You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:12 am

shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:As I've stated before, what I like about Bennett is that he can play in a Top 6 role, but he's also savvy and good enough to play on the 3rd line. In fact, I think I'd rather have him on Sutter's wing for now.


i don't think him skating around by himself in the offensive zone is the best way to cultivate his talents. sutter doesn't play nice with his linemates. stick someone more resilient with him - not a guy who still needs a little coddling.


There is no evidence that Sutter doesn't ever play nice with his linemates, he just doesn't play well with Cooke, Kennedy and Glass. Too small of a sample size.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:13 am

DelPen wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:As I've stated before, what I like about Bennett is that he can play in a Top 6 role, but he's also savvy and good enough to play on the 3rd line. In fact, I think I'd rather have him on Sutter's wing for now.


i don't think him skating around by himself in the offensive zone is the best way to cultivate his talents. sutter doesn't play nice with his linemates. stick someone more resilient with him - not a guy who still needs a little coddling.


There is no evidence that Sutter doesn't ever play nice with his linemates, he just doesn't play well with Cooke, Kennedy and Glass. Too small of a sample size.


it's not proof, but it's plenty of evidence.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby André on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:16 am

Gaucho, Columbia: Obviously convenient. But the Gagner comparison is way off. Thomas is 39 and coming of a sabbatical. I feel silly having to point that out. Gaucho: How much do you think he'll get?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:42 am

DelPen wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:As I've stated before, what I like about Bennett is that he can play in a Top 6 role, but he's also savvy and good enough to play on the 3rd line. In fact, I think I'd rather have him on Sutter's wing for now.


i don't think him skating around by himself in the offensive zone is the best way to cultivate his talents. sutter doesn't play nice with his linemates. stick someone more resilient with him - not a guy who still needs a little coddling.


There is no evidence that Sutter doesn't ever play nice with his linemates, he just doesn't play well with Cooke, Kennedy and Glass. Too small of a sample size.


Considering what Staal did with 2 of those guys, you have to wonder. I am definitely not a Sutter fan so far. He is a turnover machine and simply cannot cycle like a solid 3rd liner does. Really need to see him step up his head game this year.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 am

André wrote:Gaucho, Columbia: Obviously convenient. But the Gagner comparison is way off. Thomas is 39 and coming of a sabbatical. I feel silly having to point that out. Gaucho: How much do you think he'll get?


Just kidding about Gagner. Not sure what TT might get, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if some desperate team offered him $5+ million.

Also, I don't like known arseholes on my team.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 am

Gaucho wrote:In fact, I think I'd rather have him on Sutter's wing for now.


I like Bennet on Sutter's wing as well. Sutter isn't a playmaker with the puck, but he has a good shot. TK-Sutter didn't mesh well because both can shoot but neither can effectively pass. Bennet is actually a playmaker with the puck, and for the 2-3 games Morrow-Sutter-Bennet were playing with each other, Sutter was much more effective. The pens don't need 3 scoring lines, but adding Bennet to that line can provide more scoring depth while keeping it defensively responsible. I think there still needs to be a physical presence added to that line to make it more effective, though.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:41 am

Kennedy worked on the RW with Staal because coming into the zone Staal passed from his forehand being a lefty and Cooke did the dirty work. Kennedy looked like garbage also because of this, hopefully his center in SJ is a lefty.

Sutter is a righty, In Carolina his LW was the shooter. Who played LW with Sutter this year? Cooke? Glass? Morrow? Too slow to get to passes and can't finish if they do.

I think Boychuk looked good with Sutter in the maybe one game he played on the 3rd line and Sutter also looked good. If you can get a shooter like Bennett on Sutter's LW then the two of them could really elevate each other's games.

Hopefully D'Agostini can be a guy who forechecks like crazy with speed and can hit. That's what Sutter needs on his RW. It's also why shifting Iginla or Dupuis down to the 3rd line RW also never would have worked.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:34 pm

DelPen wrote:Kennedy worked on the RW with Staal because coming into the zone Staal passed from his forehand being a lefty and Cooke did the dirty work. Kennedy looked like garbage also because of this, hopefully his center in SJ is a lefty.

Sutter is a righty, In Carolina his LW was the shooter. Who played LW with Sutter this year? Cooke? Glass? Morrow? Too slow to get to passes and can't finish if they do.

I think Boychuk looked good with Sutter in the maybe one game he played on the 3rd line and Sutter also looked good. If you can get a shooter like Bennett on Sutter's LW then the two of them could really elevate each other's games.

Hopefully D'Agostini can be a guy who forechecks like crazy with speed and can hit. That's what Sutter needs on his RW. It's also why shifting Iginla or Dupuis down to the 3rd line RW also never would have worked.


From what I've read in the D'Agostini thread, that doesn't sound like him at all.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby taz71 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:24 pm

Bennett needs to learn to play LW or Neal needs to learn to play RW. Wouldn't hurt if both could learn to switch things up.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:30 pm

taz71 wrote:Bennett needs to learn to play LW or Neal needs to learn to play RW. Wouldn't hurt if both could learn to switch things up.


Doesn't Neal play RW now?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby meecrofilm on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Yeah.... the 2nd line at times was Bennett-Malkin-Neal. So, yeah.....
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:48 pm

Also...Neal switched from LW to RW at the beginning of the 11-12 season. :pop:
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:59 pm

Gagne will sign for like $1.5 or $2M probably, not $4M. He'll also probably return to Philadelphia. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Thomas doesn't get more than a training camp invite...
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:01 am

mikey287 wrote:Gagne will sign for like $1.5 or $2M probably, not $4M. He'll also probably return to Philadelphia. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Thomas doesn't get more than a training camp invite...


Sam Gagner?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:02 am

MRandall25 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Gagne will sign for like $1.5 or $2M probably, not $4M. He'll also probably return to Philadelphia. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Thomas doesn't get more than a training camp invite...


Sam Gagner?


Oops, assumed that it was Simon because Sam isn't a UFA and Simon is. Simon is a LW and Sam isn't. My mistake.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Crankshaft on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:23 pm

Now that the off season is winding down, this is how I hope things shake out...

- Trade Matt Niskanan for a draft pick. With signing Scuderi, this bumped Despres out of the top four. I give Despres the role Niskanan had on this team, which should help him develop nicely. That gives him 18-20 minutes a game total with time on the power play. You will probably be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for Nisky since puck moving defensemen are going for a premium right now.

- I re-sign Jeffery and Bortuzzo with the money free'd up from moving Niskanan. That gives me $1.1 million in cap space to start the year.

- TOP SIX - I know it's blasphemy but I broke up Kunitz and Crosby. Mainly because I think Beau Bennett is going to develop into what James Neal has turned into for Malkin. Also, Malkin's line missed that grit that Kunitz brought 2 years ago when he played with them when Crosby was injured. I'll take a hit in Kunitz production (if any) if that means elevating the game of Malkin, Neal who need a guy like Kunitz on their line and Bennett, who is a RW by trade. I truly feel like Bennett can be a Hossa-lite, and Crosby did well with Dupuis on LW and Hossa on RW.

- BOTTOM SIX - I thought about moving Jokinen for the cap relief but he's too valuable because he can penalty kill, good face-off ability and he's insurance if Crosby or Malkin go down. I kept him off the top-2 lines because he seems to do better when he can carry the offense for a line, which is why I think he'll be a great fit for Sutter. Brandon can focus on the shutdown part and Jokinen can work his magic offensively. This line becomes more of a scoring line than a traditional shutdown line. As long as everyone stays healthy, I view Sutter and Jokinen as the mainstays on the 3rd line and we'll cycle between D'agostini and Jeffery on the 3rd line. Vitale is my full time 4th line center and I cycle Glass and Adams as 4th line RW. This ensures that I'll have enough penalty killers on any given night and it keeps Adams and Glass from playing on the same line. I don't want my bottom six players getting too comfortable. Call it the Talbot effect if you will. I want these guys to stay on their toes because they may be in the press box the next game.

- DEFENSE - This is easy. Martin/Orpik & Letang/Scuderi. Despres takes over Nisky's role on the 2nd PP. I rotate between Bortuzzo and Engellend to start the year.

As long as everyone stays healthy, I look to bring in some bottom-six help at the deadline.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt D'Agostini ($0.550m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.578m) /

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,138,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,161,667
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Nice job Crankshaft. I'd the same except, I'd buyout Glass, and re-up Morrow for a 4th line/3rd line fill in roll.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Crankshaft on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Nizzy wrote:Nice job Crankshaft. I'd the same except, I'd buyout Glass, and re-up Morrow for a 4th line/3rd line fill in roll.


I thought about that but I decided to roll the dice with what we have for now and use the open cap later in the season for someone else, if needed. Guys like Morrow always come available later in the year. Unless Morrow takes an identical cap hit as Glass, which I doubt.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Defence21 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:05 am

Nizzy wrote:Nice job Crankshaft. I'd the same except, I'd buyout Glass, and re-up Morrow for a 4th line/3rd line fill in roll.

Buyouts are over and can't be considered until next summer pre-free agency. Regardless, why buy out a player making just $1 million when he can be buried in the minors with minimal ramifications? He's not going to save that much, and there could be bigger fish to fry next summer.

All that being said, Shero is an upstanding GM and is willing to own up to his mistakes and honor the contracts, even if they didn't work out favorably. He won't buy out anyone.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:44 am

let me preface by saying I am obviously no expert.
BUT, I don't see how shero is going to make things work cap wise for this upcoming season. He needs to re-sign both bort and Jeffrey, plus another depth forward and he currently sits on about 150,000 in cap space.
Some have suggested the pens trade niski. But I don't think that clears up enough money. You would free up niski's 2.3 million (which is very reasonable for what he brings) and you would be left with about 2.4 million to sign bort, Jeffrey, and another forward. That would give you 14 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies.

when I look at the pens roster, there are certain players who you can almost certainly say shero will not trade.
sid, geno, kunitz, duper, neal, adams, and sutter from the forwards
letang, and scuds from the defense

from there the only players left are
jussi, glass, bb, d'agonstini, and vitale from the forwards
martin, orpik, niski, depress, and engel from the defense

if you go off the assumption that I made earlier that niski's 2.3 million is not enough to add to the 150,000 available in cap space to sign three more players then you would have to eliminate the players from the above list that are making less than that. Which leaves us with no forwards at all and only two defensemen.... Orpik and Martin. This is where the real delema is. Because the pens can not afford to lose either of these players. They both ate up most of the minutes last season.

which brings me to the last possible solution. MAF.
I really don't see any other way.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby no name on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:05 am

- TOP SIX - I know it's blasphemy but I broke up Kunitz and Crosby. Mainly because I think Beau Bennett is going to develop into what James Neal has turned into for Malkin. Also, Malkin's line missed that grit that Kunitz brought 2 years ago when he played with them when Crosby was injured. I'll take a hit in Kunitz production (if any) if that means elevating the game of Malkin, Neal who need a guy like Kunitz on their line and Bennett, who is a RW by trade. I truly feel like Bennett can be a Hossa-lite, and Crosby did well with Dupuis on LW and Hossa on RW.


The Crosby line gets a bit soft without Kunitz on it and Kuny is Sids preferred winger. Bennette is going to be a good winger but Sid is in that playmaker mode right now, and by trade Bennette was always said to be more a playmaker than goal scorer. I do agree Bennette has the Hossa like 2 way game that is a great asset. So I would think Bennette and his 2 way play will be valuable with Malkin and Neal. Kunitz is such a good piece to have he makes anyline he is one better.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby brwi on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:30 am

Let's buy-out a guy making 1 mil a year? Seriously?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby sil on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:32 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:which brings me to the last possible solution. MAF.
I really don't see any other way.


There are other ways, and there pretty much have to be as Shero probably doesn't want to trade MAF, nor can he easily do it.

Let's say you trade Niskanen for a 3rd line winger to fill our need...perhaps one that makes less than him, but is a proven NHL'er and fits in with what the pens do? Niskanen is set to be a UFA next season, so he provides flexibility that way...so maybe you look to trade for a forward who fits the same bill?

Here's a hypothetical...Niskanen to Vancouver for Jannik Hansen. Both are UFA's next year...both are capable NHL'ers. Hansen is about $1,000,000 cheaper against the cap. Now this probably isn't realistic unless Vancouver really wanted a Niskanen type as they supposedly want to sign Hansen long term...but IMO he'd fit in really well with what Byslma and Shero want on the third line. You'd have Jeffrey and D'Agostini (and whoever else...Uher?, Kuhnhackl?, Megna?) battle it out for the other forward spot...and you're set for opening night. Bortuzzo and Engellend round out the D, and perhaps one gets moved if Dumoulin's camp is impressive.

The way I see it, Niskanen is one of those guys who can fill top-4 for a time, but he simply isn't a regular top-4 D-man. $2,300,000 for a #5D on a cap-strapped team probably isn't the best recipe. I think trading him would provide more flexibility than you probably think.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:08 pm

brwi wrote:Let's buy-out a guy making 1 mil a year? Seriously?


Poor choice of words, really. I meant bury his contract if its needed at the deadline.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Dan H on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:54 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:let me preface by saying I am obviously no expert.
BUT, I don't see how shero is going to make things work cap wise for this upcoming season. (snip)

There are at least three possible routes, assuming capgeek has its cap hits correct:

1. Trade Niskanen for picks/prospects, sign Bortuzzo and Jeffrey. Gives forwards of 14-87-9, 19-71-18, 36-16-X, 15-46-27, X where D'Agostini and Jeffrey (or maybe somebody who outplays them) are the X's. Defensemen are 7-44, Scuds-58, 47-5/41. Cap space is 1.16 million.
2. Trade Jokinen for picks/prospects or a cheap bottom-6 roster forward. Sign Jeffrey; either let Bortuzzo walk or sign him and try to sneak him through waivers. Forwards are now 14-87-9, 19-71-18, X-16-X, 15-46-27, X with the X's representing D'Agostini, Jeffrey, and an open spot for someone such as Zolnierczyk, MacIntyre or Uher to step up and earn. Defensemen are 7-44, Scuds-58, 47-2, 5. If the extra forward makes about $600k, cap space is about $930k.
3. Don't trade anyone. Re-sign Jeffrey but not Bortuzzo (or try to get Bort through waivers). Bury either Despres or Bennett in WBS to begin the season (no, I don't like this idea either). Working with Bennett buried: forwards are now 14-87-9, 36-71-18, 15-16-X, X-46-27; defensemen are 7-44, Scuds-58, 47-2, 5; if the players in the X's make $500k-$600k the Pens begin the season about $300k under the cap, and figure to clear more space somehow during the season.

I haven't read through this thread thoroughly, so I apologize if this is redundant or if everyone except me is aware of an incorrect figure in capgeek.
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