So, Sidney Crosby...

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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby canaan on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:49 pm

Oooh a Kenny Melvin thread
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:50 pm

Not sure what the issue is. He's a sore loser who acts petulantly when frustrated. So did Mario. Doesn't really impact how I view him. He's still the best in the game.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby bhaw on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:55 pm

This isn't a popular opinion and requires more than just lip service and cliches, but two things going on:

1. Crosby didn't play well
2. The Bruins had us figured out in game 1 and we did nothing to change it

Sid should have been better, but he was set up to fail based on the Pens' refusal to do anything beyond status quo. Watch game 1 and game 4 again (if you care to). Same thing was happening. Bruins backed off the blue line with 2 defenders to allow our forward (usually Malkin or Crosby) to skate into the center of the ice entering the offensive zone. As soon as they hit the blue line, both defensemen converged on the puck carrier (b/c we don't have anyone supporting on the boards, everyone is behind trying to criss cross and create openings that way). At the same time at least 1, if not 2, of the forwards on the Bs were converging from the back side. It enveloped the puck carrier giving him no options to get to the net (unless they manage to beat 4 guys) and made our drop passes damn near impossible b/c of the back side support to take it away or pick up the dropped puck. This happened over and over and over.

Our only other answer was to weakly chip the puck in, but the Bs did a great job at eliminating the chipping player from the play and having 2 guys get low to collect the puck and provide an outlet. The few times we managed to gain the zone, the Bs just pushed us to the boards, pinned the puck carrier and had a 2nd guy swoop in for the puck.

The Pens literally did nothing to change throughout the series. It had Sid totally hemmed in. Shame on the coaching staff for not trying to free him up with any other strategy and just relying on his talent to prevail. Unfortunately even Sid isn't good enough to beat 3 guys, especially with the obstruction that was allowed, which the Bs took full advantage of (while the Pens didn't for some reason).

This doesn't absolve Sid, but it's not as simple as "Sid played bad."
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:58 pm

bhaw wrote:This isn't a popular opinion and requires more than just lip service and cliches, but two things going on:

1. Crosby didn't play well
2. The Bruins had us figured out in game 1 and we did nothing to change it

Sid should have been better, but he was set up to fail based on the Pens' refusal to do anything beyond status quo. Watch game 1 and game 4 again (if you care to). Same thing was happening. Bruins backed off the blue line with 2 defenders to allow our forward (usually Malkin or Crosby) to skate into the center of the ice entering the offensive zone. As soon as they hit the blue line, both defensemen converged on the puck carrier (b/c we don't have anyone supporting on the boards, everyone is behind trying to criss cross and create openings that way). At the same time at least 1, if not 2, of the forwards on the Bs were converging from the back side. It enveloped the puck carrier giving him no options to get to the net (unless they manage to beat 4 guys) and made our drop passes damn near impossible b/c of the back side support to take it away or pick up the dropped puck. This happened over and over and over.

Our only other answer was to weakly chip the puck in, but the Bs did a great job at eliminating the chipping player from the play and having 2 guys get low to collect the puck and provide an outlet. The few times we managed to gain the zone, the Bs just pushed us to the boards, pinned the puck carrier and had a 2nd guy swoop in for the puck.

The Pens literally did nothing to change throughout the series. It had Sid totally hemmed in. Shame on the coaching staff for not trying to free him up with any other strategy and just relying on his talent to prevail. Unfortunately even Sid isn't good enough to beat 3 guys, especially with the obstruction that was allowed, which the Bs took full advantage of (while the Pens didn't for some reason).

This doesn't absolve Sid, but it's not as simple as "Sid played bad."


Totally agree. I'm not saying Sid played well, but I'm also not saying that he deserves to be stripped of his title of best player in the world. That's just insane.

As far as your second point goes, I also agree, and we'll see what comes of that...
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby DayWalker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:06 am

Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitney or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.
Last edited by DayWalker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby ivand87 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:07 am

Hey Getting to our Game - you are an absolute embarrassment. Jump off a bridge please.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Antonio on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:08 am

DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.

i hate Whitey
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby topshelf on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:10 am

DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.


Sid can be criticized all day. It's just the talk of him not being the best, or one of the best, that's insane.

Hans Jonsson... ugh.

What about Chris Tamer?
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby DayWalker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:10 am

Antonio wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.

i hate Whitey


:thumb:
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby DayWalker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:14 am

topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.


Sid can be criticized all day. It's just the talk of him not being the best, or one of the best, that's insane.

Hans Jonsson... ugh.

What about Chris Tamer?


He is still one of the best, so anybody who says that is a moron. But, that said, he has been deeply disappointing far too often of late in the playoffs. If you want to be compared to great playoff performers like Lemieux, Jagr, Messier, Gretzky, and Sakic, you have to play like it. In the last three season-ending series he has played in, he has been trash. People would justifiably castigate Malkin for playing that way (and he has, unfortunately), so it is high time Crosby receives similar criticism, especially when he is held to the highest standard.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:26 am

Getting To My Game wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.


Did you watch hockey in the 90s? Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, etc. were practically gangtackled in the neutral zone and still found a way to fight through it and get their points.


Lemieux in his prime probably had 6 inches in height and probably 25 pounds on Sid--maybe 30, since Sid's lost 10 pounds because of his broken jaw.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Staggy on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:27 am

Sid had a terrible series. This has nothing to do with his status as the best player in the world. How'd the other players who could be in the discussion do?

Geno? Had his ups and downs in the playoffs, was greatly out produced by Sid in regular season
Stamkos? He's made the playoffs once in 5 seasons
Ovie? 2 points in 7 games
Datsyul? 2 in 7 versus the Hawks
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Eismann on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:30 am

Antonio wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.

i hate Whitey


Image
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby neophool on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:34 am

slappybrown wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.

No clue what you're saying here


EDIT: i read "No clue what you're saying here" as "You have no clue what you're saying here" my bad. I guess this is in reponse to whoever said that i had no clue in response to you stating your confusion. What can i say, the Pens losing makes me cranky and illiterate.

I've watched Penguins games back as far as Mario and Jagr, so whoever lumped me into a condesending "new age" fan can also explain why i'm so far off base.

If you are implying I think that blanketing Sid thru the neutral zone with coverage and shutting down his east west passes is the same as going waterskiing on Marios back and tackling Jagr, then I apologize - that is not the case.

Containing Sid is worked into a team defensive system like the one the Bruins play much easier then containing Malkin. To me, its really as simple as Malkin being bigger and the most game-breaking (as in breaking a team's defensive system) player in the world. His skill, speed, and wingspan make him nearly impossible to stop consistently enough to shut down. He simply attacks defensive systems way more then Sid.
Last edited by neophool on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby pressure=9Pa on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:34 am

DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.


Sid can be criticized all day. It's just the talk of him not being the best, or one of the best, that's insane.

Hans Jonsson... ugh.

What about Chris Tamer?


He is still one of the best, so anybody who says that is a moron. But, that said, he has been deeply disappointing far too often of late in the playoffs. If you want to be compared to great playoff performers like Lemieux, Jagr, Messier, Gretzky, and Sakic, you have to play like it. In the last three season-ending series he has played in, he has been trash. People would justifiably castigate Malkin for playing that way (and he has, unfortunately), so it is high time Crosby receives similar criticism, especially when he is held to the highest standard.



It is as unfair to select the last three losing series as it would be to pick the last three winning series. If you look at the last 3 playoff seasons Crosby has played in, he's compiled 34 games played. In those 34, he's scored 16 goals and picked up 26 assists. Those numbers might not be Lemieux-eque, but they are hardly "trash".
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Antonio on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:34 am

Lt. Dish wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.


Did you watch hockey in the 90s? Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, etc. were practically gangtackled in the neutral zone and still found a way to fight through it and get their points.


Lemieux in his prime probably had 6 inches in height and probably 25 pounds on Sid--maybe 30, since Sid's lost 10 pounds because of his broken jaw.

yup... I often wonder what he would be if he had lemieuxs size and could combine it with his skills and work ethic..
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby DayWalker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:41 am

pressure=9Pa wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
topshelf wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Since Sidney Crosby apparently simply can't ever be criticized in some quarters, how about we just blame Ryan Whitey or Dick Tarnstrom? Hans Jonsson?

I know I will feel better, and so will you.


Sid can be criticized all day. It's just the talk of him not being the best, or one of the best, that's insane.

Hans Jonsson... ugh.

What about Chris Tamer?


He is still one of the best, so anybody who says that is a moron. But, that said, he has been deeply disappointing far too often of late in the playoffs. If you want to be compared to great playoff performers like Lemieux, Jagr, Messier, Gretzky, and Sakic, you have to play like it. In the last three season-ending series he has played in, he has been trash. People would justifiably castigate Malkin for playing that way (and he has, unfortunately), so it is high time Crosby receives similar criticism, especially when he is held to the highest standard.



It is as unfair to select the last three losing series as it would be to pick the last three winning series. If you look at the last 3 playoff seasons Crosby has played in, he's compiled 34 games played. In those 34, he's scored 16 goals and picked up 26 assists. Those numbers might not be Lemieux-eque, but they are hardly "trash".


Yeah, but he has four goals in his last three season-ending series. That is trash for a player of his stature and salary.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Guinness on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:54 am

Getting To My Game wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.


Did you watch hockey in the 90s? Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, etc. were practically gangtackled in the neutral zone and still found a way to fight through it and get their points.


Per Netwolf's twitter feed, Lemieux and Jagr had 1 goal between them in the '96 conference finals against Florida.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Scott on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:25 am

Guinness wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.


Did you watch hockey in the 90s? Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, etc. were practically gangtackled in the neutral zone and still found a way to fight through it and get their points.


Per Netwolf's twitter feed, Lemieux and Jagr had 1 goal between them in the '96 conference finals against Florida.
Yeah, but the Pens scored 12 goals from other players in that series.
Please don't even compare.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Guinness on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:55 am

Scott wrote:
Guinness wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
neophool wrote:Crosby's style is the type of style you plan to shut down in the playoffs. Malkin's style is the type of game you HOPE doesn't kill you. Hence Malkin's billion good chances and Sid getting donkey bonked every inch of the ice.


Did you watch hockey in the 90s? Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, etc. were practically gangtackled in the neutral zone and still found a way to fight through it and get their points.


Per Netwolf's twitter feed, Lemieux and Jagr had 1 goal between them in the '96 conference finals against Florida.
Yeah, but the Pens scored 12 goals from other players in that series.
Please don't even compare.


Pay attention - GTMG said they always found ways to get their points. I'm as big a Lemieux fan as anyone, but there were times when he was relatively shut down.

The point is, these guys are human.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Southern Fan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:28 am

Kunitz had about 6 or 7 great opportunities to score in the first three games, including the first shift in game two before the Letang turnover. If he buries those shots and Crosby has seven assists, does this thread exist. His line brought back nightmares of the Surovy Oulette line in his rookie year.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby jamespensfan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:40 am

This is a moronic thread starting with the initial
post.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Jesse on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:16 am

If you're ashamed and embarrassed to call him your captain, there are 29 other NHL teams to choose from. One of them might suit you really well.

Can anyone give even an iota of credit to the Bruins? Crosby had what, 5 scoring chances last night? He did everything he could to beat some amazing one on one coverage from Bergeron, he threw everything he had at Rask, and Rask played the series of his life.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby Steve on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:31 am

Getting To My Game wrote:No, this is not going to be some ridiculous thread.


I disagree.

The stats, yeah they don't lie, he didn't produce offensively. But to call him unfocused, or if you thought he dove and whined his way through this series, or didn't show any effort - well, i'm not sure where that is coming from. This is stuff I hear from Caps fans when things aren't going well with 87.
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Re: So, Sidney Crosby...

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:37 am

Steve wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:No, this is not going to be some ridiculous thread.


I disagree.

The stats, yeah they don't lie, he didn't produce offensively. But to call him unfocused, or if you thought he dove and whined his way through this series, or didn't show any effort - well, i'm not sure where that is coming from. This is stuff I hear from Caps fans when things aren't going well with 87.


His effort in games 1-2, and part of 3 was questionable
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