Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:20 am

Guinness wrote:I guess it depends on your definition of "wholesale changes" and "blowing the team up".

Shero has interviews to conduct. He has decisions to make. He's not looking at the roster on a NHL13 screen. Maybe Letang takes a reasonable contract to stay here, and maybe a new coach settles his game down or, more aptly, implements a system which diminishes his errors. Maybe that new coach does the same for Fleury. Or maybe he decides one or the other - or both - aren't going to fit going forward.

Only thing I know is, if Shero throws a hissy fit and starts moving pieces of an ECF finalist team out like folks around here would (understandably, as fans) want to, he deserves to be fired.

The job is not to be a fan. It's to be a manager.

:thumb: The three items he needs to address, probably in this order (1) The coach (2) MAF and (3) Letang. The remaining issues are who of the remaining UFA's he should sign. Whoever he picks as the new coach might want some say in who the goalie is, rather than be left with a 37 yr old goalie, and no clear NHL backup.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Guinness on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:21 am

shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building. They could as easily be up 3-1 in this series right now as they are golfing. Granted, they're golfing. I just don't see a gigantic roster shake up, myself. There will be changes, maybe even some big ones, but I think those changes will be more about the cap than about blowing up an ECF roster.

Again, I guess it depends on what one means by "blow it up". I take that to mean moving key pieces out of the locker room. I think that's a mistake.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:22 am

iceolater wrote:Head coach: Ruff Tippett John Stevens
Malkin: Trade to LA for Bernier n Kopitar n pick
Letang: Trade to Ducks for Bobby Ryan
Dont resign Cooke: Go after Hawks Bickell (This team needs infront of net toughness n grit w goal scoring ability.
Look for trade offers on Kunitz n Neil (he cant play without Malkin)
Trade Fluery to Minnesota. They are looking for a goalie (Picks n Clutterbuck who would be our new Cooke)
Bennett Bortuzzo Depres : promote full time
Gone w no offers: Adams Kennedy Cooke Iginla
Offers: Murray n Morrow (He gets in the face and brings leadership which they will need.)

Going for that 2014 NHL draft lottery pick :face:
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:30 am

Guinness wrote:They could as easily be up 3-1 in this series right now as they are golfing.


that's just an impossible statement to believe when a team scores 2 goals in 14 periods.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby skullman80 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:31 am

shmenguin wrote:
Guinness wrote:They could as easily be up 3-1 in this series right now as they are golfing.


that's just an impossible statement to believe when a team scores 2 goals in 14 periods.


Yeah I agree. The Bruins made us their ***** pretty much. You can coulda woulda shoulda, but it comes down to they just didn't. The Bruins had a perfect game plan and the Penguins had absolutely no answer for it.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Defence21 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:40 am

KG wrote:Bernier in LA is available. I know that Lombardi likes Kunitz. A Kunitz for Bernier swap could work and it would save cap space.

Trade MAF for a package of picks/prospects possibly a goalie.
Trade Letang for as much as you can get. Need to get deeper.

DB and staff needs to go. Time for some structure and discipline. Lindy Ruff...(Dave Tippet would be great as well, however he is most likely not leaving)...

This actually makes a lot of sense. I'd hate to lose Kunitz, as he's one of my favorites and plays the game the way it should be played. But he's also getting older, has one year left on his contract, and might be entering his last year with the Penguins, anyway.

As Kovy27 said, a Letang for Ryan swap makes sense for both teams.

Also, trade Fleury to a team like Calgary or Edmonton.

Out: Kunitz, Letang, Fleury
In: Ryan, Bernier, ??
Saved: cap space.

Put Ryan on the right side of Crosby and a re-signed Dupuis. Let Bennett find a home with Malkin and Neal. Re-sign Cooke and Morrow to make up a third line with Sutter. Jokinen, Vitale and Glass as the fourth line.

On defense, you keep Martin and Orpik together. Hang on to Murray and pair with Niskanen as the third grouping. Promote Despres to the second unit and acquire someone to help ease him along. Lose Engelland, and re-sign Eaton as a 7th on the cheap.

Vokoun and Bernier split time, with the better of the two playing in the playoffs.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Defence21 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:44 am

shmenguin wrote:
Guinness wrote:They could as easily be up 3-1 in this series right now as they are golfing.


that's just an impossible statement to believe when a team scores 2 goals in 14 periods.

I get where Guinness is coming from, as the Penguins played exceptionally well in the first two periods of Game 1, and easily could have taken a lead had they gotten a few bounces. They didn't, they got frustrated, and they lost 3-1, setting the stage for the Game 2 debachle. But Game 3, again, could have been a Pens win, and even some Bruins, including Marchand, said the Penguins deserved to win that one. Game 4 was a 1-0 loss that featured some strong play by the Penguins.

In the end, you've got to credit the Bruins for absolutely shutting down the Penguins, but it's not hard to see how the Penguins could have kept this alive, while also having a 3-1 lead...
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:44 am

I was going to post five spoilers that all were a deviation on "Fire HCDB", but it seemed like such "low hanging fruit"
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:46 am

Defence21 wrote:
KG wrote:Bernier in LA is available. I know that Lombardi likes Kunitz. A Kunitz for Bernier swap could work and it would save cap space.

Trade MAF for a package of picks/prospects possibly a goalie.
Trade Letang for as much as you can get. Need to get deeper.

DB and staff needs to go. Time for some structure and discipline. Lindy Ruff...(Dave Tippet would be great as well, however he is most likely not leaving)...

This actually makes a lot of sense. I'd hate to lose Kunitz, as he's one of my favorites and plays the game the way it should be played. But he's also getting older, has one year left on his contract, and might be entering his last year with the Penguins, anyway.

As Kovy27 said, a Letang for Ryan swap makes sense for both teams.

Also, trade Fleury to a team like Calgary or Edmonton.

Out: Kunitz, Letang, Fleury
In: Ryan, Bernier, ??
Saved: cap space.

Put Ryan on the right side of Crosby and a re-signed Dupuis. Let Bennett find a home with Malkin and Neal. Re-sign Cooke and Morrow to make up a third line with Sutter. Jokinen, Vitale and Glass as the fourth line.

On defense, you keep Martin and Orpik together. Hang on to Murray and pair with Niskanen as the third grouping. Promote Despres to the second unit and acquire someone to help ease him along. Lose Engelland, and re-sign Eaton as a 7th on the cheap.

Vokoun and Bernier split time, with the better of the two playing in the playoffs.


Nice work, Defence

The only issue I have is potentially paying Murray 2 mill plus to be a #5
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Steve on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:48 am

The series could easily be 2-2 right now, but if we're going to play hypotheticals, I would say its doubtful that we win two more games the way Rask & the rest of their team were playing right now.

For the offseason, Letang is tricky - he's inconsistant obviously and has some real brain farts - but there is some elite talent there he and can absolutely control games at times. He's also just coming into his prime and should only get better. It was clear to me that the Pens were a different team when he was out of the lineup this year.

For the rest of the team - I think MAF is gone. I also believe the blueline needs upgraded - either through trades or Despres etc. I thought Engo played as well as he could, but I don't think he should be on the ice in a playoff game, unless there are 2-3 injuries to other defensmen. I'm definately an Engo fan so I hope they can keep him around in the regular season and for some depth in the playoffs.

Iggy is another interesting situation - I'm hoping the Pens can bring him back, but I'm very biased there...
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Factorial on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:55 am

Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building. They could as easily be up 3-1 in this series right now as they are golfing. Granted, they're golfing. I just don't see a gigantic roster shake up, myself. There will be changes, maybe even some big ones, but I think those changes will be more about the cap than about blowing up an ECF roster.

Again, I guess it depends on what one means by "blow it up". I take that to mean moving key pieces out of the locker room. I think that's a mistake.


Thanks to Guinness for bringing some sanity to this thread.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pcm on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:58 am

I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to keeping Letang. You simply do not trade this kind of talent, speed, skill. I think Blysma's system is awful for him, as it encourages reckless play. Have him play in a more responsible system with a coach who will hold him accountable and teach him, then you may very well have the best defensman in the league.

And I don't know where people are getting a $7m+ salary demand from. His market value is much closer to $6m. I forsee 8 years @ $6.25m per.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby KG on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:03 am

Roy would go all in to get his hands on MAF and Letang (french Canadians stick together!). Possible blockbuster with Avs?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pcm on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:05 am

To me, you change the coach, and you change the supporting cast to play a more responsible style. Use the opportunity to get younger, faster, more balanced.

I'm all for trading Kunitz, especially if it means we can keep Dupuis. I'd also trade Fleury, Niskanen, Kennedy, and Glass.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:06 am

Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building.


THEY GOT SWEPT. WE SCORED TWICE (0 FOR 15 ON THE POWERPLAY)

We were run out of the building in every facet.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:09 am

pcm wrote:To me, you change the coach, and you change the supporting cast to play a more responsible style. Use the opportunity to get younger, faster, more balanced.

I'm all for trading Kunitz, especially if it means we can keep Dupuis. I'd also trade Fleury, Niskanen, Kennedy, and Glass.


Kennedy is a free agent. Isn't glass too? Too lazy to look up. Kunitz isn't going to get a good return. Why would you trade him? He's an excellent value.

Niskanen isn't going to get dealt ether because he kinda sucks.

Either Letang or Malkin are gone this offseason. You can't keep both. The cap is not eleventy-billion dollars.

Big changes ahead, and it's not just coaching.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bh on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:17 am

Defence21 wrote:On defense, you keep Martin and Orpik together. Hang on to Murray and pair with Niskanen as the third grouping. Promote Despres to the second unit and acquire someone to help ease him along. Lose Engelland, and re-sign Eaton as a 7th on the cheap.
Defense wins in the playoffs, and THAT is the not in any way shape or form a good defense. Niskanen will not be back. He was awful. Engelland did better than him. Orpik is pretty much washed up. He needs to be 5-6 guy at this stage. I guess we can hope that Despres and Bort step up and make some strides next year, but if we lose Letang, we NEED to get someone else either through a trade or through FA. I feel like Martin and Murry are the only 2 worth having right now. Maybe Engelland. I'm for keeping Letang IF he takes a decent contract and IF Shero feels a new coach could reign him in and help him play better. Right now his game is a train-wreck.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:20 am

pens2005 wrote:
Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building.


THEY GOT SWEPT. WE SCORED TWICE (0 FOR 15 ON THE POWERPLAY)

We were run out of the building in every facet.

It was an interesting series from the perspective that *both* points can be made.

Certainly in a series where you're swept, where the most prolific team in the league scores a total of two goals and where your PP goes 0-15, you were humiliated.

However, outside of giving up in game two, the Pens were in every game until the final buzzer.

You could easily make both arguments. (and not be wrong)

Me? I'm so horribly disappointed right now that I'm going with humiliated. But if you asked me again in a month I may argue otherwise.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bh on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:25 am

pens2005 wrote:
pcm wrote:To me, you change the coach, and you change the supporting cast to play a more responsible style. Use the opportunity to get younger, faster, more balanced.

I'm all for trading Kunitz, especially if it means we can keep Dupuis. I'd also trade Fleury, Niskanen, Kennedy, and Glass.


Kennedy is a free agent. Isn't glass too? Too lazy to look up. Kunitz isn't going to get a good return. Why would you trade him? He's an excellent value.

Niskanen isn't going to get dealt ether because he kinda sucks.

Either Letang or Malkin are gone this offseason. You can't keep both. The cap is not eleventy-billion dollars.

Big changes ahead, and it's not just coaching.

You know... everyone sits there and complains about TK. Then after he shows his worth in the playoffs here, everyone is complaining that he's not playing. TK is a RFA. He currently makes 2 mil per year. IDK what Shero will offer him, but I think he is a valuable player that I would like to see back. Our third line SUCKED this year. Morrow Iginla and Sutter does not look like the third line of a winning team. Cooke TK and Staal does. We need to upgrade our lower lines. No to Iginla, no to Morrow. Get rid of Adams, Glass, Big Mac, Jussi, and maybe Cooke.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bh on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:34 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:It was an interesting series from the perspective that *both* points can be made.

Certainly in a series where you're swept, where the most prolific team in the league scores a total of two goals and where your PP goes 0-15, you were humiliated.

However, outside of giving up in game two, the Pens were in every game until the final buzzer.

You could easily make both arguments. (and not be wrong)

Me? I'm so horribly disappointed right now that I'm going with humiliated. But if you asked me again in a month I may argue otherwise.

I can see both points as well. I felt that Rask was the biggest difference. A little luck, a few mistakes by the B's and we're still in this. But as it is, we're out in 4.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:45 am

I'm not advocating big changes besides Bylsma because of the post-season failures, but the fact of the matter is the cap will force change for this team dramatically. The Pens had this past season and the upcoming season to win the Cup with the group they have. The cap is 64.3 million this season. They will have challenges, but are OK this season becaue Malkin/Letang are still on current contract. I for one, don't think Malkin should get much more than Crosby, if not the same. Letang on the otherhand is guaranteed to get at least 5mil, and more likely 6-7mil range. The cap is almost certain to be the same 64.3 million for the following season, 2014-2015.

2014-2015 salaries
==============
Crosby 8.7mil
Malkin 9mil (esitmate; zero chance of being lower than 8.7mil)
Neal 5mil
Martin 5mil
Fleury 5mil
Bennett 900K
============
33.6million for 6 players Pens will have Sutter and Despres as RFAs next season
If they resign Letang, that's a minimum of 6mil a season, which pushes the payroll to just under 40mil for 7 players.

Finding 15+ players for 24 million isn't going to work. I don't think they will have the cap room to trade for a Bobby Ryan. If the Pens are dead set on keeping Crosby and Malkin, they are going to have to go back to the cheap top 6 rental model. Find a cheap winger for Malkin-Neal line. Play Bennett as cheap winger with Crosby.

I still don't see Fleury being traded, the Pens would need to get a goalie in return still in their mid to early twenties to build around. Markstrom in FL is RFA, just like Bernier. Those two are probably the best two young goalies to take a chance and try to mold into the franchise goalie. Doesn't make sense to get a Luongo or Miller or other goalie in his 30s who is older than Fleury and leaves them with no long term solution.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby nastystang05 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:49 am

1. Come to terms with vigneault sp?
2. Fire DB
3.trade letang for a killing speculate what you will.
4. Keep Malkin at all cost.
5. New goaltending coach to work with the new defensive minded system to see if that aides fleury if not then search for new goaltender.
6. Resign Murray.
7. Promote Bennett full time.
8. Resign Dupers.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Crankshaft on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:55 am

Eismann wrote:Tipett.

Tippett.

Tippet.

Tipet.

TP.
T.


If this guy can make Mike Smith look like a world beater, just think what he could do with Fleury.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:22 am

SoupOrSam wrote:Paul Martin is the only true competent defenseman we have. All of the others lose their freaking brains when it matters most. End of story.

Man is he good. He came back this year an showed why he was so highly touted. His hockey IQ is off the charts and he just always makes the right play. If he scored 10-15 more points a season he's be in the Norris discussion. He's just a rock back there and I'm happy he's a Pen.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby owtahear on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:23 am

1) I have defended Bylsma and I do like the more offensive style that he coaches. But...but....I mean another year, another year of no answers, except tweaking 4th lines and 6th defensemen, his refusal to use Iginla the right way....just got to go. With guys like Ruff, Vigneault and others out there, there would be no shortage of solid candidates. So I am now in favor of firing Bylsma. Completely unemotional and non reactionary, just it makes sense. As much as I would want him to stay. Just makes sense. The problem is.....if you do this, you need to do it quick and get another coach in here so you know how to configure the team to match what they want to do.

2) If you are firing DB for playoff failures then.............it is also a no brainer to try and trade, if not buy out MAF. He has by far the worst save percentage and GAA of any goalie who has played more than one series since 2009. I don't know what happens when it gets to the playoffs, but he melts. You just can't tie up $5 million in salary on this. So he has to move and unfortunately, we are now the Flyers with questions in goal.

3) The Salary Cap combined with the last few playoffs make it unaffordable and not smart to retain both Letang and Malkin. If Geno takes Sid money, then no brainer to resign him. Trading Letang is the smart decision. He will bring alot in return, and some of the Pens organeyezational weaknesses (young forwards) could be addressed by trading Letang. Also, we have been drafting puck moving defensemen, so you need to start relying on the Despres' of the world and understanding Harrington, Pouillet and Matta are in the pipeline hopefully sooner than later. If Malkin wants to move, well then it is blown up and again you can get a bounty for him.

4) No way retain Cooke. He is just too much trouble than he is worth. Stuff follows him, and then it puts guys like Sid in jeapordy. I can guarentee you he will not be offered. I would try and resign Duper, just because he can play on any line, any situation, and do it well.

5) IPossibly if Morrow would be cheap, I can see resigning him. I think Iggy goes elsewhere. It is time this organization gives Bennett a top 6 role on a consistent basis. This is another criticism of HCDB, his refusal to to use the young talent, so when it came playoff time, they would have been more experienced.

I do think it is too early to speculate trading player X for player Y, but say a trade of Letang for Bobby Ryan, would still be absorbing some salary.
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