Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:47 pm

Engelland is horrible. Hiding him on a 4th line wing is fine, but it sucks when he has to play d.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Gaucho wrote:Cause Engo is tough as three tons of permafrosted mammoth sh*t.


Your not wrong, but I think he was eluding to the fact that 3tonsofpermafrostedmammothsh*t can be skated around easily.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:54 pm

The less he plays, the better.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby DelPen on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Hitchcock ruins hockey.

Engellend wasn't the problem last night and never has been for his role.

Niskanen also really isn't the problem for his usual role.

Orpik and Letang suck when you consider their roles. The one good thing about Letang's ridiculous contract is that there's no way we can keep Orpik. He walks this summer to Buffalo unless Bortuzzo gets even better and can eat up top 4 minutes by March and there's an offer too good to refuse on the table.

Trying to pin Any goals on Fluery is asinine. The second one was tipped.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penmyst on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:14 pm

wondermoose wrote:-I had a revelation last night. The problems on offense are starting with the defensemen's inability to move the puck up the ice with any regularity. It was certainly worse with Engelland in instead of Martin, but my god, there wasn't a single smooth transition outside of Sid's breakaway. We can draft all the top-end, puck-moving defensemen we want, but as long as Kris Letang, Brooks Orpik, and Derek Engelland are playing significant minutes, the offense will sputter.



Yeah this is a problem.

I was watching the Ducks-Rags game last week and my God... I can't believe I'm admiring anything Fatty Boudreau does but the Ducks are outstanding at getting those passes from the D moving forward in a hurry. Also in pushing the D forward when they force a turnover anywhere in their end. They must have generated double-digit odd-man breaks in that game. Imagine what the Pens stars might do if they had such a large amount of odd-man breaks.

It was actually fun to watch. Especially the frustration factor for the Rags as they were used to the bog-n-slog method permeating the NHL.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:22 pm

penmyst wrote:
wondermoose wrote:-I had a revelation last night. The problems on offense are starting with the defensemen's inability to move the puck up the ice with any regularity. It was certainly worse with Engelland in instead of Martin, but my god, there wasn't a single smooth transition outside of Sid's breakaway. We can draft all the top-end, puck-moving defensemen we want, but as long as Kris Letang, Brooks Orpik, and Derek Engelland are playing significant minutes, the offense will sputter.



Yeah this is a problem.

I was watching the Ducks-Rags game last week and my God... I can't believe I'm admiring anything Fatty Boudreau does but the Ducks are outstanding at getting those passes from the D moving forward in a hurry. Also in pushing the D forward when they force a turnover anywhere in their end. They must have generated double-digit odd-man breaks in that game. Imagine what the Pens stars might do if they had such a large amount of odd-man breaks.

It was actually fun to watch. Especially the frustration factor for the Rags as they were used to the bog-n-slog method permeating the NHL.


My highly unprofessional view point is that you are 100% right but these teams balance in strong skating and short passes to quickly move the puck out and start the attack. A lot of teams in the west seem to have strong transitions like this. and then will lead to a lot more real chances and ability to cycle and work the zone. Keeps defensives back and on their heels too.

It's ironic that we have drafted and coached to be that team - are our forwards slower than we think? Is our defense other than Martin not good with basic breakout fundamentals? Is that stretch really a bad problem?

I don't know the answer but something is amiss.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Shaky Walton on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:55 am

DelPen wrote:Hitchcock ruins hockey.

Engellend wasn't the problem last night and never has been for his role.

Niskanen also really isn't the problem for his usual role.

Orpik and Letang suck when you consider their roles. The one good thing about Letang's ridiculous contract is that there's no way we can keep Orpik. He walks this summer to Buffalo unless Bortuzzo gets even better and can eat up top 4 minutes by March and there's an offer too good to refuse on the table.

Trying to pin Any goals on Fluery is asinine. The second one was tipped.

Tipped by who????? The official goal was credited to the guy who shot it. Another MAF apologist!
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sil on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:31 am

Shaky Walton wrote:
DelPen wrote:Hitchcock ruins hockey.

Engellend wasn't the problem last night and never has been for his role.

Niskanen also really isn't the problem for his usual role.

Orpik and Letang suck when you consider their roles. The one good thing about Letang's ridiculous contract is that there's no way we can keep Orpik. He walks this summer to Buffalo unless Bortuzzo gets even better and can eat up top 4 minutes by March and there's an offer too good to refuse on the table.

Trying to pin Any goals on Fluery is asinine. The second one was tipped.

Tipped by who????? The official goal was credited to the guy who shot it. Another MAF apologist!

Apologist or not (and I wouldn't apologize for being an apologist), it was deflected. Because Shattenkirk still has credit, I'd assume the league viewed the goal and that it deflected off the pens defender. It definitely appeared to change direction though. Perhaps it was a famous knucklepuck?
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:34 am

Shaky Walton wrote:
DelPen wrote:Hitchcock ruins hockey.

Engellend wasn't the problem last night and never has been for his role.

Niskanen also really isn't the problem for his usual role.

Orpik and Letang suck when you consider their roles. The one good thing about Letang's ridiculous contract is that there's no way we can keep Orpik. He walks this summer to Buffalo unless Bortuzzo gets even better and can eat up top 4 minutes by March and there's an offer too good to refuse on the table.

Trying to pin Any goals on Fluery is asinine. The second one was tipped.

Tipped by who????? The official goal was credited to the guy who shot it. Another MAF apologist!


C'mon Shaky man. Watch the various video feeds if you want the proof. TIPPED. Rip MAF for a million other truthful valid reasons, don't come after Delpen for this one. And goals can be changed days after the fact, this one likely will be. My first google seach.... from the man who "officially" scored the goal

"" We still don't know" if the puck was tipped by Vladimir Tarasenko, who was screening Fleury. " We think someone might have tipped it, but for now, I'll take it."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/gameflash/2013/11/09/33208_recap.html#ixzz2kLMwVKai
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:36 pm

wondermoose wrote:-I had a revelation last night. The problems on offense are starting with the defensemen's inability to move the puck up the ice with any regularity. It was certainly worse with Engelland in instead of Martin, but my god, there wasn't a single smooth transition outside of Sid's breakaway. We can draft all the top-end, puck-moving defensemen we want, but as long as Kris Letang, Brooks Orpik, and Derek Engelland are playing significant minutes, the offense will sputter.

-Whatever happened to the balls-to-the-wall, north-south, fast-paced approach DB preached for all of those years? There's no drive to get on the forecheck, to get the puck up the ice. It seems perfectly acceptable to move the puck laterally until it gets turned over. Just ugly.

-Derek Engelland played 15:21 and Robert Bortuzzo played 12:17, and that includes Engelland's 5-minute major. I like Engelland, I really do, but he was on for another two goals, he can't pass, he has trouble with assignments, he takes stupid penalties... I mean, after all this time, how can they still think he's a viable option for the swing defenseman? How can he possibly be any better than Despres, Harrington, Dumoulin, or Mikkelson (who all, I am aware, have serious deficiencies at this time)? I suppose every coach has their Michel Oullet, but Engelland is getting serious minutes when he has done absolutely nothing to deserve them.


This post is full of win. Lots of good points here.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:37 pm

And to all those blaming MAF exclusively for the loss, keep in mind that teams that score only one goal in a game will lose 9 times out of 10. Should he have stopped that wobbly deflection/screen shot by Shattenkirk? Absolutely, and I'm sure he'd tell you that. But it's a deeper problem than guys just "slumping." Like Wondermoose said, the Pens are generating NOTHING in their transition game. This has become progressively worse under Bylsma. This team needs a shake-up and an infusion of speed. Skating ability and speed are two different things, as are passing ability and transition/breakout.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby indian on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:46 pm

- Sid gets shut down when a good defensive team double/ triple teams him, prevents passes to/from him and challenges his wingers to score if they can, sometimes one on one against goalies. Needs winger that can create/heavy shot. Duper overachieved last year, Bennett needs to be the guy.
- Malkin is fine and will be outstanding going forward.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:57 pm

Personally i think its time to shake up the lines a little bit. Shift Kunitz down with malkin and neal, that line needs kunitz more than sid does. Malkin and neal play so well of each other and create chances for each other its tough to shut that down when two playerson a line have the chemistry,

Move up Bennett to Sid's line with Dupius. Crosby needs someone else that can create offense on his line, that is why he gets shut down against shutdown teams. You key in on crosby and Kunitz and dupius are just muckers and grinders. Bennett has better vision on the ice than either of kunitz or dupius and can create for that line and play off crosby.

The d will be fine when scuds comes back, the whole reason we got him was to cover up Letang's boneheaded plays. By the end of the season when scuds comes back and they finally have had a chance to play with each other they will be fine. While Niskanen has played great, he is not the partner for letang, he doesn't read and react well to what letang is going to do.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby indian on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:05 pm

I would like-
Kunitz- Crosby- Bennett
Jussi-Malkin-Neal
Dupuis-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Vitale-Adams
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby columbia on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:07 pm

I missed the game: How did Bennett and Neal look on Saturday?
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Beveridge on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:25 pm

Rusty as can be expected. Bennett did snipe a corner post and that was all I noticed of either of them on the offensive side.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:57 pm

Penspal wrote:- A couple of two headed monster shifts, which continues to intrigue me. Pens are not scoring anyway, like to see #moar :twisted: :twisted: monSTAR


This a little, but would rather see a spark from 14 or 9 to get 87 going again, and let 71 and 18 get back into a routine. We don't need to disrupt opponents, and matchups should not be a concern. We do need more than 2 guys to carry the play.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:17 pm

When was the last time the "Two Headed Monster" actually did anything relevant?
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Tanger58 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:31 pm

darkstar57 wrote:Personally i think its time to shake up the lines a little bit. Shift Kunitz down with malkin and neal, that line needs kunitz more than sid does. Malkin and neal play so well of each other and create chances for each other its tough to shut that down when two playerson a line have the chemistry,

Move up Bennett to Sid's line with Dupius. Crosby needs someone else that can create offense on his line, that is why he gets shut down against shutdown teams. You key in on crosby and Kunitz and dupius are just muckers and grinders. Bennett has better vision on the ice than either of kunitz or dupius and can create for that line and play off crosby.

The d will be fine when scuds comes back, the whole reason we got him was to cover up Letang's boneheaded plays. By the end of the season when scuds comes back and they finally have had a chance to play with each other they will be fine. While Niskanen has played great, he is not the partner for letang, he doesn't read and react well to what letang is going to do.

Good points
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Beveridge on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:48 pm

I was part watching Saturday night, but I thought I saw Kunitz out with Geno and Neal at one point.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:54 pm

columbia wrote:I missed the game: How did Bennett and Neal look on Saturday?


I thought both looked good. Engaged and fast from the drop of the puck. Bennett had a post and Neal had a couple great looks. Didn't see either shy from contact and Neal even dropped Barret Jackman with a solid body check.

People will scream about Bennett being out of place on the third line, but I think that could actually help both. He could very well help wring some goals out of the third line.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby pcm on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:51 pm

I personally think Dupuis play much better on the 3rd line than with Sid. People were using his goal scoring stats with Sid out of the lineup as proof of his top 6 production. But I think it confirms more his ability to contribute playing in a grinder role. Sid has done well with pretty much anyone on his line; but he does even better with skilled guys (Hossa, Guerin), its just that the sample size is so small.

Bennett on the other hand would do much better playing with other skilled creative players. Sutter is an abomination with the puck in the offensive zone (okay maybe a little harsh, but not by much). Playing him with Sid would give the top line more offensive awareness and potentially maximize their potential.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kunitz dropped down with Malkin and Neal, but it's not going to happen. Whatever.

Here's my lines for now:

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


Ideally, Shero picks up a hard-nosed guy like Matthias for Malkin's wing. Then each of the top 3 lines gets a grinder/puck-retreiver and a sniper/puck carrier on the wings.

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Matthias-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:49 am

shafnutz05 wrote:When was the last time the "Two Headed Monster" actually did anything relevant?


Nothing relevant is being done right now. Putting together the two best Penguins might produce.... I don't know, chemistry and some goals?

I would like to see it tried, its not the long term answer.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:48 pm

pcm wrote:I personally think Dupuis play much better on the 3rd line than with Sid. People were using his goal scoring stats with Sid out of the lineup as proof of his top 6 production. But I think it confirms more his ability to contribute playing in a grinder role. Sid has done well with pretty much anyone on his line; but he does even better with skilled guys (Hossa, Guerin), its just that the sample size is so small.

Bennett on the other hand would do much better playing with other skilled creative players. Sutter is an abomination with the puck in the offensive zone (okay maybe a little harsh, but not by much). Playing him with Sid would give the top line more offensive awareness and potentially maximize their potential.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kunitz dropped down with Malkin and Neal, but it's not going to happen. Whatever.

Here's my lines for now:

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


Ideally, Shero picks up a hard-nosed guy like Matthias for Malkin's wing. Then each of the top 3 lines gets a grinder/puck-retreiver and a sniper/puck carrier on the wings.

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Matthias-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams

If we couldn't get Matthias. maybe Zubrus? Big(6'5"), good along the boards, will go in front of the net and has good speed for his size. He can also play on the pp and the pk.
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Re: Game 17 vs Blues - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:52 pm

Hrdina for Zubrus.
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