The Ray Shero Drafting Method

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The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:03 am

I think this is the year that I stop complaining about Ray Shero's inability/reluctance/refusal to select top-end Forwards in the draft, and start subscribing to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. It is frustrating to not have much in the way of forward prospects in the system, but, whether it is their intent or not, I think I finally see the light that what the Pens are doing works. It would appear they are much better are drafting and developing defensemen than forwards. Under Shero, the Pens have drafted the following defensemen:

Matta
Pouliot
Morrow
Harrington
Rogalski
McNeill
Despres
Samuellson
Velischek
Ekbom
D'Agostino
Bortuzzo
Strait
Grant
Muzzin
Sneep

He also inherited Letang, Orpik, Goligoski, Whitney, and now got Domoulin through trade.
I am not very well versed in the status of all these players, but I know Despres, Bortuzzo, and Strait are probably ready for NHL duty now, Muzzin in in LA, Harrington, Morrow, and Domoulin possible 1-3 years as other top end talent, and still have the likes of Matta, Pouliot just drafted, and Samuelsson, D'Agostino, Grant, Velischek, McNeil, etc as 5-7 fill ins down the road. There still isn't going to be room for all of them, so they will be used to obtain assets.

Ryan Whitney became key forward Chris Kunitz
Alex Goligoski became key forward James Neal, plus Niskanen
I am hoping dumping Paul Martin can lead to Parise/Suter.
If guys like Depres, Bortuzzo, etc step in and excel, than next year Orpik is packaged to get a key piece at the trade deadline, before having to re-up him for 4mil or more/less.

Load up on defensemen, use them as they get older and more expensive to get key forward assets. Rinse and repeat.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby steelhammer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:11 am

Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Corvidae on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:35 am

The Ray Shero Drafting Method:

1) Draft defenseman
2) Draft defenseman that played with that first defenseman
3) Sprinkle in an NCAA winger in a later round
4) Smoke cigar
5) Repeat
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby czwalga on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:39 am

steelhammer wrote:Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted



So? If you draft top D men every year, that means the pipeline continues.....
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:15 am

steelhammer wrote:Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted


I believe in the term "pick your battles."

Picking examples where we gained a forward who undoubtedly helped us win the Cup and another where we got a top 5 goal scorer plus a solid 5/6 D man are probably not the best examples to choose.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby steelhammer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:18 am

bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted


I believe in the term "pick your battles."

Picking examples where we gained a forward who undoubtedly helped us win the Cup and another where we got a top 5 goal scorer plus a solid 5/6 D man are probably not the best examples to choose.


So when Crosby in his 30's one of these D-men will finally be developed to trade for a scoring winger? Great long-term strategy.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:24 am

steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted


I believe in the term "pick your battles."

Picking examples where we gained a forward who undoubtedly helped us win the Cup and another where we got a top 5 goal scorer plus a solid 5/6 D man are probably not the best examples to choose.


So when Crosby in his 30's one of these D-men will finally be developed to trade for a scoring winger? Great long-term strategy.


One of the guys drafted this year? Sure. You aren't familiar with the term "pipeline," are you?
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:28 am

Again, how do you take any joy in this team? All you do is complain about everyone and everything this team is about... what a miserable existence.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby steelhammer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:31 am

bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Ryan Whitney:
Drafted - 2002
College - 3 years
Pro - 5 years
Traded in 2009, 7 years after being drafted

Alex Goligoski:
Drafted - 2004
College - 3 years
Pro - 4 years
Traded in 2011, 7 years after being drafted


I believe in the term "pick your battles."

Picking examples where we gained a forward who undoubtedly helped us win the Cup and another where we got a top 5 goal scorer plus a solid 5/6 D man are probably not the best examples to choose.


So when Crosby in his 30's one of these D-men will finally be developed to trade for a scoring winger? Great long-term strategy.


One of the guys drafted this year? Sure. You aren't familiar with the term "pipeline," are you?


Yes, it involves having players on your team with NHL experience who would actually fetch a good return. What did we just get for Michalek? Probably about the same we would get for any other d-man except for Letang? Our only pipleline would be to trade one of the best d-men in hockey in Letang. No thanks.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby steelhammer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:33 am

bhaw wrote:Again, how do you take any joy in this team? All you do is complain about everyone and everything this team is about... what a miserable existence.


And all you do is follow me around on me and quote my posts. What does that say about you?
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:35 am

steelhammer wrote:Yes, it involves having players on your team with NHL experience who would actually fetch a good return. What did we just get for Michalek? Probably about the same we would get for any other d-man except for Letang? Our only pipleline would be to trade one of the best d-men in hockey in Letang. No thanks.


How often do you need a brand new top 6 player? Probably as often as you can develop an NHL defenseman. Goligoski had all of 1.5 years of NHL experience before he fetched us one of the top 5 goal scorers in the league +.

Michalek was not a drafted Dman, but you know that. He is irrelevant to the conversation.

It's not like we are hurting for goal scorers based on our team stats last year.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:36 am

steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:Again, how do you take any joy in this team? All you do is complain about everyone and everything this team is about... what a miserable existence.


And all you do is follow me around on me and quote my posts. What does that say about you?


Last time I quoted you was how long ago? All you can do is relive the past (distant past). What does that say about you where I am the highlight of your year.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Rylan on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:37 am

:pop:
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby bhaw on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:39 am

Rylan wrote::pop:


Quiet you.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby steelhammer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:42 am

bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:Again, how do you take any joy in this team? All you do is complain about everyone and everything this team is about... what a miserable existence.


And all you do is follow me around on me and quote my posts. What does that say about you?


Last time I quoted you was how long ago? All you can do is relive the past (distant past). What does that say about you where I am the highlight of your year.


I don't know and don't care. Goodnight.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby ville5 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:48 am

Dude, talk about sick:

Morrow-DePres
Harrington-Maatta
D'Agostino-Domoulin
Samuelsson-Pouliot
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:29 am

steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
bhaw wrote:Again, how do you take any joy in this team? All you do is complain about everyone and everything this team is about... what a miserable existence.


And all you do is follow me around on me and quote my posts. What does that say about you?


Last time I quoted you was how long ago? All you can do is relive the past (distant past). What does that say about you where I am the highlight of your year.


I don't know and don't care. Goodnight.


Obviously you care enough to keep crying about wingers. If the Pens go out and get Parise on July 1, will your tears become cheers? If we win the Stanley Cup next season with Despres in the line-up, will you come back here and tell us, "I told you so! Shero is a genius!"?

Lets be perfectly and brutally honest. Two of my favorite players on the team were traded yesterday and I think BOTH trades were great. Jordan was not planning on signing here, or if he was, he wanted way too much for a 3rd line center. Shero absolutely got the best deal he could. Sutter is a Staal-like player without the wingspan. Jordan had some great moments here, he will always be remembered in Pens history for one, if not the biggest goal in the Cup run in 09. However, it is time for him to have a bigger role and with Crosby/Malkin here, that's not going to happen. Michalek was dumped because of salary and his very below par play last year. Also, it frees up a spot for Despres and gives the Pens the ability to make a huge pitch for Parise and/or Suter on July 1.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Gaucho on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:32 am

The strategy makes a lot of sense, as the recent years suggest that defensemen make better assets than forwards. Are the people complaining about RS drafting too many dmen the same people that whine about overpaying for Z and PM?
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby columbia on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:36 am

Gaucho wrote:The strategy makes a lot of sense, as the recent years suggest that defensemen make better assets than forwards. Are the people complaining about RS drafting too many dmen the same people that whine about overpaying for Z and PM?


Undoubtedly.

As always, let's talk in about 5 (or more) years and see how this draft works out.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:38 am

If Shero ever was on Wheel of Fortune, he probably wouldn't do very well since he'd only select D.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby columbia on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:39 am

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:If Shero ever was on Wheel of Fortune, he probably wouldn't do very well since he'd only select D.


Or black in roulette. :pop:
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Eismann on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:56 am

I'm all in with the approach in this era.

Tie up the big money with the bigget handful of players: Sid, Geno, Neal, MAF, Tang(?), NewGuy. This is the base of the Pyramid of Make Great Success.

Stock up dmen, develop into good but-not-needed-to-be-spectacular talent. This is the middle of the Pyramid of Make Great Success. They need a simple game and is more tied to the ability of the forwards to get back and support especially in transition.

Acquire/bring up supplementary forwards at low cost; just need to be serviceable. This is the top of the Pyramid of Make Great Success, has the fewest bricks and are the quickest to replace with minimal damage to the rest of the Pyramid of Make Great Success.

In this system, development isn't quite as critical given the talent at the bottom and the nature of the play.

The implication is that any non-big-money talent will be planned to be let go before he gets paid.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Troy Loney on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:21 am

I think they're planning on going with the 2 forwards - 3 defenseman lineup strategy next season.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby Troy Loney on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:27 am

Seriously though, I have no problem with the drafting strategy. Just based on Shero's first round draft record, (not including Jordan Staal which was basically a sure thing) he's drafted two forwards, one complete bust and one project. Both defenseman drafted are almost guaranteed to be regular NHLer's and likely to be impact players at that. So basically unless your in the very top of the draft, there is a good chance of bust with the forward guys, and these defenseman he's getting are guaranteed to be assets for the franchise.
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Re: The Ray Shero Drafting Method

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:58 am

Troy Loney wrote:Seriously though, I have no problem with the drafting strategy. Just based on Shero's first round draft record, (not including Jordan Staal which was basically a sure thing) he's drafted two forwards, one complete bust and one project. Both defenseman drafted are almost guaranteed to be regular NHLer's and likely to be impact players at that. So basically unless your in the very top of the draft, there is a good chance of bust with the forward guys, and these defenseman he's getting are guaranteed to be assets for the franchise.


But how do you have the room for them to develop in the AHL? At some point, they are not going to be in college or juniors, and you are going to have a limited number of spots in WBS to develop them.
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