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Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

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Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:52 am

Thought this was an interesting set of stats that I saw on Twitter this morning, from Alby Oxenreiter:

[*]Ben Roethlisberger was drafted 11th overall by the Steelers in 2004.
[*]Andrew McCutchen was drafted by the Pirates 11th overall in 2005, 409 days later
[*]Sidney Crosby was drafted 1st overall by the Penguins in 2005, 53 days after McCutchen was drafted.

Each team drafted their franchise player in slightly over a year's time. What has each team done since then:

[*]Penguins, 4 Cup Finals appearances, 3 Championships
[*]Steelers, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Championships
[*]Pirates, 0 World Series appearances, 0 Championships, 4 total playoff games, 1 win

I'm glad hockey is my favorite sport, and the Penguins are my favorite team. It must be pretty unbearable to be a Pirates fan.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Jim on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:45 pm

Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Fat Old Frank on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Wow
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby ville5 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:27 pm

Fat Old Frank wrote:
Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Wow

He's not wrong. Nothing's going to change until ownership sees a drastic drop in attendance. Between the local TV contract, the welfare the Nuttings collect from the other owners and $50 million payout to each team for the sale of BAMtech, nothing's going to change.
And how many millions did they just slash from the payroll?
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:42 pm

Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.

Baseball, IMO, is typically boring to watch on TV. Baseball is enjoyable to watch in person, and, also happens to be the most family friendly (price wise), of the 3 sports.

I can go to a Marlins game down here on a Sunday, 4 tickets, 2 rows off the 3rd base/outfield line, with 4 drinks, and 4 hot dogs, for $80. Add in parking for another $20.....$100 for a family of 4.

I try to go to a hockey game, I have to use StubHub or something else. Nobody in my family likes nosebleed seats, particularly for hockey. 4 tickets in the last rows of the 100 section down here, with fees, I'm looking at about $70 PER TICKET. That's $280, not including parking (another $10-20) or food (probably $60 for 4 people). So $350-400 for a family of 4 to go watch hockey, or $100 for a family of 4. Pretty easy choice, in terms of seeing live action sports.

Even NFL.....I bought 3 season tickets this year for the Dolphins, as my boys are old enough and like football. I am able to do nosebleeds here because the incline isn't as bad (nobody in my family likes heights), so my seats average $50-60 per game, plus parking, and plus food. 3 tickets, parking, and food....roughly $200-250 per game. Still 100-150 cheaper a game than hockey (although the seating I am comparing isn't apples to apples).

I mostly stopped watching baseball on a regular basis because I moved from Pittsburgh in 1998, when the team was trash, and down to Florida. After the Marlins won the World Series in 2003, they became the Pirates of the south, with Jeffrey Loria owning the team, and now even worse, Jeter.

I've been a big sports fan all my life, but quite honestly, if I didn't have two teenage boys, I'd likely stop buying their products.....they are all grossly overpriced and unaffordable for many people to go to on a regular basis, between overpriced tickets, gross overcharging of ticket fees, parking costs, and $10 for a $1 hotdog, $8 for a $2 soda.....
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Jim on Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 pm

I do understand what you are saying about baseball ticket prices being more affordable for a family.

As far as other things being overpriced... if people didn't pay it, it would cost as much. Epi-pens are overpriced. Entertainment is not.

There is a reason that I eat before, or after, a game, but rarely eat/drink anything at the game itself.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Humperdink on Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm

Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Couldn't agree more. Occasionally, I will stumble across a Pirate game on TV and will watch an out or two - which generally takes 20 minutes. Then I come to my senses.

Pitcher steps off, rosin bag, batter adjusts batting gloves, looks for sign from 3rd base coach, adjust batting gloves again, settles into the batters box, pitcher delays, batter steps out, looks for sign, adjusts both batting gloves again, pitcher looks for sign, shakes off sign, everybody set, pitchers throw first pitch, batter fouls off his foot, trainer comes out.

Regarding Pirate ownership: They are interested in one thing, and it's not fielding a championship team.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:29 pm

Jim wrote:I do understand what you are saying about baseball ticket prices being more affordable for a family.

As far as other things being overpriced... if people didn't pay it, it would cost as much. Epi-pens are overpriced. Entertainment is not.

There is a reason that I eat before, or after, a game, but rarely eat/drink anything at the game itself.

Yes, I agree on the food. Try as much as possible to eat beforehand, and typically share drinks or get 1 refillable drink for everyone. Sometimes though, depending on the timing, can't avoid it.

I've lightened up on some of the prices, because even though you may be able to buy that hotdog for $1 somewhere else, or buy a pack or two of hot dogs for what you pay at the stadium, you don't have a few hundred employees that need to get paid to cook and get you that hot dog. So some markup is inevitable just to cover certain costs....but there are still some items where they downright price gouge you.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby pressure=9Pa on Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:53 pm

I've always loved baseball, but it's also the only sport where the early stages of the game are typically more exciting than the final stages. Not always, of course, but the modern game is one of trying to get a two run lead after six innings, then playing the lefty-righty game for two innings of scoreless baseball, then handing things over to an unhittable closer for the ninth. So the game gets slower, both in pace and in scoring toward the end.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby BurghThing on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:31 pm

Baseball is perfect for radio. slow, not much action most of the time, great for listening to while mowing the lawn, relaxing in a hammock with a couple of cold ones, etc.

Football is perfect for TV, tons of dead time between actual plays to run replay after replay after replay so you can see what actually just happened.

Hockey is perfect live. Radio can't keep up with the speed, tv shows too little of the ice surface, you have to be there to see who's changing behind the play, who's streaking down the off wing, who's still stuck in the d zone tangling with someone.

That's my perspective anyway.

Oh and the Pirates are garbage.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby IntangibleBeer on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:34 pm

Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Totally agree. :thumb:

The most exciting thing about "professional scratch & spit" are the condiment races around the infield. :lol:
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby wondermoose on Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:25 pm

I don't know what the difference was - maybe just that times have changed and people are always "busy" on the internet or their phone - but I used to watch a ton of baseball when I was growing up in the 90s. Mostly the Braves because of TBS and they were fun to watch and sometimes the Pirates (although they were already terrible at that point). I just can't sit still long enough to do it as an adult. Can't even listen to it in the background anymore.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Crashguy66 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:15 pm

I actually enjoy baseball. The National league is much better than American league because there's some strategy without the DH. That being said, with what has transpired the last few days I'm done with the Buccos. JayHay now wants traded. Baseball's biggest problem is no salary cap.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:33 pm

It is hard to get excited about baseball in general when the Pirates have such a POS owner. Some of the blame falls on the MLB but most of it is on Nutting.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Crashguy66 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:02 pm

He's definitely the worst owner in pro sports. At least the last few years have been interesting past June. Thank God for Mario, Ron and the Pens! At least when they got a taxpayer subsidized facility they spent accordingly. Hockey ALWAYS has and ALWAYS will be the best sport. Nothing beats 2+ months of playoff grind.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 pm

Let's not forget to give credit to the 1976 Pitt Panthers. College football national champions. Also the '67-'68 Pittsburgh Pipers won the initial ABA Championship over the New Orleans Buccaneers in game 7 of the best of 7. I was actually at game 6 in New Orleans as the Bucs failed to win the series in that game. :(

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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Daniel on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:01 am

ville5 wrote:
Fat Old Frank wrote:
Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Wow

He's not wrong. Nothing's going to change until ownership sees a drastic drop in attendance. Between the local TV contract, the welfare the Nuttings collect from the other owners and $50 million payout to each team for the sale of BAMtech, nothing's going to change.
And how many millions did they just slash from the payroll?


It seems that the welfare will be cut off this year. Because of the new system, teams are going to be paying a lot of money in luxury taxes, but it all starts over if they don't go over this year. Dodgers, Yankees, etc. are all likely to be under the threshold.

I think it is pretty hard to go .500 for 20 years, like the Pirates did. You almost have to do it on purpose, since even baseball is setup that poor teams get blue chip prospects.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby BurghThing on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:38 am

Daniel wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Fat Old Frank wrote:
Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Wow

He's not wrong. Nothing's going to change until ownership sees a drastic drop in attendance. Between the local TV contract, the welfare the Nuttings collect from the other owners and $50 million payout to each team for the sale of BAMtech, nothing's going to change.
And how many millions did they just slash from the payroll?


It seems that the welfare will be cut off this year. Because of the new system, teams are going to be paying a lot of money in luxury taxes, but it all starts over if they don't go over this year. Dodgers, Yankees, etc. are all likely to be under the threshold.

I think it is pretty hard to go .500 for 20 years, like the Pirates did. You almost have to do it on purpose, since even baseball is setup that poor teams get blue chip prospects.


They don't get blue chip prospects, they get the chance to pick blue chip prospects. Have you look at the Pirates drafting record lately? Small market teams have got to develop in house talent to compete. Like most everything else this front office does, it sucks.
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Re: Pittsburgh, city of mostly champions

Postby Daniel on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:40 am

BurghThing wrote:
Daniel wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Fat Old Frank wrote:
Jim wrote:Baseball is so incredibly boring that you have to be a bit off in the head to be a fan to begin with. So not realizing that your team is horrid and that the ownership has no intention of ever changing that is not surprising.


Wow

He's not wrong. Nothing's going to change until ownership sees a drastic drop in attendance. Between the local TV contract, the welfare the Nuttings collect from the other owners and $50 million payout to each team for the sale of BAMtech, nothing's going to change.
And how many millions did they just slash from the payroll?


It seems that the welfare will be cut off this year. Because of the new system, teams are going to be paying a lot of money in luxury taxes, but it all starts over if they don't go over this year. Dodgers, Yankees, etc. are all likely to be under the threshold.

I think it is pretty hard to go .500 for 20 years, like the Pirates did. You almost have to do it on purpose, since even baseball is setup that poor teams get blue chip prospects.


They don't get blue chip prospects, they get the chance to pick blue chip prospects. Have you look at the Pirates drafting record lately? Small market teams have got to develop in house talent to compete. Like most everything else this front office does, it sucks.


No, they don't, BUT it's setup for them to do so AND I said 20 years of sub .500 record is almost done on purpose. :scared:
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