Clearing cap space?

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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:19 am

Why would the Pens extend him when they have no idea how the cap will be next year? Malkin's and Letang's new cap hit start next year so it would have been financially irresponsible to extend Orpik.

I would bet a month's salary that if the cap goes up enough, Orpik will be the first target of resigning this off-season.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:19 am

Every year that you don't get an extension, you get worse. Crosby has peaked.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:21 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Every year that you don't get an extension, you get worse. Crosby has peaked.


:fist:
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:22 am

sjnhiils wrote:Good response. Thanks for backing up your argument in a reasonable manner without getting like some others on this board.


Again, when you say

Martin and Orpik picked right up from last year and let Datsyuk beat them 1 on 2 for Detroit's 4th goal. Orpik once again had his back to the play. At least Niskanen has a hard shot and can play the power play


... it's impossible to take you seriously, as Paul Martin was the best defenseman on the team, and he and Orpik both excelled together in a shutdown role. You also completely ignore Paul Martin's ability as the point man on the powerplay. The PP actually ran better when it was Martin with 14-87-71-18 instead of Letang. Saying "at least Niskanen has a hard shot" means JACK. ****. when it comes to his ability to play defense. You completely ignored Niskanen's 5 on 5 play, his defensive ability, AND the fact that he was sooooo good last year, he was playing on the bottom pairing when everyone was healthy.

But again, I can't take you seriously when you take one freaking preseason play and say "Oh look, these guys suck".
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:28 am

no name wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I... :face:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

This has to be a troll.


I think you might be wrong about this guy, I don't think he is a troll, i think he actually believes what he is saying makes sence.


More sense than your spelling of "sence"
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Gaucho on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:32 am

Here we go.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby meow on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:32 am

I "think" that sjnhiils "seems" to think "that" Niskanen is a more "integral" part of the team's "future" plans than others on this "board" do. "Not" that there is "anything" wrong with that "."
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby columbia on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:34 am

As they say in Pittsburgh: he needs traded.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby pcm on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:36 am

Beveridge wrote:Why would the Pens extend him when they have no idea how the cap will be next year? Malkin's and Letang's new cap hit start next year so it would have been financially irresponsible to extend Orpik.

I would bet a month's salary that if the cap goes up enough, Orpik will be the first target of resigning this off-season.


The thing is, even if the cap goes all the way up to where it was last year at $70m, which is the the most optimistic projection, the Pens would only have $17m to sign 11 players. They've already got 16+m committed to their defense... all of 4 players, and one of those is Bortuzzo. At most, that gives them $5m to spend on 3 defenseman, one of which needs to be a top 4 guy. Despres is the most likely candidate, and he needs a new contract ($2-3m).

There's just not much room for Orpik in even the most optimistic of cap scenarios. UNLESS, Shero decides he wants to keep Orpik around and moves Martin instead. With the addition of Scuderi, I just don't see any way for both Orpik and Martin to be here next season. One will have to be cut loose.

All of that is to say that I don't see Orpik re-signing at any point during this season.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby meow on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:37 am

columbia wrote:As they say in Pittsburgh: he needs traded.

Redd up yer stuff, Niskanen
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:43 am

pcm wrote:
Beveridge wrote:Why would the Pens extend him when they have no idea how the cap will be next year? Malkin's and Letang's new cap hit start next year so it would have been financially irresponsible to extend Orpik.

I would bet a month's salary that if the cap goes up enough, Orpik will be the first target of resigning this off-season.


The thing is, even if the cap goes all the way up to where it was last year at $70m, which is the the most optimistic projection, the Pens would only have $17m to sign 11 players. They've already got 16+m committed to their defense... all of 4 players, and one of those is Bortuzzo. At most, that gives them $5m to spend on 3 defenseman, one of which needs to be a top 4 guy. Despres is the most likely candidate, and he needs a new contract ($2-3m).

There's just not much room for Orpik in even the most optimistic of cap scenarios. UNLESS, Shero decides he wants to keep Orpik around and moves Martin instead. With the addition of Scuderi, I just don't see any way for both Orpik and Martin to be here next season. One will have to be cut loose.

All of that is to say that I don't see Orpik re-signing at any point during this season.


What do you think a realistic number is for Orpik? I don't think he's going to get a raise from his $3.75 cap hit now.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sil on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:45 am

pcm wrote:
Beveridge wrote:Why would the Pens extend him when they have no idea how the cap will be next year? Malkin's and Letang's new cap hit start next year so it would have been financially irresponsible to extend Orpik.

I would bet a month's salary that if the cap goes up enough, Orpik will be the first target of resigning this off-season.


The thing is, even if the cap goes all the way up to where it was last year at $70m, which is the the most optimistic projection, the Pens would only have $17m to sign 11 players. They've already got 16+m committed to their defense... all of 4 players, and one of those is Bortuzzo. At most, that gives them $5m to spend on 3 defenseman, one of which needs to be a top 4 guy. Despres is the most likely candidate, and he needs a new contract ($2-3m).

There's just not much room for Orpik in even the most optimistic of cap scenarios. UNLESS, Shero decides he wants to keep Orpik around and moves Martin instead. With the addition of Scuderi, I just don't see any way for both Orpik and Martin to be here next season. One will have to be cut loose.

All of that is to say that I don't see Orpik re-signing at any point during this season.


The only other potential way around this that I see is MAF's $5,000,000 coming off the books next season (through either buyout or trade). Not sure if this is pushed from within the org (Hartzell, Murray, Jarry) or from outside the org (trade). It may not happen at all and Orpik just leaves. Defintitely don't want to lose both Oprik and Martin in one year though.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby pcm on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:54 am

I'd say Scuderi's contract is pretty equitable for Orpik, so @ $3.5m + term. Though some teams may covet his physicality and leadership and give him more...

Before Scuderi came, I was hoping Orpik would retire a Pen, for @ $3m per. But with Scuderi here and the glut of young guys coming up, I just don't see the need for another old guy back there for the next 4 years.

He would be missed though, no doubt.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:13 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
count2infinity wrote:whoa... Jim is back 3 and a half years or so later.

Spoiler:
Image


That must have been a hell of a breakfast stout.


That is was... that it was.

Thanks for the welcome back folks!
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:20 pm

Now, on to business. The level to which Orpik is over-rated is astounding.

His physical play: He can't move anyone out from in front of the net. The only thing that he does with regularity is knock opposing players INTO Fleury, the direction the player wants to go anyway. Hitting, people talk and talk about Oprik trucking guys, yet he never does. Yes, yes, he has one great shift in the final a few years ago. Other than that... no. Pascal Dupuis lays out more and bigger hits than Orpik does.

His defensive play: He looks lost most of the time. He plays the man, so he rarely knows where the puck is. He isn't all that great at playing the man so he rarely knows where the man is either.

He is basically a rod hockey player. If you are right where Oprik is, or in the line, then he can defend against you. If you are slightly off from that or mobile at all... he is not much of a threat.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:46 pm

so apparently we need orpik, martin was our best guy last year and letang and scuderi are locked into contracts. i sort of bought into the whole "young d-men are valuable" thing when we drafted pouliot, but i don't really know how this could all play out without getting a poor return on our investment for these young guys.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:21 pm

shmenguin wrote:so apparently we need orpik, martin was our best guy last year and letang and scuderi are locked into contracts. i sort of bought into the whole "young d-men are valuable" thing when we drafted pouliot, but i don't really know how this could all play out without getting a poor return on our investment for these young guys.


I would love to see both Maatta and Despres in the lineup come opening night. Let Bortuzzo be the 7th Dman.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby BCG51585 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:49 pm

I used to think for sure that there was NO CHANCE Orpik would be traded. I still think it is unlikely but I could see the logic in it if Maatta and Dumoulin are ready NOW. It makes sense because you get the most value from Orpik and if you are going to let him walk after the season anyhow, his peak value is right now.

That said, it still makes the most sense to trade Niskanen if you need to make room for those younger guys because Orpik is a better player.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby DelPen on Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:53 pm

BCG51585 wrote:I used to think for sure that there was NO CHANCE Orpik would be traded. I still think it is unlikely but I could see the logic in it if Maatta and Dumoulin are ready NOW. It makes sense because you get the most value from Orpik and if you are going to let him walk after the season anyhow, his peak value is right now.

That said, it still makes the most sense to trade Niskanen if you need to make room for those younger guys because Orpik is a better player.


We would need to trade for a player like Orpik anyways at the deadline, might as well keep him and let him walk which is fine.

No one looks at their roster and says "you know who would put us over the top, Matt Niskanen!" No offense to Nisky but he's expendable right now because of his contract.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:55 pm

End of the day, Orpik isn't going anywhere this year.

I think it will take a major pay cut on his end (he'll get a raise on the open market) if he wants to remain a Pen next year and further. If he leaves, we got guys (Bort, Despres, Doulimin, Harrington) that are going to have another year of ahl/pro experience under their belt.

I only see win/win.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:07 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
sjnhiils wrote:Good response. Thanks for backing up your argument in a reasonable manner without getting like some others on this board.


Again, when you say

Martin and Orpik picked right up from last year and let Datsyuk beat them 1 on 2 for Detroit's 4th goal. Orpik once again had his back to the play. At least Niskanen has a hard shot and can play the power play


... it's impossible to take you seriously, as Paul Martin was the best defenseman on the team, and he and Orpik both excelled together in a shutdown role. You also completely ignore Paul Martin's ability as the point man on the powerplay. The PP actually ran better when it was Martin with 14-87-71-18 instead of Letang. Saying "at least Niskanen has a hard shot" means JACK. ****. when it comes to his ability to play defense. You completely ignored Niskanen's 5 on 5 play, his defensive ability, AND the fact that he was sooooo good last year, he was playing on the bottom pairing when everyone was healthy.

But again, I can't take you seriously when you take one freaking preseason play and say "Oh look, these guys suck".

But thats exactly what you did in the Blue Jackets preseason game thread when you stated that you could make a case for Niskanen being traded after the first goal. Then you got mad when someone went against you on liking Kobasew and you said that you were just stating an opinion and that it didnt deserve a "murphydump" I guess it was wrong for him to do it then, but when I state my opinion on Orpik, you ard others are free to "murphydump" all you want
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:11 pm

If that was the only thing you took away from my post in the CBJ thread, I can't help you. You clearly missed everything else about Niskanen in that post.

If you had taken the time, you would've seen I said he looked all out ofsorts during the game. He was playing like he had his tail bbetween his legs, like he knows he's the odd man out. It wasn't just the first goal. But you clearly ignored it, so your loss.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:32 pm

MRandall25 wrote:If that was the only thing you took away from my post in the CBJ thread, I can't help you. You clearly missed everything else about Niskanen in that post.

If you had taken the time, you would've seen I said he looked all out ofsorts during the game. He was playing like he had his tail bbetween his legs, like he knows he's the odd man out. It wasn't just the first goal. But you clearly ignored it, so your loss.

You clearly missed everything else I said about Niskanen in how many posts then accused me of saying Niskanen was better because he had a "better shot" You ignored everything else. your loss!!!
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:43 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
shmenguin wrote:so apparently we need orpik, martin was our best guy last year and letang and scuderi are locked into contracts. i sort of bought into the whole "young d-men are valuable" thing when we drafted pouliot, but i don't really know how this could all play out without getting a poor return on our investment for these young guys.


I would love to see both Maatta and Despres in the lineup come opening night. Let Bortuzzo be the 7th Dman.


Bortuzzo is not gonna be the 7th dman. He eithe plays or he's traded. He does no good sitting on the bench. He's an unknown (somewhat) and you can't send him down anymore.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby pcm on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:36 am

Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Should be our 5-6-7. But Despres will get sent down and Niskanen will be #5 instead.

The logjam at D is threatening to hold back some players... Bortuzzo, Despres, Dumoulin, maybe even Maata, all should be getting NHL minutes.
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