Do We Need Letang?

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Do the Penguins Need Letang?

Yes
8
29%
No
20
71%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby meow on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:55 am

Without Letang, this team becomes less dynamic and less dangerous. However, it would be more responsible. Tough choice. I guess it depends on how you like your hockey played.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby shafnutz05 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:59 am

I'm convinced Shero could sign an 84 year old Gordie Howe to a 4 year deal and there would be people defending the move as a "bargain". Shero has made some great moves during his tenure, but the Letang albatross was bad and time will ultimately judge the Malkin contract.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Gaucho on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:04 am

I think time will judge the Letang contract, too.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby pens2005 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:15 am

I'm tired of hearing about how dynamic Letang is. When you're brainless and making ridiculously dumb decisions, THAT dynamic FAR outweighs any sort of skill set he possesses.

This defensive team would be fine without Letang. Honestly, what good does he do on the poweplay? He's not a specialist in any way either.

If Scuderi wasn't hurt, Letangs absence wouldn't even be felt with the way Maata is playing.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:59 am

meow wrote:Without Letang, this team becomes less dynamic and less dangerous. However, it would be more responsible. Tough choice. I guess it depends on how you like your hockey played.


I think this is the general reason the Penguins have failed and I don't think it comes down to how you like your Hockey played. It comes down to what works and what doesn't. Teams that win play responsible hockey. The true elite players learn to produce playing defensive or wide-open hockey.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:11 am

pens2005 wrote:I'm tired of hearing about how dynamic Letang is. When you're brainless and making ridiculously dumb decisions, THAT dynamic FAR outweighs any sort of skill set he possesses.

This defensive team would be fine without Letang. Honestly, what good does he do on the poweplay? He's not a specialist in any way either.

If Scuderi wasn't hurt, Letangs absence wouldn't even be felt with the way Maata is playing.


Letang IS dynamic. Making brainless and dumb decisions has nothing to do with how dynamic you are as player. Letang has a rare mix of intangibles: very physical, fast, good shot, can move the puck and play sound positional hockey. Whether or not he utilizes them properly is another story.

HOWEVER, this is not the premise. This thread is not to attack Letang's play, it's to evaluate whether the Penguins are any better or worse without him. I honestly believe this team is no better or worse with Letang in the line up.

This team's biggest problem is their ability or the coaches ability to make them a consistently responsible team. While I think this team has some holes that need to be addressed, if they "got to the their game" 90% of the time they'd probably dominate the league.

Do I really think Letang will get traded? No, not any time within the next few years. I still think he should be though.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Desiato on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:47 am

Jacques Martin has a successful history of developing defensemen. He has the tools to fix Letang. But this requires buy-in from Bylsma too.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby farnham16 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:37 pm

Desiato wrote:Jacques Martin has a successful history of developing defensemen. He has the tools to fix Letang. But this requires buy-in from Bylsma too.


Yes, there is only so much Martin can do because he's not the head coach. It ultimately ends with Bylsma and how he wants to coach Letang. And so far his strategy with Letang has been to not actually coach him at all. Its been to just let him do whatever he wants to do out on the ice because he's so "dynamic."
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:33 pm

I think the biggest red flag about Letang is how much better and more disciplined the Pens were when he was out of the lineup. Granted, Scuds was there as well, but it's not a coincidence methinks.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:37 pm

Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby the wicked child on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:47 pm

I'd think people would be happy... Shero provided a whipping boy for the next 8 seasons.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Steve on Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:57 pm

As long as a big chunk of our fanbase is as spoiled as it is now - there will never be a shortage of whipping boys.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:06 pm

the wicked child wrote:I'd think people would be happy... Shero provided a whipping boy for the next 8 seasons.


We're happy when the whipping boy makes considerably less money.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby farnham16 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:51 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.


Nah. Taking ice time away when he plays with said stupidity over and over again would help send a message. Coaching is a factor.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:00 pm

farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.


Nah. Taking ice time away when he plays with said stupidity over and over again would help send a message. Coaching is a factor.


Maybe when Michel Therrien gets canned in Montreal he will be up for another spin in Pittsburgh. After all, he's been benching the reigning Norris Trophy winner :lol:

I kid, kill me if Therrien ever becomes head coach again.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby danglesnipe37 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:29 pm

Used to love letang but nowadays no confidence in his ability to play solid defense for an entire game. He is one of the most talented yet unintelligent hockey players I have seen.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:00 pm

farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.


Nah. Taking ice time away when he plays with said stupidity over and over again would help send a message. Coaching is a factor.


So if/when Letang gets benched due to said turnovers every game, who do you blame when he continues to make them?

Again, you can't fix stupid. Benching him won't help him OR the team.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:29 pm

Well if you don need a goal...it will help the team, will it not?
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Pitt87 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:45 pm

farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.


Nah. Taking ice time away when he plays with said stupidity over and over again would help send a message. Coaching is a factor.


Coaching is THE factor... because its the only thing thats been missing for the last 2 years. Its the entire reason that Jacques Martin is here. A little early to tell if its helping, but adjustments are in place.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby llipgh2 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:32 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Letang's problem is himself. No amount of coaching can reverse stupidity and lack of intelligence.


Nah. Taking ice time away when he plays with said stupidity over and over again would help send a message. Coaching is a factor.


Coaching is THE factor... because its the only thing thats been missing for the last 2 years. Its the entire reason that Jacques Martin is here. A little early to tell if its helping, but adjustments are in place.


True, but he isn't the head coach. He can only do what DB lets him.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:02 pm

Coaching seems to be working for everyone but Letang. Which is why I think it's a Letang issue, rather than a coaching issue.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Malkamaniac on Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:13 pm

I understand the warranted value in Letang. That being said, I could do without him. I think Martin is more than equipped to run the powerplay. Letang has the physical skills to do practically anything he wants on the ice. Unfortunately his head is always 4 to 5 steps behind.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:38 am

Personally I think the team has perhaps gone as far as they can go with Letang and Malkin. In the past 4 playoffs, those guys just didn't get it done (granted Geno was hurt in 2011). If they have another early playoff exit this year a la 2010-2012, they'll almost certainly have to move one of those two. Having over 15m tied up in 2 players NOT named Crosby on this team is insane.

Letang's mistakes would be more tolerable if he'd score goals to make up for it. But he never has been a goal scorer, particularly with the man-advantage. What's worse, the opposition is always a threat shorthanded when Letang is on the ice. That's not the case with Martin and Niskanen. I don't know, it seems that with Martin, Nisky, Maatta, Despres, Doumolin, etc. they will have plenty of defensemen who can move the puck after this season. I'd look to move Letang to the Western Conference after this season, in hopes of acquiring a talented young forward and a high draft choice. They will seriously need the cap space next season when Letang's gargantuan cap hit goes into effect.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby Great58 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:48 am

RxBandit66 wrote:Letang's mistakes would be more tolerable if he'd score goals to make up for it. But he never has been a goal scorer, particularly with the man-advantage. What's worse, the opposition is always a threat shorthanded when Letang is on the ice. That's not the case with Martin and Niskanen.

I'm not 100% sold that this is a Kris Letang effect as much as a systems issue and the result of trying to run a PP with 4 forwards. With Malkin on the other point, and a PP that was desperate to score at times last season, it's frankly no wonder that they gave up some shorties along the way. Personally, I prefer Martin quarterbacking the PP and a defenseman on each point. But I don't expect Letang to be traded, and I appear to be in the minority to think that overall that is a good thing.
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Re: Do We Need Letang?

Postby CERV96 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:44 am

Wouldn't mind seeing a poll on this one. No joking aside.
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