockey-reference.com/player ... anced.html


These were based on all situations, not just 5 on 5.
The first one is Ian Cole as a Pen, the second JJ as a BJ. Neither puts up good numbers. Both are downright ugly. But I saw a lot of value in Ian Cole. No one brings his name up when discussing dmen the Pens helped turn around. Remember how badly he struggled in St L before the trade? Although he was a -1.5 during his time in St L.

It seems that JJ has joined Letang as the whipping boys right now. The other curious thing is that Letang seems to be an analytics darling. I guess you can paint any argument you want. Ultimately, the success of the team will determine the perception of the player. Cole will always be a hero. If JJ plays a comparable role and the team wins the Cup, I suspect a lot of perceptions will change about him as well.


Using stats for all situations is the first mistake. These stats can be thrown out the window as one player could be used primarily on the PK while the other is used mostly on the PP. Numbers would then be skewed. The numbers you stated above are based on all situations and therefore aren't a good indicator.

At least the relative CF stat gives you an idea of how the team fares with that player on/off the ice. It can tell you to what extent the player is either being an anchor or driving possession. -1.5 isn't horrible as that player is pretty close to the rest of the team in terms of possession when on the ice. -11 on the other hand is really bad and shows what an anchor that player is.

The other thing that can help, is remembering score effects and how they could have a pretty big impact on numbers. Using "close" numbers might give one a better idea of how said player is performing.

This is why when using advanced stats, 95% of those using them stick to even strength only stats. Taking PP or PK time into account would wildly skew numbers......a guy on the PK is going to have a ton of shots against with little shots for. When someone is showing advanced stats, it's pretty fair to assume it is 5on5/Even Strength numbers unless otherwise noted.

That said, you still can't use stats for everything. Ever seen the movie "Trouble with the Curve" with Clint Eastwood? I know it's a movie, but it always drives home the point for me.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby WHITEY1 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:08 pm

Maybe they signed him just so they had a decent name who has been known to show decent talent to expose a defenseman at the next expansion draft.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jmalone on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:54 pm

WHITEY1 wrote:Maybe they signed him just so they had a decent name who has been known to show decent talent to expose a defenseman at the next expansion draft.


That wouldn't be a bad plan actually. Let's see if Seattle actually would want him though.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Owchar76 on Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:30 pm

D-men on ice for goals against the Penguins, last 5 games:
Johnson/Dumoulin (PPG)
Johnson/Dumoulin (PPG)
Johnson/Maatta
Johnson/Riikola
Johnson/Riikola
Letang (OT)
Johnson/Dumoulin
Johnson/Oleksiak
Letang/Dumoulin
Johnson/Riikola
Letang/Dumoulin
Johnson/Schultz
Letang/Dumoulin

In those five games, Johnson has allowed a goal with every single defenseman except Letang (who he never plays with). For three of them, that's the only goal against they've been on the ice for.

I thought Gonchar was going to fix this guy? You're going the wrong way Gonch! People post links to youtube to show how physical and tough Johnson is? Yeah, that seems to be going really well. The guy is supposed to be tough in front of the net and clear bodies? Yet he's allowed the most high danger chances and high danger goals.

It's been said a bunch of times that he's an anchor and his teams fare worse when he's on the ice......we are seeing exactly that right now. This isn't only a Jack Johnson thing, there's many other issues, but he's right on par with his career.....awful.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Southern Fan on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:00 am

After reading the previous post, I figured he must have early 2017 Letang like +/-

He is -3, the same as Rust, Sheahan and Sprong. At -2 are Guentzel, Rikola and Cullen.

I understand that +/- is not the most accurate indicator of defensive prowess. Guessing he must be out there a lot when we score.

Have to agree for the most part, he doesn’t pass the eye test. If it weren’t for the money and contract length, I would still take him over Scuderi and Orpik.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:05 am

Southern Fan wrote:After reading the previous post, I figured he must have early 2017 Letang like +/-

He is -3, the same as Rust, Sheahan and Sprong. At -2 are Guentzel, Rikola and Cullen.

I understand that +/- is not the most accurate indicator of defensive prowess. Guessing he must be out there a lot when we score.

Have to agree for the most part, he doesn’t pass the eye test. If it weren’t for the money and contract length, I would still take him over Scuderi and Orpik.


This is exactly why plus minus is a terrible stat.

Jesse Marshall did a great story on how Maatta and Johnson aren’t creating any offense this year either.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby indian on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:53 am

I think Johnson will be fine and be a very good 4/5 D for pens.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:58 am

Owchar76 wrote:D-men on ice for goals against the Penguins, last 5 games:
Johnson/Dumoulin (PPG)
Johnson/Dumoulin (PPG)
Johnson/Maatta
Johnson/Riikola
Johnson/Riikola
Letang (OT)
Johnson/Dumoulin
Johnson/Oleksiak
Letang/Dumoulin
Johnson/Riikola
Letang/Dumoulin
Johnson/Schultz
Letang/Dumoulin

In those five games, Johnson has allowed a goal with every single defenseman except Letang (who he never plays with). For three of them, that's the only goal against they've been on the ice for.

I thought Gonchar was going to fix this guy? You're going the wrong way Gonch! People post links to youtube to show how physical and tough Johnson is? Yeah, that seems to be going really well. The guy is supposed to be tough in front of the net and clear bodies? Yet he's allowed the most high danger chances and high danger goals.

It's been said a bunch of times that he's an anchor and his teams fare worse when he's on the ice......we are seeing exactly that right now. This isn't only a Jack Johnson thing, there's many other issues, but he's right on par with his career.....awful.


7 games played. Total. Seven.





7




Did the first 2 games not support your diatribe or was there another reason you left them out?
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:48 am

I think 7 games for a long seasoned vet like JJ is enough to make a judgement. Even for Riikola, I can say after 7 games that I absolutely love this guy and he's a noob by NHL standards. I personally think Ruhwedel is better than JJ. Just smarter. Just opinions.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:47 am

In these only 7 games, for D... Johnson is 3rd TOI/G even, 3rd TOI/G PP, 3rd TOI/G PK, and 3rd TOI/G overall.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby longtimefan on Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:09 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I think 7 games for a long seasoned vet like JJ is enough to make a judgement. Even for Riikola, I can say after 7 games that I absolutely love this guy and he's a noob by NHL standards. I personally think Ruhwedel is better than JJ. Just smarter. Just opinions.


If you recall, it took Gonchar and Martin a lot longer than 7 games. Jesse had an article about him, and so did Kingerski. Both pointing out that he had been strong in his own end, but wasn't contributing to the puck movement to drive offense. Both concluded he has to do that to be successful in this system, but that his play in his own wnd had been fine. Before final judgement, they need to find a steady partner for him. The idea seemed to be him and Schultz together. Unfortunately, the injury put that on hold.
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