Fleury's last chance?

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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:54 am

Please don't post every bad goal Fleury let in against the Flyers...I don't think the thread could handle 30 more YouTube videos.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Fast B on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:55 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:If he plays as bad as he did this playoff next playoff then by all means the Pens should dump him ASAP. I would dump him ASAP now personally. I have no faith in him anymore and will never again consider the Pens having any type of goaltender advantage in a playoff series until Fleury comes up with at least a decent playoff series.


Yes, yes, we know.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Daniel87 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:11 am

I can't see Fleury crapping the bed in yet another playoffs next season. If he does, he deserves to be on the hot seat.

Just as this past year was important for Malkin, I think next year will be key for Flower.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby sil on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:02 am

Daniel87 wrote:I can't see Fleury crapping the bed in yet another playoffs next season. If he does, he deserves to be on the hot seat.

Just as this past year was important for Malkin, I think next year will be key for Flower.


How are they still not in the same situation? Both had really good regualar seasons...Malkin has a fantastic regular season. Both had crappy postseasons...MAF's filled with shotty netminding and soft goals...Malkin's filled with blown defense, frustration, and being eaten alive by an 18-year old named Couturier.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby penny lane on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:10 am

steelhammer wrote:
penny lane wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:If he plays as bad as he did this playoff next playoff then by all means the Pens should dump him ASAP. I would dump him ASAP now personally. I have no faith in him anymore and will never again consider the Pens having any type of goaltender advantage in a playoff series until Fleury comes up with at least a decent playoff series.


food for thought; Sid's last great play-off series was against the caps, 2009. ? maybe ottawa 2010.
Collectively they(core) haven't been able to push themselves into championship - kill mode.


Crosby had 19 points in 13 games in the 09-10 playoffs, missed the 10-11 playoffs, and had 8 points in 6 games in the 11-12 playoffs. Pretty far off from the worst in the league and worst all-time performances.


zing...
yet sid couldn't score the goal needed in game six in philly after giroux scored early. I was looking for the clutch goal. From Evgeni or Sidney. Just like folks look for the clutch save.
I think Flower has gotten the message, I think of the players have with the start the off-season moves.
Yes, I included ottawa series as one of sid's best. :D
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby DelPen on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:17 am

If I was playing goal behind the abomination that Bylsma sent out there I'd get distracted too thinking "what the hell did I just see" and let in some bad goals.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Sheriff66 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:37 am

meow wrote:There is a pretty good explaination for Vokoun and for the drafting of goaltenders this year. Vokoun - no way around it, you have to have an NHL capable back-up. Why not go out and get the best available goalie. As for drafting, the goalie cupboard is pretty bare - fill 'er up.


Pretty much this IMO
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Samsdog on Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm

Drafting goalies doesn't spell the end of Fleury and anyone that thinks so doesn't understand how drafting works. Think the Bruins are going to be dumping Rask because they drafted Malcolm Subban? No. They just know that organizational depth is important at every position. You have to prepare for any possibilities, including that Fleury gets injured or moves on or anything like that, and recognize that you have to have bodies to man your system. These guys won't turn pro for a couple years, if at all, at which time chances are Modig, Ehelechner, and who knows who else will be gone. If you never get the rights to a goalie, you never replace those players. It's forward thinking, just like when they drafted Killeen and Pechurskiy. No need to read in things that aren't there.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby tfrizz on Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:52 pm

Samsdog wrote:Drafting goalies doesn't spell the end of Fleury and anyone that thinks so doesn't understand how drafting works. Think the Bruins are going to be dumping Rask because they drafted Malcolm Subban? No. They just know that organizational depth is important at every position. You have to prepare for any possibilities, including that Fleury gets injured or moves on or anything like that, and recognize that you have to have bodies to man your system. These guys won't turn pro for a couple years, if at all, at which time chances are Modig, Ehelechner, and who knows who else will be gone. If you never get the rights to a goalie, you never replace those players. It's forward thinking, just like when they drafted Killeen and Pechurskiy. No need to read in things that aren't there.


Exactly.

The fact of the matter is, the Penguins had no depth in goal - and you may still argue that they don't. They needed to draft some goalies, and they'll likely need to draft a couple in each of the next 2-3 as well. Quality goaltenders are getting harder and harder to come by, which means you're less likely to get one in a trade - you need to draft and develop.

The Pens also need to overhaul their coaching staff in this regards. Last I heard, Meloche was it for the organization. Move Meloche back to full-time scouting (or out completely), and bring in 3-4 new guys - a pro (NHL) goalie coach, an amateur (AHL/ECHL) goalie coach, and a director to oversee things (to start).
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:03 pm

RS on 93.7 this morning said something to the effect of, "we brought in Vokoun to compete for a starting position, not just sit back and play 15 games as backup". He said that he wants some competition for the starting position now. I certainly think that RS has lost a lot of confidence in Fleury and if he craps the bed this playoff then I think he is done in Pittsburgh personally.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:06 pm

He has probably rightfully lost confidence, but even if he trusts in Fleury, its good to create competition for the spot.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:59 pm

Most teams try to employ a healthy competition within their ranks. Look at the Rangers, they have Henrik Lundqvist as their goalie...they could have left Chad Johnson or some other scrub to be the backup, but they got a 1B guy or top-level backup in Martin Biron to do it...again, standard operating procedure.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby columbia on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:06 pm

Assuming that APK's quote is correct, I have a hard time thinking that Sather would get on WFAN and talk about competition for the starting goalie slot.

Spoiler:
Then again, they don't really talk about hockey on WFAN. :)
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby jmh470 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:08 pm

It's my impression that MAF could use a kick in the ass every once in a while to play at his best. If RS truly had lost his confidence in him there wouldn't be a dearth of takers for his contract (especially considering the one Pavelec just signed).

And please, for the love of Christ, the saying "**** the bed" really needs to die a horrible, agonizing death. If you can't find a less disgusting way to phrase something then just don't bother.
Last edited by jmh470 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby steelhammer on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:09 pm

mikey287 wrote:Most teams try to employ a healthy competition within their ranks. Look at the Rangers, they have Henrik Lundqvist as their goalie...they could have left Chad Johnson or some other scrub to be the backup, but they got a 1B guy or top-level backup in Martin Biron to do it...again, standard operating procedure.


Biron's cap hit was $875,000 and he played 38 games over 2 seasons for the Rangers. The price and expectations for Vokoun are much greater.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:10 pm

jmh470 wrote:It's my impression that MAF could use a kick in the ass every once in a while to play at his best. If RS truly had lost his confidence in him there wouldn't have been a dearth of takers for his contract (especially considering the one Pavelec just signed).


I'd say you're incorrect there... Plenty of teams would love to have a goalie like Fleury.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:12 pm

That's not really the point. The premise is that "this is Fleury's last chance and here's why: Vokoun, the draft..." - the response is: nothing we've done is that out of the ordinary. Adding a backup goalie that's in the twilight of his career wouldn't suggest to me that Fleury is a five game losing streak away from being traded for a 2nd round pick...
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Nizzy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:41 pm

MAF looks like junk. I love him so much as a player, but lets be honest he's been so soft.

Facts to me are, we haven't had a defense as good as the 2009 cup team. In 2011 when we lost to Tampa, I really believe if we have one of Malkin or Crosby that we win the East. However the defense still hasn't been as good since 2009....

Won't be MAF's last year on the team. As the starter? Maybe. Shero will let him finish the contract or at least til the last year if he's still so bad. It will take years to find another franchise goaltender in my opinion. Hope he pulls back.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Daniel87 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:14 pm

sil wrote:
Daniel87 wrote:I can't see Fleury crapping the bed in yet another playoffs next season. If he does, he deserves to be on the hot seat.

Just as this past year was important for Malkin, I think next year will be key for Flower.


How are they still not in the same situation? Both had really good regualar seasons...Malkin has a fantastic regular season. Both had crappy postseasons...MAF's filled with shotty netminding and soft goals...Malkin's filled with blown defense, frustration, and being eaten alive by an 18-year old named Couturier.

You really believe that Malkin is in the same situation that he was 12 months ago?
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:32 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:RS on 93.7 this morning said something to the effect of, "we brought in Vokoun to compete for a starting position, not just sit back and play 15 games as backup". He said that he wants some competition for the starting position now. I certainly think that RS has lost a lot of confidence in Fleury and if he craps the bed this playoff then I think he is done in Pittsburgh personally.


He really said that? Well, then, good for him. That's the No BS approach.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:34 am

I also agree that if Fleury falters in the playoffs again, he may not be the starting goalie next year.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby NashvilleCat on Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:31 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
penny lane wrote:Insert last chance , last dance for coach Dan, before Shero, before Flower.


This statement is one that I hope is true. I think Dan is the biggest weakness, but Shero seems to really love Dan.

I agree. Shero seems to love him, he comes across great on TV, and the players love him. But, if potential is what gets coaches fired then there's plenty of ammunition if early exits continue.

On your points on Flower (from the earlier post) he makes a lot of highly visible gaffes in the net and gives up a number of soft goals that create a very bad impression. He's gotten better but he has room to grow. I like him too and I also think his numbers would be better with better defense. With that and seeing what it looks like to have no trustworthy back up this past year it makes sense to get Vokoun.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Nizzy on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:32 pm

No NHL goaltender would be scared losing their job to Brad Thessien when his glove hand was getting beat by a 38 year old Alfreddson's shot.

MAF was unchallenged all year for his spot, never played that many regular season games, helped carry as at key points during the big winning stretch and was simply dead tired mental/physically.

I feel like MAF is the type of player that gets confidence from playing behind a good defense. His best seasons were 08 and 09 cup runs. Our defense simply has not been as good since 09. If you want to blame 2011 vs Tampa on him, you can but its silly to me considering we had almost 20M of offense cap out for the year. Can't get him 1 goal in game 7?

MAF will be back just fine. The defense is the bigger problem.
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby Bathgate on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:45 pm

The Pens organization blames Fleury for the lost to the Flyers.

http://sulia.com/channel/nhl-lockout/f/9a5caf3d-0dde-41c0-bbfc-f241e8280fd2/?source=twitter
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Re: Fleury's last chance?

Postby FreeCandy44 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:00 am

Meh..bullcrap.
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