Hagelin and Geno...updates?

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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Risto on Tue May 01, 2018 9:10 am

Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby itissteeltime on Tue May 01, 2018 9:32 am

What are we thinking for tonight? My guess is Malkin and Hags in, Dumo out.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Penspal on Tue May 01, 2018 9:42 am

itissteeltime wrote:What are we thinking for tonight? My guess is Malkin and Hags in, Dumo out.


Hagelin probably needs to sit one more game. Geno in for sure.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby agwin003 on Tue May 01, 2018 10:52 am

@PensInsideScoop
Malkin and Dumoulin are on the ice for #Pens optional morning skate wearing regular contact jerseys. Hagelin is skating in a no-contact jersey. -MC

Bodes really well for Dumo I think. Maybe he will be back tonight?
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby BurghThing on Tue May 01, 2018 11:06 am

If Dumo sees Wilson coming in on a forecheck he needs to point the butt end of his stick right at his face and let him skate into it. Let the league talk their way out of that one.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 11:10 am

Risto wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.


If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby BurghThing on Tue May 01, 2018 11:16 am

Faubert5 wrote:
Risto wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.


If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.


Neither is Simon, yet he keeps getting a sweater.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby DelPen on Tue May 01, 2018 11:17 am

agwin003 wrote:@PensInsideScoop
Malkin and Dumoulin are on the ice for #Pens optional morning skate wearing regular contact jerseys. Hagelin is skating in a no-contact jersey. -MC

Bodes really well for Dumo I think. Maybe he will be back tonight?


Hags skating after with Hunwick and Rowney bodes well for having both Malkin and dumo in tonight.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Risto on Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am

Faubert5 wrote:If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.


The image that pops into my head when Madden references Sprong's strangeness is Reggie Dunlop- "They brought their f***in' toys!!" :lol:
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby nastystang05 on Tue May 01, 2018 11:28 am

Owchar76 wrote:Anyone else disappointed with Kessel going back with Brassard? No idea if it stays this way, but square peg/round hole here. They've had zero in terms of chemistry this year.

I am. I personally like Kessel with Sheahan.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Jim on Tue May 01, 2018 11:42 am

BurghThing wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Antonio wrote:Here's an idea, what about brassard with Sprong?


Sprong with anyone seems to be crazy talk with this staff. If they wouldn’t play him all season, I can’t see them playing him in a meaningful playoff game. The 4th line wasn’t horrible last game but I’d still like to see Sprong in the lineup.


Especially over Simon.



Let's see, a proven goal scorer vs someone who couldn't fall out of a boat and hit water.

Unfortunately we all know which one Sully will pick.


4 goals in 26 games while being force-fed offensive time is not exactly proven.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Jim on Tue May 01, 2018 11:49 am

BurghThing wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Risto wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.


If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.


Neither is Simon, yet he keeps getting a sweater.


I am not a Simon fan, and granted both small sample sizes... but frankly there is not a single part of Sprong's NHL game that Simon hasn't done better.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 01, 2018 11:52 am

Faubert5 wrote:
Risto wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.


If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.

Madden has said the stuff about Sprong since he was first in the NHL with Johnston. Said same thing, that he is a bit "weird," beats to his own drum. One of the things he mentioned was Sprong was taking Uber's to practice and games, and he knew Sprong was living close to (maybe even in the same building) as other young Pens player. He was inferring that it appears Sprong isn't very likeable by his teammates, and that went as far as not being able to (or wanting to ) get a ride to practice/games with a teammate. Others in the media have said he has an attitude, not cocky or arrogant, but an attitude. To me, it is starting to sound like it is cocky and arrogant.

All that being said, with point #2, the guy can't ever be a proven playoff performer if he doesn't get a chance to play in the playoffs. He was over a point per game playoff player every year for Charlottetown, had 7 points in 10 WBS playoff games in 15-16, and a goal in 3 playoff games this year.

Simon just hasn't done much for me. He started out meh, got hot with Crosby for a week or so, then returned to meh, went back to WBS, and came back up and continues to be meh. He's not really making mistakes, but, again, this team has too many players playing well but not scoring. I'd give Sprong a shot over Simon at this point. If you have Sprong with Hagelin or Rust on his other wing, that would help make up for any supposed defensive deficiencies.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Jim on Tue May 01, 2018 12:17 pm

Maybe a little of a Despres-squared.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 01, 2018 12:27 pm

Jim wrote:Maybe a little of a Despres-squared.

It's possible. I actually thought Despres got jerked around more than anyone. He would have a good game, or several good games, and then get pulled for having "mistakes." Bylsma would be like "We told him to clear the puck 10 feet off the boards. His clear only went 9.6FT. He needs to sit and work on that.

If Sprong is a problem, then I could see him dealt this summer. The Penguins have to play Sprong in the NHL next year, so either they learn to live with or work on his attitude on the fly, or they dump him. He has no waiver eligibility after this season, and someone will snap him up if they tried next season.

Again, 1 game, can't see it hurting that much. He plays like crap or makes too many mistakes, you sit him, put Rust on RW, bump ZAR up the lineup. I mean, honestly, I think they are mis-using ZAR too. I don't think he's sliced bread, but he showed some chemistry with Crosby, but has never gotten another chance up in the top 6. I have no expectations of him doing much of anything on a 4th line centered with Rowney.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Risto on Tue May 01, 2018 12:46 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:Maybe a little of a Despres-squared.

Again, 1 game, can't see it hurting that much. He plays like crap or makes too many mistakes, you sit him, put Rust on RW, bump ZAR up the lineup. I mean, honestly, I think they are mis-using ZAR too. I don't think he's sliced bread, but he showed some chemistry with Crosby, but has never gotten another chance up in the top 6. I have no expectations of him doing much of anything on a 4th line centered with Rowney.


Yeah, I wonder if the Pens have forgotten how well ZAR was playing in a top-6 role before he got hurt, or if he's yet another guy who is not completely healthy and is just kind of gutting it out right now.
I really thought he was going to be our impact rookie in the playoffs this year, following in the tradition of Guentzel last year, and Sheary and Murray the year before.

I'm glad the Sprong soap opera is over next year, one way or the other. They've got to play him or ship him out. It's become a source of aggravation to the fans that we've got this 30-goal guy sitting in the minors while all year we see the lack of depth scoring on the big club and the monumental 40-point drop-off in production after our big 3 forwards.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby largegarlic on Tue May 01, 2018 1:03 pm

I can see both sides of the Sprong vs. Simon debate. Sprong's rep is that he skates well and has a good shot, but is average at best in other areas. The problem so far at the NHL level is that he hasn't really put up enough points to justify living with the deficiencies in his game. If he had scored, say, 10 goals in his 26 games instead of 4, then we might be more justified in wondering if character issues are keeping him out of the lineup. But as of now, it seems like there's a reasonable case to be made that it just is performance related.

On the other hand, the team needs some forwards outside of the Crosby line to start scoring, and they need to shoot more and score more of the PP. Simon doesn't seem likely to help with either of those issues (though I do think he's at least getting into good positions to score, even if he's not converting yet), while Sprong might.

I suppose I'd see how tonight goes with Malkin coming back (presumably). If the Pens lose and still struggle to get secondary scoring, then I might give Sprong a jersey for Thursday.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 2:01 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Risto wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Take it for what it is worth, Madden said the way the pens are treating Sprong is personal, it is more than just his play on the ice


Madden has mentioned this before- That Sprong is a weird kid who marches to the beat of his own drum and doesn't really embrace the team ethic.

Maybe when the Pens constantly say that he needs to work on his "all-around" game, it's code for "we think he's a bit of an immature brat and we don't want that element in the room."

But then that seems hypocritical, considering that the team has clearly indulged (and rightly so) a talented player with a similar "character" knock against him- Phil Kessel.


If it is a character issue then I think there are at least two differences between Phil and Sprong.

1. When they interview players about Phil their first reaction is to smile. There are likeable characters and not so likeable characters. Maybe Sprong's actions aren't endearing him to his teammates.

2. Phil is a proven scorer and playoff performer (I think he's hurt right now) and Sprong isn't.

Madden has said the stuff about Sprong since he was first in the NHL with Johnston. Said same thing, that he is a bit "weird," beats to his own drum. One of the things he mentioned was Sprong was taking Uber's to practice and games, and he knew Sprong was living close to (maybe even in the same building) as other young Pens player. He was inferring that it appears Sprong isn't very likeable by his teammates, and that went as far as not being able to (or wanting to ) get a ride to practice/games with a teammate. Others in the media have said he has an attitude, not cocky or arrogant, but an attitude. To me, it is starting to sound like it is cocky and arrogant.

All that being said, with point #2, the guy can't ever be a proven playoff performer if he doesn't get a chance to play in the playoffs. He was over a point per game playoff player every year for Charlottetown, had 7 points in 10 WBS playoff games in 15-16, and a goal in 3 playoff games this year.

Simon just hasn't done much for me. He started out meh, got hot with Crosby for a week or so, then returned to meh, went back to WBS, and came back up and continues to be meh. He's not really making mistakes, but, again, this team has too many players playing well but not scoring. I'd give Sprong a shot over Simon at this point. If you have Sprong with Hagelin or Rust on his other wing, that would help make up for any supposed defensive deficiencies.


Phil was well liked by most of his teammates in Toronto and he got his shot to prove himself. Sprong has a reputation for not playing a 200 foot game consistently and that combined with being difficult may have made it harder for him to earn a shot.

If he's not going to fit in then why keep him? Cut him loose, get something in return, and move on. Otherwise, give him another shot and see what happens.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Risto on Tue May 01, 2018 2:33 pm

The Sprong situation reminds me of a couple of other quirky but talented kids who once came through here- Markus Naslund and Alexei Morozov. Neither was handled very well by the organization (Naslund was played out of position, Morozov mostly wasted away on checking lines). Both went on the be stars elsewhere and the Pens getting virtually no return for them.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby murphydump55 on Tue May 01, 2018 2:39 pm

Risto wrote:The Sprong situation reminds me of a couple of other quirky but talented kids who once came through here- Markus Naslund and Alexei Morozov. Neither was handled very well by the organization (Naslund was played out of position, Morozov mostly wasted away on checking lines). Both went on the be stars elsewhere and the Pens getting virtually no return for them.


This is my fear. They get pennies on the dollar because teams won’t pay much for him because they don’t know what he’s capable of. Meanwhile neither do the Pens really.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby interstorm on Tue May 01, 2018 2:54 pm

Naslund -- are you kidding me? Talk about ancient history! Also Morozov never played for any other NHL team and went overseas. Gotta find better examples to support your claim.

Here's my take -- based on absolutely nothing but my own gut instinct. While we do need to give young guys a try (and believe it or not we've been pretty good over the last few seasons here) whatever player comes on the 2-time defending champion Pittsburgh Penguins roster needs to be responsible -- end of story! We've been in win-now mode for a decade (which is amazing) and we don't have the luxury of letting guys figure it out on the ice in a tense game 7 situation. I'd love to give Sprong that chance but I'd also love even more for our team to keep making smart plays, stay even keeled and not get caught up in emotional nonsense. If Sprong can indeed do this virtually all the time then fine. Until then, sorry...not a spot on this roster for you right now when the Rusts, Kühnhackls and even Conor Shearies ARE being responsible.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 01, 2018 3:50 pm

interstorm wrote:Naslund -- are you kidding me? Talk about ancient history! Also Morozov never played for any other NHL team and went overseas. Gotta find better examples to support your claim.

Here's my take -- based on absolutely nothing but my own gut instinct. While we do need to give young guys a try (and believe it or not we've been pretty good over the last few seasons here) whatever player comes on the 2-time defending champion Pittsburgh Penguins roster needs to be responsible -- end of story! We've been in win-now mode for a decade (which is amazing) and we don't have the luxury of letting guys figure it out on the ice in a tense game 7 situation. I'd love to give Sprong that chance but I'd also love even more for our team to keep making smart plays, stay even keeled and not get caught up in emotional nonsense. If Sprong can indeed do this virtually all the time then fine. Until then, sorry...not a spot on this roster for you right now when the Rusts, Kühnhackls and even Conor Shearies ARE being responsible.

When the NHL starts awarding Wins based on responsibility, I guess we are all set then. But last time I checked, that's not how the game works.

Sid, Jake, and Hornqvist account for 53% of the Penguins 32 playoff goals. If when fully healthy Hagelin-Malkin-Rust are the 2nd line, then those 6 account for 78% of Pittsburgh's 32 playoff goals. The Penguins have 7 goals from outside their top 6. Kuhnhackl, Sheary, Rowney, Sheahan, ZAR, Simon, and Brassard are bringing nothing offensively. They are playing great, and playing responsible for the most part......but the goal is to put pucks in the net. Can't have this many passengers. Secondary scoring is a problem right now on this team, defense included (Letang 2, Dumo 1....nothing from Schultz, Maatta, Oleksiak, or Ruhwedel).

From Mackey:

Bottom-nine forwards have accounted for 34 percent of the Penguins' goals (11 of 32). Last year, they accounted for 60 percent (46 of 77).

This is the reason to try inserting Sprong into the lineup.....to try and get some additional secondary scoring. Again, it isn't Sprong's fault the Penguins refused to get him some more NHL games down the stretch. I do agree with Malkin hopefully coming back tonight, this game probably isn't the time to do it. But if Simon has another unimpressive game, and the Penguins don't get some goals from guys other than Crosby and Malkin's line, I'd be trying Sprong in Game 4.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Antonio on Tue May 01, 2018 3:58 pm

The nonsense about sprong not playing 200 ft game is absurd. Rowney and Simon don't play 200ft games either...they generate 0 offense. Somehow the idea of a 200ft game always means defense only. Frankly, I'd rather have a guy who may or may not play complete defense than a guy who definitely does not do anything in the offensive zone at all. Frankly I'm not sure where Rowney or Simon play defense that well either.
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby pens_CT on Tue May 01, 2018 4:05 pm

Antonio wrote:The nonsense about sprong not playing 200 ft game is absurd. Rowney and Simon don't play 200ft games either...they generate 0 offense. Somehow the idea of a 200ft game always means defense only. Frankly, I'd rather have a guy who may or may not play complete defense than a guy who definitely does not do anything in the offensive zone at all. Frankly I'm not sure where Rowney or Simon play defense that well either.


Adding Sprong sounds great until he makes an error in his own end and the puck goes into the Penguins net. If he had shown some offensive ability at the NHL level then sure take a chance, but beyond the Islanders game, what offense has he produced?
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Re: Hagelin and Geno...updates?

Postby Risto on Tue May 01, 2018 4:20 pm

interstorm wrote:Naslund -- are you kidding me? Talk about ancient history! Also Morozov never played for any other NHL team and went overseas. Gotta find better examples to support your claim.


I'm sorry that your grasp of the team's history doesn't predate 2009, but they are similar situations. Lots and lots of hype about the player before they ever got here. Didn't fit with whatever the team thought it was doing at the time. The Penguins never quite figuring out what to do with them. Round peg in a square hole.

And the fact that Morozov never returned to the NHL is meaningless. That was his choice. Any team in the league would have signed him. For a period of time he was considered arguably the best player in the world not in the NHL.
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