Biggest Surprise Player so far?

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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:27 pm

My expectations for Jokinen were regular season success, playoff disappearance. He's on track for that.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:28 pm

No one is really blowing my socks off.... but as far as pleasant surprises go I would say... Jokinen, Niskanen and Fleury, in that order.

Surprises on the negative side would probably just be Kobasew. I didn't expect greatness, but I did expect more.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Can't make a judgment on Kobasew, since he was playing out of his element on Malkin's line before he got hurt. Was never signed to be a top 6 guy, and was looking decent with Sutter before Neal got hurt.

For "surprises", I'd go with Malkin. And it's not a good "surprised".
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:22 pm

I'd have to say Vitale. He really seems to be skating well, is in on the forcheck and has solidified the fourth line. Saw glimpses last year but wasn't even sure if there was a spot for him with some of the new guys brought in. Hope he doesn't lose that spot.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:29 pm

pcm wrote:My expectations for Jokinen were regular season success, playoff disappearance. He's on track for that.


I don't think you can fairly assess Jokinen's ability to perform in the playoffs. His role changed immediately once everyone was healthy last season.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:40 pm

I can assess the way he plays, and see that he's a soft player who gets by on superior hockey sense and above average puck skills. He reads plays very well and thus can get decent opportunities playing against teams that are loose in their own end, especially playing with an unpredictable guy like Malkin. But he doesn't actually create any space on the ice. And in tight checking games, if you're not creating opportunities on your own, then there's not going to be much there for a guy like Jokinen.

Great read by him for the GWG against Boston. But he was useless the whole night before then. I'm not saying theres no spot on this team for him, but I don't expect him to be a productive player on the LW with Malkin and Neal come April. My expectation is that he'll drag that line down, as they do best with a guy who can retrieve pucks for them and open up space. They don't need another guy to carry or shoot the puck, as they've got the covered.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:48 pm

Jim wrote:No one is really blowing my socks off.... but as far as pleasant surprises go I would say... Jokinen, Niskanen and Fleury, in that order.

Surprises on the negative side would probably just be Kobasew. I didn't expect greatness, but I did expect more.


Fleury?!?
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:29 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
Jim wrote:No one is really blowing my socks off.... but as far as pleasant surprises go I would say... Jokinen, Niskanen and Fleury, in that order.

Surprises on the negative side would probably just be Kobasew. I didn't expect greatness, but I did expect more.


Fleury?!?


Yep. Original expectations vs current actual play... he's been a pleasant surprise so far for me.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:40 pm

there's more evidence that jokinen steps up his game in the playoffs than the contrary
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:44 pm

shmenguin wrote:there's more evidence that jokinen steps up his game in the playoffs than the contrary

What sort of evidence? Magic evidence?
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:45 pm

meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:there's more evidence that jokinen steps up his game in the playoffs than the contrary

What sort of evidence? Magic evidence?


His play with Carolina in 2008-2009, for starters
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:47 pm

Jokinen's career ppg in the playoffs drops to @ 80% reg season production. With the penguins, it dropped to 50% and he looked entirely invisible. What evidence are you citing that he steps it up in the playoffs? His run with Carolina in 09 he produced at his standard reg season rate, but he certainly didn't "step it up."
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:48 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:there's more evidence that jokinen steps up his game in the playoffs than the contrary

What sort of evidence? Magic evidence?


His play with Carolina in 2008-2009, for starters

He has a drop in points per game in playoff games vs. regular season. There is certainly more to it than just points, but I don't know that he steps his game up.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:54 pm

He was hurt AND playing a role unsuited for him last year.

I don't think it's fair to say he can't step up. There has been some evidence of him scoring timely goals in the playoffs. His injury and role last year didn't put him in a position to succeed (given the makeup of the tram when healthy)
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:03 pm

MRandall25 wrote:He was hurt AND playing a role unsuited for him last year.

I don't think it's fair to say he can't step up. There has been some evidence of him scoring timely goals in the playoffs. His injury and role last year didn't put him in a position to succeed (given the makeup of the tram when healthy)

Even if you take out last year's playoffs, which he was hurt and playing outside a comfortable role, his point production still drops from regular season to playoffs. I don't really remember what he did in the 08-09 playoffs, but he must have piled up some points before the Hurricanes played the Pens because I don't remember him doing much in the series.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:12 pm

meow wrote: but he must have piled up some points before the Hurricanes played the Pens because I don't remember him doing much in the series.


What is "what Boston fans will say of Letang, Crosby, and Malkin in a few years discussing 2013 playoffs", Alex. :slug:
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Beveridge wrote:
meow wrote: but he must have piled up some points before the Hurricanes played the Pens because I don't remember him doing much in the series.


What is "what Boston fans will say of Letang, Crosby, and Malkin in a few years discussing 2013 playoffs", Alex. :slug:

Image
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:20 pm

$Texas
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:25 pm

meow wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:there's more evidence that jokinen steps up his game in the playoffs than the contrary

What sort of evidence? Magic evidence?


His play with Carolina in 2008-2009, for starters

He has a drop in points per game in playoff games vs. regular season. There is certainly more to it than just points, but I don't know that he steps his game up.


it's pretty simple. jokinen has had 2 meaningful playoff appearances in his career. in one appearance, his goal per game and points per game rose dramatically. and this is over an 18 game period. in the other appearance, he was one point shy of matching his regular season scoring rate. this was over an 8 game period.

there isn't a ton of data either way, but the point stands - if you had to choose one side between playoff performer vs. playoff choker, it's a clear decision.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:29 pm

You must be reading his stats incorrectly. His reg season ppg is @ .6. His best performance in the playoffs in 09, was .6 ppg. Last year, even with an extra goal, he would have only been at .5.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:30 pm

Jokinen is a mid level player making mid level money. You do not expect him to lead the team. That is what the $5M+ players are for.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:34 pm

Claude Giroux, for example.
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:35 pm

Claude the fraud?
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby SolidSnake on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:35 pm

I always considered the Canadian hick to be overrated so this is no surprise to me
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Re: Biggest Surprise Player so far?

Postby meow on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:38 pm

Where's the poll to see where Giroux ends up after he is inevitably traded out of Philly?
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