Free agency

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Free agency

Postby Kraftster on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:29 am

I'd like to see the Pens look at Keith Ballard, who should come affordably, if Vancouver buys him out. Before he got lost in Vancouver, he was basically a slightly less skilled but more physical Paul Martin.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,920
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Free agency

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:35 am

Ballard is arguably worse for us than Niskanen.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,888
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Free agency

Postby Kraftster on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 am

MRandall25 wrote:Ballard is arguably worse for us than Niskanen.


No?
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,920
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:50 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Beveridge wrote:Jussi for one year at 2.1 is worth it. You know both Sid and Geno are going to miss time. He can fill in.


Yeah, how is a guy who can play virtually every forward position on the ice over-valued at $2M? Actually, the combo of Fleury/Jokinen will get you a lot of extra points from the shootout alone.

A better question--why do we think $2M is a lot of money...? A lot of scrubs make that much, guys who aren't 2 years removed from a 60+ pt., 30 goal scoring campaign. We could do a lot worse than Jokinen in free agency.


We can call it a difference of opinion. I am in the opinion that in a top 6 role, he is not going to be able to put in 20-25 goals, which is my definition of a true top 6 guy. You look in 2011-2012, we had Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, Dupuis, and Staal all hit 25 goals (we led league in scoring). You look at 2010-2011, Croby hit 32 in half a season, Kunitz hit 23, and Kennedy hit 21. Nobody else had 20. We were middle of the pack, 13th in scoring, almost a half goal a game lower than 2011-2012. You look at the Cup year, we had Malkin, Crosby, Sykora, and Staal all score 20 goals. Kennedy, Fedotenko, and Satan were all easily in reach but they each only played about 65 out of 82 games (Satan 17 in 65, Feds 16 in 65, TK 15 in 67).

Back to Jokinen, he scored 7 goals in 10 games, and was ice cold in the playoffs. The difference....he was more on the wing in the playoffs. He played almost exclusively at center while Crosby was out the end of the season. He played almost exclusively at wing (sans game 1 versus Isles, where he got 2 assists, 2 of his 3 playoff points). Being able to play all 3 positions and play all 3 positions effectively is two different stories. Dustin Jeffrey can play all 3 positions as far as I am aware, is decent on face-offs, and costs about 1.4mil less.

To me the ultimate measuring stick is, if you replace Dupuis with Jokinen, is the team better or worse? I don't think many people are going to say the team is better. So why settle for a downgrade if you can make a move to improve the team. You look at the roster I put together above. Highly unlikely we could get Clarkson for 4mil, but, I dumped Jokinen and Vitale, and my roster only has 260K left to the cap. Look at it differently, Dupuis signs for 4mil a season instead of Clarkson. If that were to happen, with the roster I have, we would be over the cap Jokinen on the team. Yes, I added two other players for about 2mil as well. Point is, money is tight. The Pens need to make sure the players they have fit their roles, not just using them because they have them. I think the Pens could make a lot of smaller moves to improve the team, but they don't. Vitale has shown so much we are wanting to resign Adams....may not seem like much, but his contract is one-way 550K. Dustin Jeffrey has some skill, but kind of like TK, doesn't really have a place that is ideal for him in the lineup. Harry Z, great, we got an agitator...all 5'11" of him to go with all our other smallish, scrappy undersized forwards.
FLPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,026
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Davie, Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Free agency

Postby Cr@zy871 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:51 am

Kraftster wrote:I'd like to see the Pens look at Keith Ballard, who should come affordably, if Vancouver buys him out. Before he got lost in Vancouver, he was basically a slightly less skilled but more physical Paul Martin.


Was it TV that Ballard tried to behead with his stick a few years back in his Florida days?
Cr@zy871
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:29 am
Location: LKN

Re: Free agency

Postby Nizzy on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:55 am

I'd bring back Iglina.
Nizzy
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,596
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Steel City

Re: Free agency

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:59 am

Cr@zy871 wrote:
Kraftster wrote:I'd like to see the Pens look at Keith Ballard, who should come affordably, if Vancouver buys him out. Before he got lost in Vancouver, he was basically a slightly less skilled but more physical Paul Martin.


Was it TV that Ballard tried to behead with his stick a few years back in his Florida days?

Pretty sure it was :lol:

That's just what we need, our only reliable goalie having night terrors.
GSdrums87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,167
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:31 am

Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.
FLPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,026
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Davie, Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:32 am

GSdrums87 wrote:
Cr@zy871 wrote:
Kraftster wrote:I'd like to see the Pens look at Keith Ballard, who should come affordably, if Vancouver buys him out. Before he got lost in Vancouver, he was basically a slightly less skilled but more physical Paul Martin.


Was it TV that Ballard tried to behead with his stick a few years back in his Florida days?

Pretty sure it was :lol:

That's just what we need, our only reliable goalie having night terrors.


Yes, it was Vokoun: http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=300670
FLPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,026
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Davie, Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Free agency

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:36 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.

I get a kick out of people here. You "threw up in your mouth" reading that. He may not be the best option or a first choice, but he's far from a bad choice, and extremely far from vomit-inducing. It's hyperbole, I get it. But come on...
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,839
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Free agency

Postby Pitts on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:39 am

Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.

:thumb:
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,559
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Free agency

Postby Beveridge on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:45 am

I think it was in one of the threads that the question is posed, but I'd rather have Iggy at 5 million for 2 years than Dupuis at 5 million for 4 years.

I really think Dupuis is going to get close to 5 from some team.
Beveridge
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,445
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:38 pm
Location: Punxsutawney

Re: Free agency

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:52 am

Pitts wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.

:thumb:

What's funny is that, had Iginla played for Boston and done what he did with Pittsburgh, Penguins fans right now would be drooling at an opportunity to sign him as a free agent. But, as it goes with fans, a player is either supremely overrated or underrated. In this case, Iginla is being underrated. He's not Iginla of five years ago, but he's a valuable player to have in the mix, and if he replaces Dupuis, there's a good chance he'll be on Crosby's right wing, which is his natural position, which would put him in a better position to succeed.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,839
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Free agency

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:57 am

Really? Iginla is an afterthough around the league when talking about Pending free agents. Iginla, Clowe, Morrow are all afterthoughts, 6 months ago, no one would have thought that, but they haven't really done anything in that time period.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 52,303
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Free agency

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:01 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Really? Iginla is an afterthough around the league when talking about Pending free agents. Iginla, Clowe, Morrow are all afterthoughts, 6 months ago, no one would have thought that, but they haven't really done anything in that time period.

He is an afterthought, but he's still Jarome Iginla and will still make nice coin on his next contract. He's far from vomit-inducing, is my point.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,839
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Free agency

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:02 pm

Well yeah, that post about vomiting was pretty absurd. He can still contribute something to any team in the league, he's just not top prize any more.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 52,303
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Free agency

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:06 pm

Beveridge wrote:I think it was in one of the threads that the question is posed, but I'd rather have Iggy at 5 million for 2 years than Dupuis at 5 million for 4 years.

I really think Dupuis is going to get close to 5 from some team.


I made the comment that I'd rather sign Iginla at $4 million for 1 or 2 years than sign Dupuis for the same cap hit for 4 years. Same concept.
Crankshaft
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,036
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:35 pm

Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:11 pm

Defence21 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.

I get a kick out of people here. You "threw up in your mouth" reading that. He may not be the best option or a first choice, but he's far from a bad choice, and extremely far from vomit-inducing. It's hyperbole, I get it. But come on...


Again, everyone has their opinion. Not saying mine is right. As a PP guy, sure. But he was nothing special at even strength. Playoffs and regular season, he scored 9 goals; 7 were on the power-play. I keep saying this team needs to add a "tougher, skilled forward," unfortunately, I don't think Iginla plays that type of game anymore, or is seriously on the decline. I watched the guy time and time again lose puck battles along the boards and get knocked off the puck. Iginla of 5 years ago in a heartbeat, but not the Iginla I saw play for the Pens. Not to mention, why bother having him in the top-6 if Bylsma is going to misuse him constantly. He never tried him with Crosby at all.

I just want the Pens to go out and make some moves to fit what the team needs to be better, and that isn't saying they need to go out 5 million dollars on a player. Some examples:

-Jussi Jokinen is a center. Sure he can play wing, but he isn't as effective there (see playoffs). Too expensive luxury player. Can fill his role cheaper.
-Joe Vitale, from my observations, was being groomed to take over the 4th line C duties from Adams. He hasn't progressed, and Pens are looking to resign Adams.
-Dustin Jeffrey, I really, really like. I think he can be more than a 3rd/4th line guy, but I don't think he is going to get a consistent look in the top 6.
-Harry Zolnierczyk....why do we need another small forward on our 4th line.

Go out and get some bigger bodies for the 4th line. Go out and get some guys who can PK, especially if we lose Dupuis and/or Cooke. The Pens worry so much about keeping their core that they just scrap together whatever parts they have laying around for the 3rd and 4th lines. It would not take them much to build a decent 3rd line that could be a defensive specialist line. Sutter and Cooke are fine there. Go find someone else like a Nystrom or other player that can help that line cycle, play responsible defense, and score some goals too. It wouldn't take much to upgrade the 4th line with a bit more size, and use them to go out and hit and wear opponents down a bit, without taking stupid penalties. A guy like Jerred Smithson whose 6'3"/6'4", great PK guy, blocks shots, throws hits. The Pens would rather keep a guy with NHL experience around and plug him into a role he is really not suited for, instead of going out and getting somebody that is a better fit for the same money or giving a guy from the minors a chance to step in.
FLPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,026
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Davie, Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Free agency

Postby pens2005 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:19 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.


I think we should bring him back, too.
pens2005
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,236
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:54 pm

Re: Free agency

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:32 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.

I get a kick out of people here. You "threw up in your mouth" reading that. He may not be the best option or a first choice, but he's far from a bad choice, and extremely far from vomit-inducing. It's hyperbole, I get it. But come on...


Again, everyone has their opinion. Not saying mine is right. As a PP guy, sure. But he was nothing special at even strength. Playoffs and regular season, he scored 9 goals; 7 were on the power-play. I keep saying this team needs to add a "tougher, skilled forward," unfortunately, I don't think Iginla plays that type of game anymore, or is seriously on the decline. I watched the guy time and time again lose puck battles along the boards and get knocked off the puck. Iginla of 5 years ago in a heartbeat, but not the Iginla I saw play for the Pens. Not to mention, why bother having him in the top-6 if Bylsma is going to misuse him constantly. He never tried him with Crosby at all.

I just want the Pens to go out and make some moves to fit what the team needs to be better, and that isn't saying they need to go out 5 million dollars on a player. Some examples:

-Jussi Jokinen is a center. Sure he can play wing, but he isn't as effective there (see playoffs). Too expensive luxury player. Can fill his role cheaper.
-Joe Vitale, from my observations, was being groomed to take over the 4th line C duties from Adams. He hasn't progressed, and Pens are looking to resign Adams.
-Dustin Jeffrey, I really, really like. I think he can be more than a 3rd/4th line guy, but I don't think he is going to get a consistent look in the top 6.
-Harry Zolnierczyk....why do we need another small forward on our 4th line.

Go out and get some bigger bodies for the 4th line. Go out and get some guys who can PK, especially if we lose Dupuis and/or Cooke. The Pens worry so much about keeping their core that they just scrap together whatever parts they have laying around for the 3rd and 4th lines. It would not take them much to build a decent 3rd line that could be a defensive specialist line. Sutter and Cooke are fine there. Go find someone else like a Nystrom or other player that can help that line cycle, play responsible defense, and score some goals too. It wouldn't take much to upgrade the 4th line with a bit more size, and use them to go out and hit and wear opponents down a bit, without taking stupid penalties. A guy like Jerred Smithson whose 6'3"/6'4", great PK guy, blocks shots, throws hits. The Pens would rather keep a guy with NHL experience around and plug him into a role he is really not suited for, instead of going out and getting somebody that is a better fit for the same money or giving a guy from the minors a chance to step in.

Definitely agree that opinions are like arseholes -- we all have one and they all stink. But I disagree with most evrything else...

If Iginla returns, it most likely will be because Dupuis leaves. If that's the case, he'll more than likely be played in his natural RW position, which will allow him to play with Crosby, and to have more success in puck battles along the boards (where playing your natural wing might have the most benefits). Do I see him as an elite player? No, but the Penguins can't afford another elite player and I suspect he'd be a better player on that line than most any other free agent within the scope of reality.

As for your points...

- Jokinen is a center and I could take or leave him. He wasn't given much of a chance on a scoring line with a star center, so let's not rule out how effective he could be there. That said, if he goes (which I doubt happens), I won't be happy or mad. I'll be indifferent.
- Vitale has been the fourth line center, but was bumped by more experienced players in the playoffs. I don't like that this happened, but it did. Still, Adams is not a center and Vitale will be centering the fourth line again this season, as he did all last season.
- I don't disagree on Jeffrey.
- Who says Zolnierczyk even makes the big club? They acquired him in a trade for a never-will-be. He's depth. Maybe he proves his way onto the roster. Maybe not. Either way, he's fast and physical, which are things you want out of your fourth liners -- regardless of size.

- Bylsma's system isn't built for slower, bigger players, hence the smaller sized roster built around skating. Glass, a bigger, slower player was brought in last summer and look what happened. It didn't work.
- You suggest adding third liners who can PK and score goals will be easy. I disagree. It will be extremely difficult to add these players, given that they're a rare commodity. The Penguins fetched a 2nd rounder for TK (!!), who will be making at least $2 million per season, despite being a healthy scratch during some of the playoff games.
- Smithson would be nice.
- Pens try to keep players whom they are familiar with and know what they can bring to the table. For example, they know Adams is limited, but in his role, he works perfectly (even if many fans disagree). There's no guarantee that will be the case with external free agents (see Glass, for example).
- Lastly, I disgaree that the third/fourth lines are a jumbled mess. Cooke-Sutter-TK was fine until TK stopped playing, and then Bylsma was left to fill gaps. The fourth line of Adams-Vitale-Glass has size (Glass), grit (all three), speed (Vitale), and defensive awareness (Vitale and Adams). It's more similar to most fourth lines than you might think. And, again, salary cap plays into this, When you've got a lot of money tied up in the top liners and top defenders, the bottom lines and bottom defense pairs won't be nearly as balanced as on other teams, where they space their salaries out much more evenly.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,839
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Free agency

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:35 pm

Between the way Iginla played for us down the stretch and the amount of money someone else will pay him, I can understand why discussion of bringing him back here has been virtually as non-existent as he was in the playoffs.

Not only was he slow, but he was so weak on the forecheck and on the boards that he really did hurt us out there. Puck possession team... he didn't help us get or keep the puck.
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,561
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Free agency

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:40 pm

I'd be real intrigued to see how much Briere would demand on the open market. I'd take Briere in a heartbeat and he can quarterback that PP much more effectively than Letang. A Briere-Martin pairing on the top PP could be very good
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,561
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Free agency

Postby Kraftster on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:45 pm

Defence21 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'd bring back Iglina.


I just threw up in my mouth reading that.

I get a kick out of people here. You "threw up in your mouth" reading that. He may not be the best option or a first choice, but he's far from a bad choice, and extremely far from vomit-inducing. It's hyperbole, I get it. But come on...


Again, everyone has their opinion. Not saying mine is right. As a PP guy, sure. But he was nothing special at even strength. Playoffs and regular season, he scored 9 goals; 7 were on the power-play. I keep saying this team needs to add a "tougher, skilled forward," unfortunately, I don't think Iginla plays that type of game anymore, or is seriously on the decline. I watched the guy time and time again lose puck battles along the boards and get knocked off the puck. Iginla of 5 years ago in a heartbeat, but not the Iginla I saw play for the Pens. Not to mention, why bother having him in the top-6 if Bylsma is going to misuse him constantly. He never tried him with Crosby at all.

I just want the Pens to go out and make some moves to fit what the team needs to be better, and that isn't saying they need to go out 5 million dollars on a player. Some examples:

-Jussi Jokinen is a center. Sure he can play wing, but he isn't as effective there (see playoffs). Too expensive luxury player. Can fill his role cheaper.
-Joe Vitale, from my observations, was being groomed to take over the 4th line C duties from Adams. He hasn't progressed, and Pens are looking to resign Adams.
-Dustin Jeffrey, I really, really like. I think he can be more than a 3rd/4th line guy, but I don't think he is going to get a consistent look in the top 6.
-Harry Zolnierczyk....why do we need another small forward on our 4th line.

Go out and get some bigger bodies for the 4th line. Go out and get some guys who can PK, especially if we lose Dupuis and/or Cooke. The Pens worry so much about keeping their core that they just scrap together whatever parts they have laying around for the 3rd and 4th lines. It would not take them much to build a decent 3rd line that could be a defensive specialist line. Sutter and Cooke are fine there. Go find someone else like a Nystrom or other player that can help that line cycle, play responsible defense, and score some goals too. It wouldn't take much to upgrade the 4th line with a bit more size, and use them to go out and hit and wear opponents down a bit, without taking stupid penalties. A guy like Jerred Smithson whose 6'3"/6'4", great PK guy, blocks shots, throws hits. The Pens would rather keep a guy with NHL experience around and plug him into a role he is really not suited for, instead of going out and getting somebody that is a better fit for the same money or giving a guy from the minors a chance to step in.


- Bylsma's system isn't built for slower, bigger players, hence the smaller sized roster built around skating. Glass, a bigger, slower player was brought in last summer and look what happened. It didn't work.
- You suggest adding third liners who can PK and score goals will be easy. I disagree. It will be extremely difficult to add these players, given that they're a rare commodity. The Penguins fetched a 2nd rounder for TK (!!), who will be making at least $2 million per season, despite being a healthy scratch during some of the playoff games.



These two points. Exactly these two points.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,920
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Free agency

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:02 pm

I thought Iginla was an absolute liability in the playoffs. I kept harping on the fact that if you removed the name on the jersey, everyone would've been begging for the Pens to bench him for clearly better options.

All of that not withstanding, the dude is old, on a team that is very old. I keep cracking up at everyone on these threads wanting to re-sign these rental players. Ray brought them in to make a run at the cup. You never hear him ever mention signing any of them for a reason. No more 30+ year old players please. I don't want to see anyone older than 28 even being considered.
RisslingsMissingTeeth
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Free agency

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:02 pm

The USS Hal Gill just got put on waivers today. He's making 2 million and is a UFA next year. Gill is still money on the PK, do we try it?
FallenHero96
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,631
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

e-mail