Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

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Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Weegie on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:29 am

I know they put guys like Bonino and Hags and Cullen and Horny and others out there to kill penalties but why don't they throw Sid out there at times, he can sure play good defense as we've seen plus he is always a threat to take one to the house and get a shorty. I know once in awhile he is out there at the end of a kill, and they want the grinders out there to kill it off but why do you think they don't put him out every so often to keep the other teams a bit more honest?
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Zarovich on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:30 am

Injury.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:28 am

He can only play so many minutes a game and would you rather have him killing penalties for 2 minutes, or 2 more minutes of 5 on 5?

(It's "B")
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby no name on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:34 am

Zarovich wrote:Injury.


Could you see Sid getting hit like Bonino did in the playoffs. Yes I think the injury concern is the biggest argument as well as ice time would be your second concern.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Weegie on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:28 am

Jim wrote:He can only play so many minutes a game and would you rather have him killing penalties for 2 minutes, or 2 more minutes of 5 on 5?

(It's "B")


None of the penalty killers are out there for the full two minutes unless they get hung out and can't change....I'm just talking about the last 30 seconds or so if they can change, put him out there once in awhile to see if they can spring him on a breakaway, but yes the risk of injury is the main factor.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby scpensfan on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:35 am

At the risk of simplifying things, seems like the way he's being deployed now is working just fine.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:53 am

Weegie wrote:
Jim wrote:He can only play so many minutes a game and would you rather have him killing penalties for 2 minutes, or 2 more minutes of 5 on 5?

(It's "B")


None of the penalty killers are out there for the full two minutes unless they get hung out and can't change....I'm just talking about the last 30 seconds or so if they can change, put him out there once in awhile to see if they can spring him on a breakaway, but yes the risk of injury is the main factor.


I was referring to per game.

Crosby got 19:52 this past season. 16:09 Ev, 0:07 SH, 3:35 PP. You don't really want him going over 20 minutes a game if you can help it. So if you up that 0:07 SH time to 2:07, where do you take that 2 minutes from? Drip his Ev to 14? Slash his PP time?

For reference, forward SH time this past year:
Cullen 2:19
Bonino 2:17
Hagelin 2:15
Fehr 1:47
Kuhnhackl 1:46
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:26 pm

I agree with the other reasons given for not having Crosby kill penalties.

About the only situation in which I could see him on the PK would be in the last 30 seconds of the game when we're down by a goal and need a shortie.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby ville5 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm

Jim wrote:
Weegie wrote:
Jim wrote:He can only play so many minutes a game and would you rather have him killing penalties for 2 minutes, or 2 more minutes of 5 on 5?

(It's "B")


None of the penalty killers are out there for the full two minutes unless they get hung out and can't change....I'm just talking about the last 30 seconds or so if they can change, put him out there once in awhile to see if they can spring him on a breakaway, but yes the risk of injury is the main factor.


I was referring to per game.

Crosby got 19:52 this past season. 16:09 Ev, 0:07 SH, 3:35 PP. You don't really want him going over 20 minutes a game if you can help it. So if you up that 0:07 SH time to 2:07, where do you take that 2 minutes from? Drip his Ev to 14? Slash his PP time?

For reference, forward SH time this past year:
Cullen 2:19
Bonino 2:17
Hagelin 2:15
Fehr 1:47
Kuhnhackl 1:46

We need a PKer bad.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby pressure=9Pa on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:34 pm

He'd be out there in a game where 2 of the regular forward PKers are out, and another is the one in the box. He's more than skilled enough add it, but again, why use him there when he's so much better than the average player 5-5?
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby interstorm on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:26 pm

I'll skip the mean-hearted reply saying something like "why in the world would you put your best player in a situation where he is more likely to get hurt and use valuable energy" and assume you have a context to this such as Mario killing penalties back in tbe day from time to time (becuase, well, if you AREN'T referring to that context then, well....). While Lemieux was an incredible talent, he was also a BIG dude who could break up passes with his long reach. Given teams don't score that many shorthanded goals it is a better strategic decision to put your best players in a position to succeed at what they do best - that's putting Sid out on powerplays or better stated NOT putting him out short handed. When thinking of the "big body" approach - IF we were ever to go that route, Malkin is a much better player to put out there than Sid (excluding faceoff considerations). Overall, shorthanded, not where I want 87 at all.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Weegie on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:18 pm

interstorm wrote:I'll skip the mean-hearted reply saying something like "why in the world would you put your best player in a situation where he is more likely to get hurt and use valuable energy" and assume you have a context to this such as Mario killing penalties back in tbe day from time to time (becuase, well, if you AREN'T referring to that context then, well....). While Lemieux was an incredible talent, he was also a BIG dude who could break up passes with his long reach. Given teams don't score that many shorthanded goals it is a better strategic decision to put your best players in a position to succeed at what they do best - that's putting Sid out on powerplays or better stated NOT putting him out short handed. When thinking of the "big body" approach - IF we were ever to go that route, Malkin is a much better player to put out there than Sid (excluding faceoff considerations). Overall, shorthanded, not where I want 87 at all.


Yes this is exactly what I was getting at, big 66 had that 9 foot reach and would glide around out there like a jumbo 747 and was very tough to pass around, and if he intercepted a pass and got past you it was all over. That's why I am wondering why they don't put Sid out there ONCE IN AWHILE with about 30 seconds or so left in the kill, just to back the blueliners off a bit and make them a bit leery of a breakaway, but having the grinders out there makes more sense, just kill it off and get back to 5 on 5.

Malkin is closer to Mario size wise so maybe, if he is motivated to play defense at the time yes, if not and he just glides around out there, no. The guy I still miss on the PK and other places is Jordan Staal, he could break passes up and remember some BIG shorties he scored for us?

Sid out there once in a blue moon at the end of the kill, why not? As a steady killer hell no, I may be crazy but I haven't lost my mind!
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Fast B on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:42 pm

I'd also add that killing penalties these days seems to be predicated on blocking shots (particularly for the Pens), and there is no way in hell I want to see Sid out there blocking shots on a PK in a Tuesday night game in February.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby PensOnDVD on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:42 am

Malkin has killed penalties when he plays for Russia. If anything Sully should rotate the final 20-30 seconds he uses Sid on the PK for with Malkin.

But, maybe they don't feel they have to now with guys like Hagelin and Rust out there who have the threat of speed and SHG's where as guys like Craig Adams didn't.

But when officiating is a joke Sully should use them more during a game because all that's happening when he doesn't is shortening their own chances to produce.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby jitter1127 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:59 am

If Cullen was faster he would have had a lot more short handed breakaways. Seemed like he was getting 1-2 chances per game and he did convert one. If someone like Sid was out there our PK unit might score more than the PP. However I can see the reasoning for not putting him out there
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby ziggo on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:34 am

All time short handed goals.
1 Gretzky 73
2 Mark Messier 63
3 Steve Yzerman 50
4 Mario Lemieux 49
10 Dirk Graham 35 Was a 3rd liner
11 Marian Hossa 34 Only guy in the top 50 from the current game
12 Pavel Bure 34 interesting
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:36 am

ziggo wrote:All time short handed goals.
1 Gretzky 73
2 Mark Messier 63
3 Steve Yzerman 50
4 Mario Lemieux 49
10 Dirk Graham 35 Was a 3rd liner
11 Marian Hossa 34 Only guy in the top 50 from the current game
12 Pavel Bure 34 interesting

Different age then, for the most part. Shot blocking is the biggest reason why Sid shouldn't be out there. League is heavy on shot blocking, especially on the PK. Not what we need for Sid.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby ziggo on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:14 pm

I agree. Mostly 3rd and 4th line forwards blocked any shots if any did back then. Mario and Gretzky used to sneek out near the end of the power play a lot of the times. It is interesting though. Most of the top 50 are 1st and 2nd line players and from around the 1980's and up. Derek Sanderson (13th) Phil Esposito (both Bruins) and Don Luce are the exceptions. Most people would put the high scoring era line at (Before Orr) and (after Orr) about 1968.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Risto on Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:37 pm

I used to wonder the same thing about Crosby because Gretz and Lemiuex were such lethal PKers. But with the way the modern game has evolved into a shot-blocking contest, I don't need to see 87 standing in front of too many howitzers from the point. I think the era of top line players killing penalties is mostly over.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby no name on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:10 pm

Back in the early 90s coaches mostly rolled out 3 lines and players played all situations, then at some point they played 4 lines and players became specialized in different areas of the game. PK specialist, PP specialist. 4th lines would only try and match up vs the other players top lines to shut them down.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Biggems on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:56 pm

OP, that is like asking why Tom Brady doesn't play on ST coverage units for the Pats.
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Re: Why doesn't Sid kill some penalties?

Postby Weegie on Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:32 pm

Biggems wrote:OP, that is like asking why Tom Brady doesn't play on ST coverage units for the Pats.

Not quite.....
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