Free agency

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Re: Free agency

Postby shmenguin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:22 pm

Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:it's cute for shero to try to tool around with the 4th line to make it something greater than the sum of its parts, but you can't run from that fact that two thirds of the line is adams and glass. nothing they do with that third spot is going to matter.

You're right. They probably should give up. There's no way Adams or Glass, two horrible players with zero redeeming qualities could ever be compensated for by any fourth liner, ever.


all it takes is one guy to hamstring an entire line. in this case, that one guy even has an understudy. but we've been through this adams thing before.

i'm wondering what the team's issue with vitale is. there must be something going on with him off the ice.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:21 am

mikey287 wrote:It's not that it's worth bumping Vitale, but I just wonder how much the organization trusts Vitale. I, personally, like Vitale. But I get the vibe that the organization isn't sold on him. Macenauer would be direct competition to him. Fourth line ice time is limited by skill and lack of versatility. Adding a LHS center that is good at faceoffs to a line with a RHS center/winger that is good at faceoffs, allows for more freedom in terms of situational placement. Faceoffs on Vitale's "wrong side" (which is also, Adams' wrong side, for what it's worth), would no longer have to be taken by a weak faceoff taker in Tanner Glass. Continues to bolster speed and cycling ability. Tanner Glass is strong, Vitale and Mace are both industrial and show good work with their feet/lower body strength. Establishing the cycle for a line with limited puck skills is a great way to establish puck possession and manufacture offense out of inorganic situations.


Cheers Mikey! Manufacturing offense (even a basic cycle) seems unlikely with Mace or Vitale as I don't recall many times Adams or Glass possessed the puck in the opposing end... :pop:

It bothers me as I am a fan of Vitale, does anyone have any info or theories as to why the organisation lacks trust in him? I've not seen anything obvious in his play on the ice and he seems to have all the tools to have made Adams expendable a few years ago. I don't hate Adams but would love to know why Adams V2.0 hasn't taken over the 4th line centre and PK role :?
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Re: Free agency

Postby shmenguin on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:22 am

don't really know where to put this:

Image

i don't love Corsi, but that's still a little jarring. basically, the blue line is top 6 and the red line is bottom 6. i suppose it mainly illustrates that staal was really good.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Rylan on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:32 am

I think what it shows was that Staal was playing out of position in the lineup. He was a top 2 line center on a team with 2 top centers. He was able to fill the gap much better than Sutter. Sutter is the prototypical third line center capable of high quality defense with a the ability to chip in offensively. Staal was an extreme rarity in a salary cap era.
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Re: Free agency

Postby sil on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:07 pm

As the previous poster said...it indicates to me that the penguins, without top-2 centers, looked pretty dreadful. When Staal was still here...even when Sid and Geno were both out...we still had a top-2 center in Staal. Can't say that anymore.
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Re: Free agency

Postby tfrizz on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:18 pm

Rylan wrote:I think what it shows was that Staal was playing out of position in the lineup. He was a top 2 line center on a team with 2 top centers. He was able to fill the gap much better than Sutter. Sutter is the prototypical third line center capable of high quality defense with a the ability to chip in offensively. Staal was an extreme rarity in a salary cap era.


:thumb:

Staal was a 2nd line center playing on the 3rd line. He made it pretty clear that he wasn't interested in re-signing with the Pens, so I was (and still am) thrilled to have gotten a solid 3rd line center back in Sutter.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:34 pm

I think i illustrates that when two players miss a handful of games, the stats fromthose games are pretty meaningless.
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Re: Free agency

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:56 pm

Probably been mentioned, but should the pens look at Damien Brunner again? I know Shero was after him previously. Maybe trade Orpik for a draft pick to free up space. If not maybe Orpik to the Isles for Okposo? With Scuderi here now, I dont see a role or a need for Orpik and his $3.75 million
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Re: Free agency

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:58 pm

sjnhiils wrote:Probably been mentioned, but should the pens look at Damien Brunner again? I know Shero was after him previously. Maybe trade Orpik for a draft pick to free up space. If not maybe Orpik to the Isles for Okposo? With Scuderi here now, I dont see a role or a need for Orpik and his $3.75 million


I highly doubt you'll see Orpik moved before the beginning of the season. Also, I highly doubt the Islanders would trade Okposo for him.
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Re: Free agency

Postby skullman80 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:59 pm

Why would the Isels trade Okpos for Orpik? Who is eating the minutes up on defense if Orpik is traded. I mean Orpik isn't a top 2 guy, but he eats alot of minutes.
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Re: Free agency

Postby pcm on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:40 pm

skullman80 wrote: Who is eating the minutes up on defense if Orpik is traded. I mean Orpik isn't a top 2 guy, but he eats alot of minutes.


Scuderi averaged about 30 seconds TOI/G less than Orpik. He can pretty easily slide into that #3 dman role. Plus, Despres is ready to play top 4 minutes.

I think this team could lose either Orpik or Martin and still have a better defense than last year. Crazy.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Defence21 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:10 pm

sjnhiils wrote:Probably been mentioned, but should the pens look at Damien Brunner again? I know Shero was after him previously. Maybe trade Orpik for a draft pick to free up space. If not maybe Orpik to the Isles for Okposo? With Scuderi here now, I dont see a role or a need for Orpik and his $3.75 million

No need to get smaller/softer/more skilled. The Penguins will score enough goals ad have enough players to fill top-six roles. They're lacking grit/sandpaper for the bottom six, particularly on the third line. Brunner doesn't help this. Trading Orpik might become the "in" topic over the coming months, but I think he retires a Penguin. Shero has shown much loyalty to his players, particularly those who have helped him in the past via taking less than market value, which is exactly what Orpik did with his most recent contract. Shero will clear space with "unimportant" players, such as Niskanen and/or Glass, and by waiving (if necessary) players, such as Jeffrey and D'Agostini.

If Shero targets any outside help at this point, it better be someone to beef up the third line, as a trio of Sutter, Jokinen/Bennett, and D'Agostini/Jeffrey will get pushed around pretty handily.
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Re: Free agency

Postby pens_CT on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:27 pm

Is Dan Cleary is still available ?
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Re: Free agency

Postby mikey287 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:20 pm

pens_CT wrote:Is Dan Cleary is still available ?


Yes, but not really. He's sitting by his phone waiting for the Red Wings to call him back. Unclear if he's willing to play anywhere else.
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Re: Free agency

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:57 pm

I would not mind somehow fitting mason Raymond onto the roster.
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Re: Free agency

Postby pcm on Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:37 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:I would not mind somehow fitting mason Raymond onto the roster.


We already signed a Tyler Kennedy replacement in D'Agostino.
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Re: Free agency

Postby mikey287 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:00 pm

pcm wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I would not mind somehow fitting mason Raymond onto the roster.


We already signed a Tyler Kennedy replacement in D'Agostino.


Raymond is more similar to TK than D'Agostini is, to be fair.
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